Crown

Ziggy:

By the way Rossi, what do you think of the 991 Turbo / Turbo S? Always interested in your opinion. 

Thanks Ziggy. Funny enough, I just saw the new Turbo on the street this weekend, when I came back from a F-type testdrive. Well, I wasn't that impressed, but the car had still the camouflage on, so I'll wait till I have seen the real deal.

Judging from the pics of the 991 Turbo/Turbo S, I have some mixed emotions about the new car. Brilliant engineering aside and I'm sure it will be devastatingly quick and a fanstastic drive, I think Porsche tried a bit too hard with the design of the new model.
Let's not talk about the Panamera interior, you like it or you don't, but surely you can live with it. At least I could. But the exterior is a different story. The basic 991 shape is a successful evolution or let's say modernisation of the classic 991 theme. But in case of the new Turbo Porsche failed at the details.
Let's start with the front. Porsche did right, to widen up the air inlets, but why do the new DRL units not fill the whole upper air intake? Why do they have this upward bend? Looks wrong IMO. Moreover these DRL look like taken from the Panamera pre-facelift, which doesn't look good either. Then there is that cheap looking plastic insert with the parking sensors, but only in case of the Turbo S, standard Turbo looks better here. But both share this front lip with this silly Turbo lettering. I mean who in the world needs a "Turbo" or "Turbo S" in this spot?
So let's have a look at the side. We see a new air inlet, but is it any better than the much criticised inlet of the 997 Turbo? Not sure about this. The shape may be better than that of the predecessor, but the black plastic is just too visible inside. If you want to know how an air inlet is done right, take a look at the 993 Turbo S or any Ferrari. And ironically the air outlets of the rear bumper now feature a black fin (which looks good), whereas the side air inlets don't. That's why these two openings at close quarters don't go together well.
Finally the rear. I like the slits of the engine lid and the look of the Turbo wing. What I don't like is the - again - silly new lettering at the back. "PORSCHE 911 Turbo S" is just too much for me, in fact this would be the first car I would order without the model designation, since the "PORSCHE" is more than enough IMO. The air outlets are okay, but I absolutely hate these hideous exhaust tips, which look like a cheap stereotype of an awful AMG rear. No, no and no once again. How much better the rear would look with rounded exhaust tips can be seen in SCG's photoshop.

So in summary again judging from the pics, the new model has many details I don't like. Yes, I'm talking about details, but at least to me these details ruin the harmonious lines of the 991.

Last but not least, I also think that the car has become too wide with 1.88m. This is 5 cm short of a 458 and only 2 cm short of a R8. Yes, it will look impressive on the street, but in the end this is still a 911 and not a V8-midengined sports car.

--

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

nberry:

Ziggy:

By the way Rossi, what do you think of the 991 Turbo / Turbo S? Always interested in your opinion. 

Also, like to know what you think of the GT3.

Hi Nick, I think the GT3 is better looking than the new Turbo models and I'm sure it will be very special and a blast to drive.

Next to the Carrera S this is the most tempting model in the current 991-range for me. Personally I liked the less busy front of the 997.2 GT3 better:

And I guess I will never become a friend of the GT3 wing in this life, I would so much prefer a modified ducktail, perhaps with an extendable part on top, but hey, that's just me.

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

Maybe it's just me, but I love the Carrera Classic wheels I always see on 911s. Doesn't look like they'll offer them though since they aren't centerlock though.

Thanks Rossi I agree 100% with your two posts (The one as response to me and the one as response to Nick).  And I anticipated your response on the front DRL of the Turbo / Turbo S no fulfilling the whole width of the front bumper and being unfortunately borrowed from the pre-facelift Panamera Turbo. 

wedouglas:

Maybe it's just me, but I love the Carrera Classic wheels I always see on 911s. Doesn't look like they'll offer them though since they aren't centerlock though.

I love them too!

@Rossi:

My observations on the Turbo styling coincide with your critique.

The front DRLs immediately alluded to the Hercule Poirot moustache . Although not exactly the same shape this is what came to my mind

The front plastic inserts and the side air intakes would be improved if painted in body colour. This could have been a welcome option for light coloured cars. As things are the best colour will be black that conceals those styling weaknesses.

As to the front lip with the logos, I am under the impression (see the animation on the microsite) that the lettering is visible only when the lip is extended at speed, so this will present no aesthetic problem when parked or moving slow.

"Form follows function"

wedouglas:

Super Darius:

The more i see pictures the more i like the white Turbo S....

Monday i will have an offer from my dealer,but i just know the answer,due the price it will start to make the offer i'm sure  for me will be too high...we will see.

Sure the idea to put on sale Turbo and TS at the same time,put in trouble who like me can afford a good Turbo but not a Turbo S specially now with this prices incerase.And take a Turbo now is like to have a CAR but the one you whant,try to undesrtand.

So,i think is not worth to buy a Turbo at 180.000 euros with a TS at 205.000 ,but 205.000 is too much for me today.

hope the GT3RS will have the right price... or in a miracle of my dealer monday... 

They will have depreciated a lot by the time the GT3 RS comes out I'm sure, so you'll have options. After all, GT3 is barely even out yet -- or isn't it?

Yes,the GT3 is out,but when will come the RS,will be the same as Tutbo vs Turbo S,you have the Gt3,but you whant the Gt3 RS...at least for me.

Can't wait to see the offer of my dealer,sure the White Turbo S makes me crazy.

997TT RS Tuning stage II,2011 Cayenne Turbo

Rossi:

Ziggy:

By the way Rossi, what do you think of the 991 Turbo / Turbo S? Always interested in your opinion. 

Thanks Ziggy. Funny enough, I just saw the new Turbo on the street this weekend, when I came back from a F-type testdrive. 

BTW, how was the F type? I presume you testdrove the V8S.

"Form follows function"

The best about the new Turbo, the wheels:

2012 Cayenne S White/Espresso 

Ex: 993 Targa, 986S, 986 and 964 C2

reginos:

Rossi:

Ziggy:

By the way Rossi, what do you think of the 991 Turbo / Turbo S? Always interested in your opinion. 

Thanks Ziggy. Funny enough, I just saw the new Turbo on the street this weekend, when I came back from a F-type testdrive. 

BTW, how was the F type? I presume you testdrove the V8S.

Yes, V8S with 495 hp. In one word? Loud. In two words? Too loud.

I will write some comment in the sports car board.

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

There is no "too loud". 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

I would like to add a few points to this discussion (the ones referring to the live experience with the Turbo S based on the findings of a "friend", not mine...unfortunately):

1. The new Turbo/Turbo S are aprox. only 20kg heavier than the previous Turbo models and while the car is no lightweight, please just take a minute to compare the weight to the BMW M3 or the Nissan GT-R. The M3 should have the weight of the GT3... 

2. The car looks much better in reality than on photos, according to the person who saw it, he hated it on the press photos but loved it when he saw it live. In his own words: "Der geilste Turbo, den ich je gesehen habe...", meaning: The most amazing Turbo he ever saw.

3. The "old" 997 Turbo/Turbo S apparently looked too "tame" for many (potential) customers, so they tried to make the new 991 Turbo/Turbo S look more distinctive, to say at least, compared to the regular 991 Carrera, especially the Carrera 4 models. Porsche had to find the right mixture (not too flashy, not too boring) and they may have done a bit too much. On the other hand, if you pay 200k EUR for a car...well...

4. The 991 GT3 is probably the best offer in the 911 line right now, considering the 0-100 kph in 3.5 sec./0-200 kph in 11.4 sec. performance and the very sporty and direct drive feel but this car has no AWD and it lacks the two back seats of the Turbo/Turbo S. This may not be important to many younger drivers but for me and others I know this really is an issue.

Overall, I think that the only thing I don't like about the new Turbo S is the minimal performance difference compared to the regular Turbo. 0.5 seconds from 0-200 kph isn't much, even if the real life performance difference could be bigger. According to one source, a 991 Turbo S mule did 0-200 kph in 9.5 seconds an 0-100 kph in 2.7 seconds and the engine was practically stock. Let's hope for the best. 

I like the new Turbo but if it costs way more than the GT3, I may still go for the GT3 instead, even if I personally would probably prefer the Turbo S. For track fun, the GT3 surely is the better car though.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Looking forward to your review of V8S. 

I am awaiting my turn for the test drive as well.

RC:

There is no "too loud". 

Then you are deaf.

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

@RC: thank you for comments. I hope the Turbo is not done favours by the official pictures and it is better  looking in reality. The area of the side air inlets and the wide horizontal rear wheel arches must be seen in real life to form a definite impression; in 2D this area cannot be appreciated.

IMO the GT3 is good value if you just take the price relative to performance into account. However, for what is in reality a weekend/track car, it is a luxury. Difficult to imagine it as a daily car due to its low ride height (in spite of the lift), lack of rear seats, aggressive RWD, useless tyres when it rains and racy attention grabing aerodynamic addenda. Therefore, for the number of days in the year that it could be used it is a big extravagance and just for people who can afford a large garage. It cannot be someone's daily sportscar unlike the Carrera or the Turbo.

"Form follows function"

RC:

There is no "too loud". 

What about your Cayenne GTS??

RC:

 

I would like to add a few points to this discussion (the ones referring to the live experience with the Turbo S based on the findings of a "friend", not mine...unfortunately):

1. The new Turbo/Turbo S are aprox. only 20kg heavier than the previous Turbo models and while the car is no lightweight, please just take a minute to compare the weight to the BMW M3 or the Nissan GT-R. The M3 should have the weight of the GT3... 

2. The car looks much better in reality than on photos, according to the person who saw it, he hated it on the press photos but loved it when he saw it live. In his own words: "Der geilste Turbo, den ich je gesehen habe...", meaning: The most amazing Turbo he ever saw.

3. The "old" 997 Turbo/Turbo S apparently looked too "tame" for many (potential) customers, so they tried to make the new 991 Turbo/Turbo S look more distinctive, to say at least, compared to the regular 991 Carrera, especially the Carrera 4 models. Porsche had to find the right mixture (not too flashy, not too boring) and they may have done a bit too much. On the other hand, if you pay 200k EUR for a car...well...

4. The 991 GT3 is probably the best offer in the 911 line right now, considering the 0-100 kph in 3.5 sec./0-200 kph in 11.4 sec. performance and the very sporty and direct drive feel but this car has no AWD and it lacks the two back seats of the Turbo/Turbo S. This may not be important to many younger drivers but for me and others I know this really is an issue.

Overall, I think that the only thing I don't like about the new Turbo S is the minimal performance difference compared to the regular Turbo. 0.5 seconds from 0-200 kph isn't much, even if the real life performance difference could be bigger. According to one source, a 991 Turbo S mule did 0-200 kph in 9.5 seconds an 0-100 kph in 2.7 seconds and the engine was practically stock. Let's hope for the best. 

I like the new Turbo but if it costs way more than the GT3, I may still go for the GT3 instead, even if I personally would probably prefer the Turbo S. For track fun, the GT3 surely is the better car though.

Christian,

I almost fully agree with your remarks.

But... Is 991 GT3 really a better choice(apart from its much nicer price)

Let's see:

-for the occasional track use GT3 is better.

-for spirited driving on mountain road better is... Hmm... Most of the members will wrote here GT3. Just, I am not totally sure about it.

-for autobahn new Turbo for sure.

-for everyday use new Turbo for sure.

-for all weather new Turbo again.

Do not forget that GT3 is equiped with sport tires and they will offer not soo amazing wet road traction. Yes, new GT3 is probably the best value currently in 991 range. But, IMHO it can be only used as third car in a garage.

Since character of both new GT3 and new Turbo is so different I can say that my P friend was pretty right when he suggested that a fluent Porsche fan will need both...

Oh, I totally hate standard wheels on both Turbo and Turbo S. For me new Sport Classic wheels in Black are a must option.

KresoF1:

(...)

German 991 Turbo price list:

http://files1.porsche.com/filestore.aspx/Porsche-Download.pdf?pool=germany&type=download&id=991-tu-catalogue-price&lang=none&filetype=default&version=57e00931-9dcb-494e-94fb-9d1f44faae4f

BTW, check out optional 20" Sport Classic wheels that are available in Black as well. Best wheels for new Turbo IMHO. There is a picture of thses wheels in black at page 70 of the price list.

(...)

Is this the wheel? .... One word: WOW!!!!!!!!!!! Best wheel i see so far for the 991!!!! And a proper wheel for the Turbo!! Now i love the Turbo (s)!!!!  Thank God!! 

Someone have more photos of this wheel? If so can post please? Thanks!

I know that for me, the Turbo S would be the better choice than the GT3 but money is a huge issue and I can't ignore it.

At least I have a choice...  

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

I enjoy the above liberal use of "best value" when speaking of the GT3. Porsche a long time ago stopped being good or best value

TEE:

I enjoy the above liberal use of "best value" when speaking of the GT3. Porsche a long time ago stopped being good or best value

So true...  GT3 with a couple of options...158k EUR. 991 Turbo S with a couple of options...202k EUR. Insane.

I have no alternative though here in Germany: Porsche still has a very good dealer network (repair shop, maintenance), the cars are pretty reliable (from my experience) and they do not attract too much attention (compared to the competition). I'm afraid Porsche is quite aware of this and takes advantage. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

pjd:

Is this the wheel? .... One word: WOW!!!!!!!!!!! Best wheel i see so far for the 991!!!! And a proper wheel for the Turbo!! Now i love the Turbo (s)!!!!  Thank God!! 

Someone have more photos of this wheel? If so can post please? Thanks!

 

Very attractive! Why it is not on the configurator?

"Form follows function"

Caution: This is a very dark photo and it is B&W, I would wait until a better photo is available.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

This new wheel option is very nostalgic!!! 

reginos:

pjd:

Is this the wheel? .... One word: WOW!!!!!!!!!!! Best wheel i see so far for the 991!!!! And a proper wheel for the Turbo!! Now i love the Turbo (s)!!!!  Thank God!! 

Someone have more photos of this wheel? If so can post please? Thanks!

 

Very attractive! Why it is not on the configurator?

Because it is available from November 2013. There are few other interesting options that will be available from November 2013.

This is the right choice IMO. The centre locking one is not fresh anymore, and the new Turbo wheel is too much Audi or BMW, somehow not right for this car.

"Form follows function"

Fully agree. This is how I will order it. CL wheel is available only in stupid polished look(and btw, I hate that spider design) and standard turbo multispoke wheel could looks nicelly on Panamera for example.

New Sport Classic wheel is simple hommage to Fuchs wheel. In standard form it is painted in GT Silver and optionally it is available in Black as on pics above.

Will they put wheels that are not centerlock style on the new turbo?  I thought it only came with centerlocks?

BTW - I am ordering those wheels for my 07 turbo.  Pictures when I get them mounted.

KresoF1:

Fully agree. This is how I will order it. CL wheel is available only in stupid polished look(and btw, I hate that spider design) and standard turbo multispoke wheel could looks nicelly on Panamera for example.

New Sport Classic wheel is simple hommage to Fuchs wheel. In standard form it is painted in GT Silver and optionally it is available in Black as on pics above.

Very nice wheels)

World Premiere of the new Porsche 911 Turbo in Moscow...

World Premiere of the new Porsche 911 Turbo in Moscow -- Video Link