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Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S
artur777:
how could we understand if there are any technical differences between Turbo and Turbo S? It's really importnat for me as well as I am in the same thinking stage as you are!
Sooner or later we are going to find out but I'm afraid the only difference is software. 
Otherwise Porsche would advertise the difference...I guess.
--
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4
Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S
artur777:
Christian,
if Superleggera is about 31 secs from 0-300, Turbo S is not any slower! Hp level is same! Lets wait test results!
Thats more depending on the gear ratio. If porsche makes the 7 th gear as a Real gear than the performance can go close to 31 sek, if not and Top speed is achieved in 6 th gear, it is going to by Hard.
May 10, 2013 4:04:17 PM
- palenimbus
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Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S
This whole thing boggles the mind.
1. The price difference between the 991 Turbo S and the 997 Turbo S is HUGE and there is no obvious explanation.
2. The Turbo S now is about the same base price as the 458 and the MP4-12C, but with Porsche's extensive options list I wouldn't be suprised if you could option a TurboS higher than the Ferrari or Mclaren.
3. The Price difference between the Turbo and the Turbo S seems to be a total money grab in addition to the above two points.
Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S
RC:
artur777:
how could we understand if there are any technical differences between Turbo and Turbo S? It's really importnat for me as well as I am in the same thinking stage as you are!
Sooner or later we are going to find out but I'm afraid the only difference is software.
Lets ask KresoF1?
May 10, 2013 4:18:03 PM
- Rossi
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Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S
palenimbus:
2. The Turbo S now is about the same base price as the 458 and the MP4-12C, but with Porsche's extensive options list I wouldn't be suprised if you could option a TurboS higher than the Ferrari or Mclaren.
The Turbo S is not only the same base price as a 458, these cars cost the same in reality. Yes, the options are a lot more expensive in Maranello, but basically we have two well equipped cars with the same price.
If you order a 458 stock it won't cost you much more than a 991 Turbo S stock. Of course, if you want the last corner of the cabin clad with leather and all the plastic/alminium items replaced by ridiculously expensive CF, this will cost you a fortune in Maranello, but if you don't go mad with the options, you won't pay much more in Maranello. Same goes for the MP4-12C, but its base price is a bit higher.
Now the big, big question is, can you justify such a price for "only" a Turbo, a car that used to have the same (or slightly better) performance than its exotic rivals, but also was a decent amount cheaper in the past. Even more, if you think about depreciation. You lose some money with a McLaren, you lose quite a lot with a 458, but the Turbo will top that in a negative way.
--
The secret of life is to admire without desiring.
Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S
Rossi:
palenimbus:
2. The Turbo S now is about the same base price as the 458 and the MP4-12C, but with Porsche's extensive options list I wouldn't be suprised if you could option a TurboS higher than the Ferrari or Mclaren.
The Turbo S is not only the same base price as a 458, these cars cost the same in reality. Yes, the options are a lot more expensive in Maranello, but basically we have two well equipped cars with the same price.If you order a 458 stock it won't cost you much more than a 991 Turbo S stock. Of course, if you want the last corner of the cabin clad with leather and all the plastic/alminium items replaced by ridiculously expensive CF, this will cost you a fortune in Maranello, but if you don't go mad with the options, you won't pay much more in Maranello. Same goes for the MP4-12C, but its base price is a bit higher.
Now the big, big question is, can you justify such a price for "only" a Turbo, a car that used to have the same (or slightly better) performance than its exotic rivals, but also was a decent amount cheaper in the past. Even more, if you think about depreciation. You lose some money with a McLaren, you lose quite a lot with a 458, but the Turbo will top that in a negative way.
--
The secret of life is to admire without desiring.
Turbo will be top in depreciation!
Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S
I agree that the Turbo will have the most depreciation, I think they are very aware of the maximum that they can price these models without going into Ferrari and McLaren territory. It's the same way that most of the other manufacturers price their models as well. For example, a loaded C-Class gets into E-Class territory, a loaded E-Class gets in S-Class territory, same as BMW's 3-5-7 series models.
There are a couple tricks that Porsche has over the others, which are:
1) Daily Driver ability - You can daily drive a turbo(s) and put 12-15k on the odometer every year without it drastically affecting value. If the turbo(s) is your 2nd or 3rd sports car than perhaps an exotic is more your speed.
2) Less Flash factor - Porsche models range from $50k - $200+k, but you can get a used Porsche at a very affordable price, this makes the brand more available to the masses, and since the lay person can not tell the differences between model years or even some models, it allows you to drive more under the radar than any Ferrari or McLaren model from any year. Further, if you work in a field that you do not want your employees or colleagues to think you are making too much money, it's hard to drive an exotic any more than on a weekend. Moreover, you can park a Porsche in a parking garage or other area and be far less worried than if you parked your exotic.
These are things that Porsche knows and can use to command these prices. I've been hearing that the car is all-new from the ground up and there's more expensive technology, we have yet to see if that's true or not.
Lastly, the depreciation for Porsche based on the last 997 turbo model is not unbelievable IMO, I ordered a 997 turbo back in late 2006 as an 07 model fully loaded for $155k, I sold it in late 2011 after driving it for 4 years and 8 months for almost $100k. So $55k depreciation (not including tax, fees, and upgrades) isn't terrible to me for putting 37,xxx miles on it.
Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S
RC:
Sooner or later we are going to find out but I'm afraid the only difference is software.
You could be exactly correct. It was common practice in the computer industry to manufacture only one style of actual hardware and software-configure different performance levels. I was surprised and a bit miffed when we ordered a performance upgrade to our HP3000 computer and the technician came out with his laptop and "upgraded" our system with a few key strokes. Then he removed the name plate from our system and replaced it with amore powerful model number.
It wouldn't be the first time if Porsche did this, too.
--
Mike
Carrera GT + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S + Panamera Turbo + BMW Z8 + BMW 3.0 CSi + Bentley Arnage T + GT3 RS 4.0
Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S
W8MM:
RC:
Sooner or later we are going to find out but I'm afraid the only difference is software.You could be exactly correct. It was common practice in the computer industry to manufacture only one style of actual hardware and software-configure different performance levels. I was surprised and a bit miffed when we ordered a performance upgrade to our HP3000 computer and the technician came out with his laptop and "upgraded" our system with a few key strokes. Then he removed the name plate from our system and replaced it with amore powerful model number.
It wouldn't be the first time if Porsche did this, too.
--
Mike
Carrera GT + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S + Panamera Turbo + BMW Z8 + BMW 3.0 CSi + Bentley Arnage T + GT3 RS 4.0
I cant believe this is so easy.... Will be dissapointed if Porsche does the same way
Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S
Mr. V it's a pleasure to have you in our company. Unfortunately, this does happen often in the computer world, and being in the information age, most things that were at one time purely mechanical, are becoming technological. I too, would be miffed if the difference is a software upgrade. Hopefully, soon enough we will learn if this is actually the case or not.
Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S
hussainh1:
Mr. V it's a pleasure to have you in our company. Unfortunately, this does happen often in the computer world, and being in the information age, most things that were at one time purely mechanical, are becoming technological. I too, would be miffed if the difference is a software upgrade. Hopefully, soon enough we will learn if this is actually the case or not.
How will we learn it? Porsche will keep silence
Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S
artur777:
RC:
artur777:
how could we understand if there are any technical differences between Turbo and Turbo S? It's really importnat for me as well as I am in the same thinking stage as you are!
Sooner or later we are going to find out but I'm afraid the only difference is software.
Lets ask KresoF1?
Email to my P source is sended.
Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S
nberry:
WOW! Hopefully the upgrade didn't cost too much.
It was pretty expensive. About the same $ difference as the "upgrade" from Turbo to Turbo S.
--
Mike
Carrera GT + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S + Panamera Turbo + BMW Z8 + BMW 3.0 CSi + Bentley Arnage T + GT3 RS 4.0
May 10, 2013 8:15:23 PM
- CGX car nut
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- Loc: NWI , United States
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Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S
W8MM:
nberry:
WOW! Hopefully the upgrade didn't cost too much.
It was pretty expensive. About the same $ difference as the "upgrade" from Turbo to Turbo S.
--
Mike
Carrera GT + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S + Panamera Turbo + BMW Z8 + BMW 3.0 CSi + Bentley Arnage T + GT3 RS 4.0
Much is written about Volkswagen Group's efforts to add app-like functionality to the myriad automotive systems. Apps would allow the car to be optioned at the dealership, post assembly, to meet the specialized needs of the customer. So, navigation, satellite radio and Turbo S functionality is a mouse click away.
Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S
Rossi:
palenimbus:
2. The Turbo S now is about the same base price as the 458 and the MP4-12C, but with Porsche's extensive options list I wouldn't be suprised if you could option a TurboS higher than the Ferrari or Mclaren.
The Turbo S is not only the same base price as a 458, these cars cost the same in reality. Yes, the options are a lot more expensive in Maranello, but basically we have two well equipped cars with the same price.If you order a 458 stock it won't cost you much more than a 991 Turbo S stock. Of course, if you want the last corner of the cabin clad with leather and all the plastic/alminium items replaced by ridiculously expensive CF, this will cost you a fortune in Maranello, but if you don't go mad with the options, you won't pay much more in Maranello. Same goes for the MP4-12C, but its base price is a bit higher.
Now the big, big question is, can you justify such a price for "only" a Turbo, a car that used to have the same (or slightly better) performance than its exotic rivals, but also was a decent amount cheaper in the past. Even more, if you think about depreciation. You lose some money with a McLaren, you lose quite a lot with a 458, but the Turbo will top that in a negative way.
I would ask why should a Turbo S cost less than the two other cars if it can offer more, for longer time at less maintenance and fuel cost with impeccable overall engineering ? These cars appeal to different type of buyers with different attitude. A Ferrari person would not even glance at Porsche twice and a Turbo driver likes the silent power that gets the job done rather than the glitz and glamour of exotics. In reality these two cars are so removed that they compete only in magazines and on the internet.
Depreciation? This is not something that manufacturers determine (although volumes are important) but the market forces. No one should buy a Turbo S for a couple of years and expect not to lose. Such person should better lease.
OTOH the low depreciation on Ferrari is theoretical because it emanates greatly from the fact that most used examples have minimal mileage because owners don't use them enough, fearing depreciation and the huge maintenance bills. In the case of most Porsches depreciation reflects their real world mileage. So we are not comparing like with like. I wonder what depreciation a 458 with 100.000+ km would suffer and how the cost of ownership would escalate as mileage piles up and the gargantuan bills have to be met?
--
"Form follows function"
Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S
Well Ferrari does have their new 7 year maintenance program, but the depreciation at comparable models to Porsche will still be significant.
For example, I daily drove my 997 turbo for 4+ years and put 37k on it, if I did the same for a Ferrari it would be unbelievable depreciation.
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