Crown

Good to know, Mike. Thanks.  Let's just hope for  the best. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

The only one thing that lacks 991 turbo s is the acceleration. Its almost the same as 997.2 turbo s in acc. In all other means 991 is a huge leap forward. But it lacks acceleration.

artur777:

The only one thing that lacks 991 turbo s is the acceleration. Its almost the same as 997.2 turbo s in acc. In all other means 991 is a huge leap forward. But it lacks acceleration.

0-100 in 2.9 sec, 0-200 in 9.6 sec and you say it lacks acceleration..... Don't think there are many production cars with that pricetag that are faster (stock). What is so important about being 0.1 sec faster or slower?? i simply don't get it.

A car isn't only about numbers, a car is about driving and how it makes you experience the driving. Want fast acceleration? Get a Top-fuel dragster and a dragstrip 

--

Suzy

 

SuzyF:

artur777:

The only one thing that lacks 991 turbo s is the acceleration. Its almost the same as 997.2 turbo s in acc. In all other means 991 is a huge leap forward. But it lacks acceleration.

0-100 in 2.9 sec, 0-200 in 9.6 sec and you say it lacks acceleration..... Don't think there are many production cars with that pricetag that are faster (stock). What is so important about being 0.1 sec faster or slower?? i simply don't get it.

A car isn't only about numbers, a car is about driving and how it makes you experience the driving. Want fast acceleration? Get a Top-fuel dragster and a dragstrip 

--

Suzy

 

You dont understand the point. Acceleration is very important. And we dont talk about dragsters , we talk about normal cars. Cabrera will be faster, MP4-12c is faster... I think we need to have at least 600 hp in turbo s to make a difference with 997.2 turbo s.

by the way, 991 turbo s has rather slow acceleration after 200 kmh. 200-300 kmh should be about 15 secs to be competitive. 

artur777:

SuzyF:

artur777:

The only one thing that lacks 991 turbo s is the acceleration. Its almost the same as 997.2 turbo s in acc. In all other means 991 is a huge leap forward. But it lacks acceleration.

0-100 in 2.9 sec, 0-200 in 9.6 sec and you say it lacks acceleration..... Don't think there are many production cars with that pricetag that are faster (stock). What is so important about being 0.1 sec faster or slower?? i simply don't get it.

A car isn't only about numbers, a car is about driving and how it makes you experience the driving. Want fast acceleration? Get a Top-fuel dragster and a dragstrip 

--

Suzy

 

You dont understand the point. Acceleration is very important. And we dont talk about dragsters , we talk about normal cars. Cabrera will be faster, MP4-12c is faster... I think we need to have at least 600 hp in turbo s to make a difference with 997.2 turbo s.

by the way, 991 turbo s has rather slow acceleration after 200 kmh. 200-300 kmh should be about 15 secs to be competitive. 

I still don't understand the point indeed. i never will probably. Why is an acceleration above 200 so important? 95% of the people that buy the 991 Turbo S will use that less than 1% of the time they drive the car.  So in my opinion that is competely meaningless. Nice to brag about to your friends, but other than that it doesn't have any purpose.  

I like to drive fast and if I get the chance on the German autobahn to drive safely at the topspeed of my car, I will do it, but I don't care if it takes me 30 seconds to get there or 28... What i think is more important, is the acceleration to 100 or 160, because that is something you can use much more often and is also more fun to do.

if a McLaren is faster than my car... Fine. I don't care a tiny bit about it. i would not even consider buying that car. If the only important thing is how fast a car is, then It doesn't do any (road)car justice if you ask me. A car like that is so much more than only those figures. Doesn't matter if it is a Porsche or a Ferrari or Mclaren, all these cars and brands have their own special things that attract people.  If there is a cometogether it's nice that when you do a dragrace with friends that you are the fastest, but lets be honest... Is it really that important?  I think there are other things in life that are much more important than getting to 300 a second quicker than a friend in a different car...

But maybe it's just because I'm a female and have a different view on these things...

Suzy

 

Above a certain level of performance and all of those cars have more than enough of it, what counts to the owners is the feel of the car, the overall driving and ownership experience, the style, the real world ground covering ability (see Porsche)  and the affection or the indifference to a given brand.

These minute acceleration differences interest more the journalists and those who just read the magazines rather than the actual buyers. If what they desire happens to have the best 1/100 acceleration that might just be a bonus but it wouldn't sway the opinion.

--

"Form follows function"

SuzyF:

I still don't understand the point indeed. i never will probably. Why is an acceleration above 200 so important? 95% of the people that buy the 991 Turbo S will use that less than 1% of the time they drive the car.  So in my opinion that is competely meaningless. Nice to brag about to your friends, but other than that it doesn't have any purpose.  

 

It is an emotional topic... If you spend big money it is nice to know that the performance is at the top of the competition. Even if the other car is just 1s or 2s quicker it can hurt... Although it has very limited consequences in real life 

In case of the 991 turbo S I would say that even if the McLaren might be 2-3s quicker 0-300kph under ideal (!) conditions the Porsche will be as quick or even quicker in mostly all normal (!) road situations (road is not completely dry, cold temperature etc.). That might compensate for these 2-3s - from an emotional point of view 

Hey RC, you posted on the other forum about the engine hardware being the same yet the article below says that Porsche engineer Thomas Krickelberg says different ?

 http://fortyonesix.com/news/1320/porsche-re-engineers-turbo-s-fo

I must have missed the bit on this thread where you had contrary information, can you repeat it please and can you say why this article would be written with such big and important errors in it whilst claiming they came from an (important) Porsche employee  

3.9  GT2 2011 make over

Here is the comment:

It wasn’t just a matter of recalibration, though. Porsche engineer’s additional fun “creates a higher load in extra heat and stresses for the piston. We’ve thus reinforced the pistons – and because we’ve added extra material, we’ve also had to fit new conrods, 2mm shorter than the regular turbo items.

Yes and they used the same parts for the regular Turbo too because it is easier and cheaper. 

I guess Mr. Krickelberg forgot to mention it. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

So they are saying the "regular turbo" ie 991 turbo started off with presumably 997 turbo/S pistons and rods and then when they developed the 991 turbo S they had to change these parts and since the cost of the parts is probably similar they just used the new parts in all the 991 turbos...... makes sense 

3.9  GT2 2011 make over

TB993tt:

So they are saying the "regular turbo" ie 991 turbo started off with presumably 997 turbo/S pistons and rods and then when they developed the 991 turbo S they had to change these parts and since the cost of the parts is probably similar they just used the new parts in all the 991 turbos...... makes sense 

   You know that if something is considered a rumor, I post it as a rumor. In this case however, I know for sure and not from a car magazine or my dealer. 

Both, the Turbo and Turbo S have completely new engines based on the old DI engine from the 997 Turbo S. Almost no part is the same but the engine is still "based" on the old one, whatever this means in detail. I may learn more details about the 991 Turbo/Turbo S engine as soon as I put my hands on the technical documentation. I still don't have it, which kind of bothers me. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Many thanks for the clarification, I like to have correct technical info 

 I am now thinking that the ability to program the factory S ECU systems software into the regular 991 turbo has become a realistic and valuable proposition which if done correctly will not cause the regular 991 turbo motor any reliability problems....  

3.9  GT2 2011 make over

TB993tt:

Many thanks for the clarification, I like to have correct technical info 

 I am now thinking that the ability to program the factory S ECU systems software into the regular 991 turbo has become a realistic and valuable proposition which if done correctly will not cause the regular 991 turbo motor any reliability problems....  

I don't think the engine would be a problem but there are so many control units involved... (AWS, PTM, PDK, etc.).

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

thanks for the clarification..

Tomorrows issue of Sport Auto-991GT3 Supertest and 991 Turbo S comparison test agains latest Gallardo.

Few quotes from the Sport Auto in German...

Gibt es einen neuen Nordschleifen-König?

Wir konnten es kaum erwarten: Der neue Porsche 911 GT3 stand in unserer Tiefgarage und Porsche hat es in der Vergangenheit immer wieder geschafft, das scheinbar Unverbesserliche noch einen Tick besser zu machen, neue Bestwerte in den Asphalt zu stampfen und so die Hoffnung auf den technischen Fortschritt im Sportwagenbau am Leben zu halten.

Der neue 911 GT3 hat wieder mehr Leistung, trotz größerem Radstand kaum mehr Gewicht, dafür mit der Allradlenkung ein Feature an Bord, das aus historischer Sicht nicht immer und unbedingt im Ruf steht, den Fahrspaß wirklich zu erhöhen. Neue Bestwerte hat auch der 911 GT3 wieder produziert, doch das Gefühl am absoluten Limit hat gelitten, weil mit der Allradlenkung eine weitere Einflussgröße zwischen dem Fahrverhalten des Autos und dem Fahrgefühl des Fahrers steht.

Ende der Fahnenstange?

Komischerweise gilt das nicht für den Porsche 911 Turbo S, der über das gleiche System verfügt. Im Vergleichstest mit dem aktuellen Sondermodell des Lamborghini Gallardo war der Turbo in Hockenheim sogar neun Zehntelsekunden schneller als der 911 GT3 – gelinde gesagt eine fette Überraschung. Eine eindeutige Erklärung für diesen Befund ist nur schwer auszumachen. Der Hauptunterschied zwischen GT3 und Turbo ist technisch betrachtet der Allradantrieb. Die Kombination aus Allradantrieb und Allradlenkung hat unserem Tester Christian Gebhardt echte Freudentränen in die Augen getrieben. Doch die interne Hackordnung bei Porsche sieht nicht den Turbos S als Benchmark auf der Rennstrecke – sondern den 911 GT3. Unsere vorläufigen Testergebnisse sagen aber das Gegenteil. Bei solch zwiespältigen Testbefunden sind die Gründe meist dieselben: Oft ist einfach jenes Fahrzeug am Limit schneller unterwegs, dessen Fahrbarkeit höher angesiedelt ist.

Motorsport-Analogie

Im Rennsport ist es oft genauso: Je unkritischer sich ein Fahrzeug am Limit verhält, desto breiter und kalkulierbarer sein Grenzbereich, umso wohler fühlt sich der Fahrer. Aus dem Vertrauen ins Auto wächst das Selbstvertrauen des Fahrers. Und der Fahrer muss am Ende aller Tage die Rundenzeiten exekutieren, die das Technikpaket leisten soll.

//

/; application.wrapOABanner = false; if(currentOAOutput && !adbannerRegex.test(currentOAOutput)) { application.wrapOABanner = true; document.write('

Is this beginning of the new order in Porsche 911 line up

Strange how much more composed the Gallardo seems to be on one lap, and faster too it seems?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfv61twl-2s

So the "easier" car wins just,  in the numerical comparison?

But the driver of the GT3 might have more fun in the process of finishing second

"Form follows function"

KresoF1:
No. Slower.

Porker is right... I definitely would like to see the Porsche win, but the Gallardo is half a second quicker  1:08.2 vs. 1:08.7 for the 991 Turbo S.  

Suzy

 

Confused.  Anyone have the article in English, or can summarize?

Wonderbar:

Confused.  Anyone have the article in English, or can summarize?

Google translation:
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sportau...

Suzy

 

KresoF1:

Tomorrows issue of Sport Auto-991GT3 Supertest and 991 Turbo S comparison test agains latest Gallardo.

Few quotes from the Sport Auto in German...

Gibt es einen neuen Nordschleifen-König?

Wir konnten es kaum erwarten: Der neue Porsche 911 GT3 stand in unserer Tiefgarage und Porsche hat es in der Vergangenheit immer wieder geschafft, das scheinbar Unverbesserliche noch einen Tick besser zu machen, neue Bestwerte in den Asphalt zu stampfen und so die Hoffnung auf den technischen Fortschritt im Sportwagenbau am Leben zu halten.

Der neue 911 GT3 hat wieder mehr Leistung, trotz größerem Radstand kaum mehr Gewicht, dafür mit der Allradlenkung ein Feature an Bord, das aus historischer Sicht nicht immer und unbedingt im Ruf steht, den Fahrspaß wirklich zu erhöhen. Neue Bestwerte hat auch der 911 GT3 wieder produziert, doch das Gefühl am absoluten Limit hat gelitten, weil mit der Allradlenkung eine weitere Einflussgröße zwischen dem Fahrverhalten des Autos und dem Fahrgefühl des Fahrers steht.

Ende der Fahnenstange?

Komischerweise gilt das nicht für den Porsche 911 Turbo S, der über das gleiche System verfügt. Im Vergleichstest mit dem aktuellen Sondermodell des Lamborghini Gallardo war der Turbo in Hockenheim sogar neun Zehntelsekunden schneller als der 911 GT3 – gelinde gesagt eine fette Überraschung. Eine eindeutige Erklärung für diesen Befund ist nur schwer auszumachen. Der Hauptunterschied zwischen GT3 und Turbo ist technisch betrachtet der Allradantrieb. Die Kombination aus Allradantrieb und Allradlenkung hat unserem Tester Christian Gebhardt echte Freudentränen in die Augen getrieben. Doch die interne Hackordnung bei Porsche sieht nicht den Turbos S als Benchmark auf der Rennstrecke – sondern den 911 GT3. Unsere vorläufigen Testergebnisse sagen aber das Gegenteil. Bei solch zwiespältigen Testbefunden sind die Gründe meist dieselben: Oft ist einfach jenes Fahrzeug am Limit schneller unterwegs, dessen Fahrbarkeit höher angesiedelt ist.

Motorsport-Analogie

Im Rennsport ist es oft genauso: Je unkritischer sich ein Fahrzeug am Limit verhält, desto breiter und kalkulierbarer sein Grenzbereich, umso wohler fühlt sich der Fahrer. Aus dem Vertrauen ins Auto wächst das Selbstvertrauen des Fahrers. Und der Fahrer muss am Ende aller Tage die Rundenzeiten exekutieren, die das Technikpaket leisten soll.

//

/; application.wrapOABanner = false; if(currentOAOutput && !adbannerRegex.test(currentOAOutput)) { application.wrapOABanner = true; document.write('

Is this beginning of the new order in Porsche 911 line up

 

Hi Kreso,

Thanks..good results for sure I would say for Porsche..but Im suprised about the Gallardo..I like this car anyway..but which version was it? There is no new version or?..

Oh..dont torture us...give us the full result (NS) please..in less then 24h we will know it anyway..we wont kill you for this..

SuzyF:

KresoF1:
No. Slower.

Porker is right... I definitely would like to see the Porsche win, but the Gallardo is half a second quicker  1:08.2 vs. 1:08.7 for the 991 Turbo S.  

does it really matter which car is faster on the track? by 0.some second? in a totally opposing picture, today i drove (in my 458) from zuerich to vienna and the fastest i could do on the german autobahn was 203km/h, for about 10 seconds. there was traffic everywhere and construction sites all over the place. i had 15 fun minutes on the arlbergpass which made the whole journey worthwhile. but track time....i could not care less. i want a car which is fun at legal/semi-legal speeds. p

moo:

SuzyF:

KresoF1:
No. Slower.

Porker is right... I definitely would like to see the Porsche win, but the Gallardo is half a second quicker  1:08.2 vs. 1:08.7 for the 991 Turbo S.  

does it really matter which car is faster on the track? by 0.some second? in a totally opposing picture, today i drove (in my 458) from zuerich to vienna and the fastest i could do on the german autobahn was 203km/h, for about 10 seconds. there was traffic everywhere and construction sites all over the place. i had 15 fun minutes on the arlbergpass which made the whole journey worthwhile. but track time....i could not care less. i want a car which is fun at legal/semi-legal speeds. p

fully correct..and 0,2sec or 0,5sec..99,99% wont be able to feel the difference anyway..but the times are just a "guideline"...

I cant get over the fact that the new 911 Turbo is such a beautiful piece of art work..  This is the nicest Turbo ever....

http://www.autogespot.co.uk/porsche-991-turbo-s/2013/10/17#img2

2014 991 Turbo (on order, Nov Prod)
2012 991 C2S w/Fabspeed SOLD
2011 Ferrari 458 Italia Rosso Mondiale / cuoio
2011 Turbo S Cab SOLD
2010 BMW AH7 
2010 Caddy Escalade
2006 Cayman S First P car, SOLD

SuzyF:

KresoF1:
No. Slower.

Porker is right... I definitely would like to see the Porsche win, but the Gallardo is half a second quicker  1:08.2 vs. 1:08.7 for the 991 Turbo S.  

I was cheering for the Gallardo! I know it's the 100th iteration, but that Squada Corsa thing does do it for me, awesome looks, awesome sound. For roughly the same price, I'd have it over the Turbo S anytime. I'd look like an idiot driving around in it, but a very happy idiot.

Porker:

SuzyF:

KresoF1:
No. Slower.

Porker is right... I definitely would like to see the Porsche win, but the Gallardo is half a second quicker  1:08.2 vs. 1:08.7 for the 991 Turbo S.  

I was cheering for the Gallardo! I know it's the 100th iteration, but that Squada Corsa thing does do it for me, awesome looks, awesome sound. For roughly the same price, I'd have it over the Turbo S anytime. I'd look like an idiot driving around in it, but a very happy idiot.

the gallardo is an emotional machine and the turbo S a great technologic achievement which left me totally cold when i test drove it. when i changed over to my F458 after the test drive, i felt i was in the slower car, but i felt alive again!!! all those cars 911 GT3, turbo (S), gallardos, F458, F12, MP4-12C are absolute overachievers on the road. so you chose the one which makes your heart beat faster and forget about those track times. if ever i get overtaken by a turbo S i could not care less. the porsche driver might not even realize how fast he is going.....poor him. peter

moo:

SuzyF:

KresoF1:
No. Slower.

Porker is right... I definitely would like to see the Porsche win, but the Gallardo is half a second quicker  1:08.2 vs. 1:08.7 for the 991 Turbo S.  

does it really matter which car is faster on the track? by 0.some second? in a totally opposing picture, today i drove (in my 458) from zuerich to vienna and the fastest i could do on the german autobahn was 203km/h, for about 10 seconds. there was traffic everywhere and construction sites all over the place. i had 15 fun minutes on the arlbergpass which made the whole journey worthwhile. but track time....i could not care less. i want a car which is fun at legal/semi-legal speeds. p

You are absolutely right. I don't mind a thing about the times to be honest... But I thought to myself, let's try to act like a lot of other petrolheads that think laptimes are very important.... Maybe I can blend in....

Didn't work out very well, did it? 

I never see the importance of those laptimes. Sure.. It's fun to know, but nothing more that that. I buy a car because I like the car... Not because it is faster than another car 

--

Suzy

 

in final analysis, the bmw M5 was my best long distance cruiser (i bet it beats the turbo S in that discipline), the F458 my best twisted mountain road drive (maybe the turbo S is faster in that but who cares) and supposedly the turbo S is best on wet/snowy roads at less than 3 centigrades. so when i go from vienna to monte carlo in winter in need all three of them, consecutively---))) hard to put into practice, isn't it?

suzy, maybe your choice of the boxster S is optimal anyway?---))))

cheers, peter

moo:

Porker:

SuzyF:

KresoF1:
No. Slower.

Porker is right... I definitely would like to see the Porsche win, but the Gallardo is half a second quicker  1:08.2 vs. 1:08.7 for the 991 Turbo S.  

I was cheering for the Gallardo! I know it's the 100th iteration, but that Squada Corsa thing does do it for me, awesome looks, awesome sound. For roughly the same price, I'd have it over the Turbo S anytime. I'd look like an idiot driving around in it, but a very happy idiot.

the gallardo is an emotional machine and the turbo S a great technologic achievement which left me totally cold when i test drove it. when i changed over to my F458 after the test drive, i felt i was in the slower car, but i felt alive again!!! all those cars 911 GT3, turbo (S), gallardos, F458, F12, MP4-12C are absolute overachievers on the road. so you chose the one which makes your heart beat faster and forget about those track times. if ever i get overtaken by a turbo S i could not care less. the porsche driver might not even realize how fast he is going.....poor him. peter

 

I also had the chance to drive the car this week and i feel exactly the opposite. It's exactly what I'm looking for in a daily driveable sportscar. To my own surprise, i'm completely convinced now. Never really liked the 911 Turbo to be honest. I still think the C4S looks better but it is only very nice to drive when you drive inspired with the car. In Normal mode the car feels sluggish and gets annoying, just like my Boxster. In Sport or Sport plus the car wants you to drive inspired and I don't want that all the time. Drove a Turbo S and a C4S back to back to compare them and after that it was clear to me.

I agree with you that the Turbo S doesn't have the emotion of a 458 or even a Carrera S, but i think that I'm not looking for that emotion in my daily driver. I love how easy the car is to drive at low speeds and daily traffic. I'm probably spoiled by the diesel cars I drove and drive, but the low end torque is addicting at speeds below the speedlimit and makes you feel quick, without needing to brake hat speedlimit. That is exactly what I was missing with a C4S and also in my Boxster S. For the Boxster that is not a big problem, since it is a fun car and not a car I take into the city or to a costumer or for a relaxed drive.

So the Turbo S is what I'm going for and for the emotional driving I think I will wait for the Alfa 4C QV (Targa?), or I'll keep my Boxster... Not sure about that yet.  Haven't ordered anything yet.

--

Suzy