Crown

I like the mirrors lower part and the side intake color makes them appear more on dark colors 

Looks like a TechART car. 

2013 BMW 750 xDrive MSport & 2012 x5 - TurboS Cab on Order Mar14. Range Rover V8 on order June14

http://www.techart.de/no_cache/de/news/news/article/weltpremiere-in-essen-techart-fuer-den-neuen-911-turbo.html

Italo:

MKSGR:

reginos:

The F12 is around 10 meters in front of the 911 Turbo S. That's £10.000 per meter at UK prices. Not bad at all!

Plus you get a clumsy front-engined car with mediocre build quality… Not for me 

Give the F12 AWD and it will eat the TTS COMPLETELY ! Build quality of F12 is on par with 991, gone are the days of shabby finish. 

I have a 100% contradictory view to yours, I guess 

Back from a trip to Venice (with the Cayenne Turbo, I like it better than the 4S!).

It is my understanding that when they say the car is in QA it's actually in the exclusive department to fit the exclusive options. Both my new ones have been "in QA" for a while and I enquired and discovered that it's actually the post line production fitting.

As to the delays, they told me that if they don't find what's the problem with my Turbo S, Porsche Germany might decide to put on stand deliveries until the understand what's the issue. I'm really hoping they'll fix it soon. Monday morning they'll either work it out or call in Germany HQ.

The F12 is amazing. On value for money the 911 is quite clearly the better choice. But I don't really think that this kind of expense falls under any economic rationale. Nobody "needs" a car like this. We like it and we spend if we can afford to. It's not really about "making sense", is it?
I'd love  an F12 but social reasons kept from getting it (I went to see it, I admit it). Given that I cannot use the 911, I'm not so happy about it right now. But I expect that, if I'll ever get to use my Turbo S, the versatility of the 911 coupled with the performance will more than make up for the Ferrari "dream". If I didn't have to worry about social consequences I probably would have gone for the Aventador anyway, not the F12.

In my city there are not so many sports cars, but we have some pretty nice collection  And you guess, from all cars, only Porsche`s are accepted very well and you can see them parked almost in all parts in the city  On other side, guys with Ferrari`s are pretty rare to see in city. Mostly you can see them on evening in front of restaurants/clubs with secured parking and on weekends on roads outside of city. 

My new blog with automotive & motorcycle renders: tessoart.blogspot.com

mc3744:

Back from a trip to Venice (with the Cayenne Turbo, I like it better than the 4S!).

It is my understanding that when they say the car is in QA it's actually in the exclusive department to fit the exclusive options. Both my new ones have been "in QA" for a while and I enquired and discovered that it's actually the post line production fitting.

As to the delays, they told me that if they don't find what's the problem with my Turbo S, Porsche Germany might decide to put on stand deliveries until the understand what's the issue. I'm really hoping they'll fix it soon. Monday morning they'll either work it out or call in Germany HQ.

They haven't called/informed them yet? This is getting ridiculous.

The F12 is amazing. On value for money the 911 is quite clearly the better choice. But I don't really think that this kind of expense falls under any economic rationale. Nobody "needs" a car like this. We like it and we spend if we can afford to. It's not really about "making sense", is it?

I'd love  an F12 but social reasons kept from getting it (I went to see it, I admit it). Given that I cannot use the 911, I'm not so happy about it right now. But I expect that, if I'll ever get to use my Turbo S, the versatility of the 911 coupled with the performance will more than make up for the Ferrari "dream". If I didn't have to worry about social consequences I probably would have gone for the Aventador anyway, not the F12.

Very well said. Yes, the F12 is an amazing car but the 991 Turbo S fits my social environment, my lifestyle and public perception much better than the F12. People already associate owning a Porsche with money (first question from people is how fast and second question is how much, which always really p.ss.s me off) and with a Ferrari, even the cheapest one, things would get quite ugly. Unless you live in a very big city with many rich people in a rich neigbhorhood and you don't have kids going to school. The problem aren't even the kids (until they grow older...) but their parents. Not even always because of envy or whatever but my kids have a lot of stuff which other kids don't and when these kids tell their parents, the parents aren't too happy about it because they cannot afford (or simply don't want) to buy their kids similar stuff (iPad, Playstation, model cars, games, etc. etc. etc.). If you think that every kid over here has stuff like that, you are wrong. Also many kids here don't watch many US movies, my daughter's best friend doesn't have a clue who The Avengers are. She never heard of Thor, The Hulk, Ironman or others. Her parents didn't let her watch the typical Mickey Mouse, Tom & Jerry, etc. cartoons but Benjamin Blümchen (which is an elephant and he kind of "fights" evil people, mostly rich people, with his friends and tries to protect nature and to save the environment...), a well known German cartoon show. Just an example.

Mentality is a problem here and in other EU countries. Some parents educate their kids in a pretty universal/international way, like we do and others stick extremely to traditions, local values and similar stuff. We live in a globalized world but the thoughts and actions of people here were never less "global". It is shocking and sometimes even frightening for me. My wife always says that these people are "hicks" (Americans know probably what this means) but it isn't that simple since many of them are often actually intellectuals. I call them die hard conservatives (not in a political sense though).

One parent (a mother) of one of my kid's friends asked me last week why I drive a Porsche (she was actually referring to my Cayenne GTS). She was actually very friendly (and curious), so I told her (fun, great to drive, drive feel, long time brand connection, etc.). She looked at me as if I just told her that I take meth. She didn't understand a word I said and I'm not kidding. They drive a VW Sharan and a Skoda stationwagon and every car has to be functional. The words "fun" or "drive feel" don't exist with these people, they need a reliable, somewhat affordable car with enough space to go from A to B. This was actually the first time I understood why some people don't "get" my love for Porsche.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

RC:

The words "fun" or "drive feel" don't exist with these people, they need a reliable, somewhat affordable car with enough space to go from A to B. This was actually the first time I understood why some people don't "get" my love for Porsche.

RC, this is typical to most people on whole planet  Car`s real purpose is transporting from point A to B. Exceptions are sports cars, not other way around, so dont be surprised that most people dont understand your passion 

My new blog with automotive & motorcycle renders: tessoart.blogspot.com

Well said, Milanno.  Many people don't resent another's car, they just don't share that interest.  

And, for the most part, sports cars and even cars in general, are a guy thing.

Wonderbar:

Well said, Milanno.  Many people don't resent another's car, they just don't share that interest.  

And, for the most part, sports cars and even cars in general, are a guy thing.

I got that but I think you are wrong about the resenting part. They actually think I'm kind of stupid or some sort of a weirdo to spend so much money for a car. Or worse, like one of my wife's girlfriends said a couple of years ago: "Why does your husband need a p-substitute?". So in a way or another, they do resent my car(s) but not necessarily for envy reasons. Does this make the situation better? I doubt it. I actually think it makes it worse.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

RC you are taking other people`s thoughts (too) hard. Its normal that they think you are "stupid" for spending 200k on a CAR. They dont see that as something that makes you happy. They cant understand that you spent so much money on car that takes you from point A to point B like Skoda Octavia could. 

Since you are gentleman (of course) you should always take a spin with girl who complains so she can understand your passion  Especially if she is hot 

--

My new blog with automotive & motorcycle renders: tessoart.blogspot.com

RC:

Wonderbar:

Well said, Milanno.  Many people don't resent another's car, they just don't share that interest.  

And, for the most part, sports cars and even cars in general, are a guy thing.

I got that but I think you are wrong about the resenting part. They actually think I'm kind of stupid or some sort of a weirdo to spend so much money for a car. Or worse, like one of my wife's girlfriends said a couple of years ago: "Why does your husband need a p-substitute?". So in a way or another, they do resent my car(s) but not necessarily for envy reasons. Does this make the situation better? I doubt it. I actually think it makes it worse.

What I don't get is why you even care so much what other people think?  

fritz

fritz:

 

What I don't get is why you even care so much what other people think?  

I wish I could ignore it and there is always a short period of time when I am relaxed, not spending any thoughts on what people said before and then...wham...it hits me hard when someone makes a comment or when my wife or kids tell me what they've been told and I have to admit that when my wife or especially the kids are involved, I get pretty mad.

I try not to think about what other people think but it is difficult when you cannot really avoid it.

Wanna know the latest story? Today a customer of mine comes with a pickup ticket from a different business (he accidentally took out the wrong pickup ticket from his pocket). When I asked him why he is going to a different business (which is close to me and not cheaper or whatever), you know what he told me? "You already made enough money from me, look at the Porsche in your parking lot. Others need to make money too, so I spread my business." First, I thought he is joking. One of my employees who overheard this looked at me as if she's seen a ghost. I couldn't say anything, I was speechless and after that guy left, I spent half an hour in my office with the door closed. Yes, it affects me. How can I ignore this?

Of course this doesn't happen often but at least once a month, I have a similar incident. Many years ago, things like that were impossible, people were very nice and thankful. Now they are bitching about prices and "the rich" all the time.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

A useful gauge for measuring public reaction is how other road users treat you.  When I had the Lotus, people nearly always let me out of junctions and gave me space.  The Ferrari was similar but drivers of tatty old vans tended to deliberately block me and even pull out when in front of me when I was travelling quickly.  The Porsche is largely ignored, which means whether you are let out or not is down to the whim of the driver but again van drivers are prone to deliberate blocking. 

Gen II Cayman S

RC:

fritz:

 

What I don't get is why you even care so much what other people think?  

I wish I could ignore it and there is always a short period of time when I am relaxed, not spending any thoughts on what people said before and then...wham...it hits me hard when someone makes a comment or when my wife or kids tell me what they've been told and I have to admit that when my wife or especially the kids are involved, I get pretty mad.

I try not to think about what other people think but it is difficult when you cannot really avoid it.

Wanna know the latest story? Today a customer of mine comes with a pickup ticket from a different business (he accidentally took out the wrong pickup ticket from his pocket). When I asked him why he is going to a different business (which is close to me and not cheaper or whatever), you know what he told me? "You already made enough money from me, look at the Porsche in your parking lot. Others need to make money too, so I spread my business." First, I thought he is joking. One of my employees who overheard this looked at me as if she's seen a ghost. I couldn't say anything, I was speechless and after that guy left, I spent half an hour in my office with the door closed. Yes, it affects me. How can I ignore this?

Of course this doesn't happen often but at least once a month, I have a similar incident. Many years ago, things like that were impossible, people were very nice and thankful. Now they are bitching about prices and "the rich" all the time.

I knew I guy who used to say "The only people allowed to offend me are those I choose myself". 
I had to think about for a minute to realise how it was really meant, and when I did I adopted the same rule myself. 

There are far too many people out there prepared to express ill-informed or stupid opinions ever to take them all seriously. 

fritz

Hmm... This is clearly off-topic but, what would happened IF you were driving debadges Audi RS6 Avant and got the same answer from him?

I got almost the same situation in my business few weeks ago. Delivery van came to pick up goods from my company warehouse and its driver get the wrong papers. My warehouse employee called me and told me that "our" good client is apparently doing business with our competition as well. I did not ask "my" good client why but, I did little bit of phoecalls to find out if my competitor is having better prices or offer then my company. In short answer was no(competitor is about 12% more expensive) but, he is accepting sometimes payment delays(for up to 45 days) which I am not doing at all(my company is giving decent discount which is based in quantity).

Do you know what I also "heard" that "my" client thinks that my company earned more then enough from him and that I am not flexible enough when it comes to payment.

My solution was pretty simple. I talked with my accountant and told her to "adjuste" our price list for that "client".

It is a tough economical situation here but, I can do my work nicelly without "client" like him.

Maybe you should not ask him "why" directly?

KresoF1:

Hmm... This is clearly off-topic but, what would happened IF you were driving debadges Audi RS6 Avant and got the same answer from him?

I got almost the same situation in my business few weeks ago. Delivery van came to pick up goods from my company warehouse and its driver get the wrong papers. My warehouse employee called me and told me that "our" good client is apparently doing business with our competition as well. I did not ask "my" good client why but, I did little bit of phoecalls to find out if my competitor is having better prices or offer then my company. In short answer was no(competitor is about 12% more expensive) but, he is accepting sometimes payment delays(for up to 45 days) which I am not doing at all(my company is giving decent discount which is based in quantity).

Do you know what I also "heard" that "my" client thinks that my company earned more then enough from him and that I am not flexible enough when it comes to payment.

My solution was pretty simple. I talked with my accountant and told her to "adjuste" our price list for that "client".

It is a tough economical situation here but, I can do my work nicelly without "client" like him.

Maybe you should not ask him "why" directly?

I am a pretty direct person.  It kind of shocked me at first but now I am OK. I talked to my wife about it and she told me that one of her girlfriends(!) changed her gynecologist because he is driving a Jaguar now. She doesn't want "to support his expensive lifestyle". Her girlfriend didn't realize that she actually insulted my wife too with her comment (she is her patient too).

Maybe I shouldn't care, like fritz said but then I start thinking about the "why" and this is when I really get mad.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

KresoF1:

Hmm... This is clearly off-topic but, what would happened IF you were driving debadges Audi RS6 Avant and got the same answer from him?

I got almost the same situation in my business few weeks ago. Delivery van came to pick up goods from my company warehouse and its driver get the wrong papers. My warehouse employee called me and told me that "our" good client is apparently doing business with our competition as well. I did not ask "my" good client why but, I did little bit of phoecalls to find out if my competitor is having better prices or offer then my company. In short answer was no(competitor is about 12% more expensive) but, he is accepting sometimes payment delays(for up to 45 days) which I am not doing at all(my company is giving decent discount which is based in quantity).

Do you know what I also "heard" that "my" client thinks that my company earned more then enough from him and that I am not flexible enough when it comes to payment.

My solution was pretty simple. I talked with my accountant and told her to "adjuste" our price list for that "client".

It is a tough economical situation here but, I can do my work nicelly without "client" like him.

Maybe you should not ask him "why" directly?

Your competitor offers extended credit (compared to you) and the fact that your customer is attracted to it sounds like this client is short of cash flow, particularly if you are ~12% cheaper - I would say his "chippy" comments derive from his jealousy of your company's apparent financial position compared to his. To be paying 12% more in a time of such low interest rates is a bad sign, I think you are right to limit your exposure to this customer !

These are interesting discussions for those of us who are (I guess mostly small to medium sized) business owners and car enthusiasts. I just upgraded my second "beater" car (which I use if the weather is particularly bad or I need some space) to a four year old ML63 and one of the primary reasons is that  it will be one of  the oldest cars in the company car park

 

--

3.9  GT2 2011 make over

KresoF1:

Hmm... This is clearly off-topic but, what would happened IF you were driving debadges Audi RS6 Avant and got the same answer from him?

My previous car was an RS6 and I can definitively confirm that it didn't get nearly the attention that the 911 or the Cayenne get. Good or bad. Only "experts" could tell the difference with a regular A6.

A good friend of mine, a fiscal advisor in Munich, sold his 911 Turbo because it was "bad for business". He now has an M3, but few people are able to tell the difference between a regular 3 series and the M3 (the wife still enjoys the Cayenne ;)).

Clients were assuming he was making too much money. A few years back they would think he must be good if he is making that kind of money. In the end it all boils down to envy.

Btw, RC, did the woman who told you she could not understand the pleasure of a driving a nice car not own any jewelry or wear any make-up or dress only to cover herself rather than be pleasant? 

mc3744:

 

Clients were assuming he was making too much money. A few years back they would think he must be good if he is making that kind of money. In the end it all boils down to envy.

I hear that from so many business people over here, this is a real shame. I would actually prefer to go to the guy who owns the nicer car because I would assume he is making more money because he is good at what he is doing. 

Btw, RC, did the woman who told you she could not understand the pleasure of a driving a nice car not own any jewelry or wear any make-up or dress only to cover herself rather than be pleasant? 

 

I'm afraid you are barking the wrong tree here. Not much make-up, only some weird looking wood(!) jewelry. She is a music teacher and very conservative (life-style, not politics). Not exactly sure what hobbies she has but I think it involves baking and doing arts and craft. Still...a Porsche is somehow "acceptable" now for me (in my neighborhood), also I don't think that many people can make a difference between a 991 Turbo S and a regular 911. A more exotic car, even the Audi R8, would be impossible here.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

RC:

KresoF1:

Hmm... This is clearly off-topic but, what would happened IF you were driving debadges Audi RS6 Avant and got the same answer from him?

I got almost the same situation in my business few weeks ago. Delivery van came to pick up goods from my company warehouse and its driver get the wrong papers. My warehouse employee called me and told me that "our" good client is apparently doing business with our competition as well. I did not ask "my" good client why but, I did little bit of phoecalls to find out if my competitor is having better prices or offer then my company. In short answer was no(competitor is about 12% more expensive) but, he is accepting sometimes payment delays(for up to 45 days) which I am not doing at all(my company is giving decent discount which is based in quantity).

Do you know what I also "heard" that "my" client thinks that my company earned more then enough from him and that I am not flexible enough when it comes to payment.

My solution was pretty simple. I talked with my accountant and told her to "adjuste" our price list for that "client".

It is a tough economical situation here but, I can do my work nicelly without "client" like him.

Maybe you should not ask him "why" directly?

I am a pretty direct person.  It kind of shocked me at first but now I am OK. I talked to my wife about it and she told me that one of her girlfriends(!) changed her gynecologist because he is driving a Jaguar now. She doesn't want "to support his expensive lifestyle". Her girlfriend didn't realize that she actually insulted my wife too with her comment (she is her patient too).

Maybe I shouldn't care, like fritz said but then I start thinking about the "why" and this is when I really get mad.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Christian, i dont know how you and your wife can tolerate that. I have been following all your posts about that issue and i really think its about time you got the hell out of there:).

come to southern CA and see the difference. people of all kinds will be congratulating you and you will be getting millions of thumbs up on the highway, at gas stations, at restaurants etc.... my patients are always impressed with my cars and all want to go for rides. with that car passion that you and all of us share, i think you are living in the wrong place im afraid. 

2011 CTT, 2013 12C Spider, 2013 A5 cab, 2014 4Runner Trail Edition

RC,

I do not post very often, but I do sympathize with what you say.  Years ago when I bought my first 911, I had colleagues and friends get pretty hostile with me when they found out I was getting a Porsche.  Funny thing is that after their bantering, they would then tell me that when I get the car, they want a ride in it.  I would just sit there with a WTF look on my face wondering what just happened.  Needless to say, none of these people got any rides in my car and don't even know what I have in my garage.  Now, I only talk cars to people who are like minded.

Just couple months ago a German friend of mine who is a Rennteam moderator came on a business trip to Portugal and we went for a drink. I took my Cab, and while we were riding in Lisbon center a Renault Kangoo parked next to us on traffic light, the guy open his window and ask me with a huge smile if I wanted to change cars! My friend who doesn't speak Portuguese asked me what the guy have asked and when I told him, he said it would be completely impossible something similar like this to happens in Germany , actually he told me stories that happened with him in Germany which confirms what Christian has been telling about Germans low attitude towards sports cars.

Anyway there have been some other occasions where drivers were not so "funny" on their  comments and while not pleasant to ear,  it doesn't bother me, I simply don't give any credit to this kind of ignorance.

J.Seven

Portugal is extremely sportcar friendly and not at all envious in that respect, it is a great place for sportcars. I live near Portugal and here I have been asked that same question about changing cars, have been asked to rev the car, asked to floor it, once even a car next to me with young women inside one asked me to take her for a ride... but never had any bad comments or situations. Its not like this in say Madrid or Barcelona though.

J.Seven:

Just couple months ago a German friend of mine who is a Rennteam moderator came on a business trip to Portugal and we went for a drink. I took my Cab, and while we were riding in Lisbon center a Renault Kangoo parked next to us on traffic light, the guy open his window and ask me with a huge smile if I wanted to change cars! My friend who doesn't speak Portuguese asked me what the guy have asked and when I told him, he said it would be completely impossible something similar like this to happens in Germany , actually he told me stories that happened with him in Germany which confirms what Christian has been telling about Germans low attitude towards sports cars.

Anyway there have been some other occasions where drivers were not so "funny" on their  comments and while not pleasant to ear,  it doesn't bother me, I simply don't give any credit to this kind of ignorance.

J.Seven

A similar thing happened to me in my Panamera Turbo S last year in spring. A young man sitting in a Mercedes A class as a passenger asked me to open the window and he asked the same thing with a smile on his face. The driver had a huge grin on his face too and showed me thumbs up. Both very very friendly. I'm not sure but I think they were Turks (by the looks and accent). Usually I get the middle finger from younger people... 

Maybe we should get back to topic, I'm not sure everyone here in the forum can (or wants to) relate to the issues we discussed. I know a couple of Porsche drivers over here who couldn't care less what other people think, actually they WANT them to be envious, which just isn't my thing. I want to be left alone with my toy(s).

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

RC come live in kuwait ... u wont get the finger but u will get something else .... EVERY ONE WANNA RACE YOU  red light  red light 

its crazy BUT FUN 

sulaiman:

RC come live in kuwait ... u wont get the finger but u will get something else .... EVERY ONE WANNA RACE YOU  red light  red light 

 

its crazy BUT FUN 

  Well, I prefer nice people who are into having fun rather than what I encounter here. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

mc3744 

i feel sorry for u man :( 

isnt time to get the lawyer  thing ??