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    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Is Porsche pricing itself out of the market?  Tricky question.  We will have t o wait to see the sales figures on the Turbo S.  My sense is that the sales will be much higher than we imagine now.  Why?  Because it is a fabulous car vis a vis its direct competition (Ferrari, Lambo, specifically). And because when you reach the $200k level, the demographics of the buyer changes.  Folks with this kind of money to throw at a super car don't notice the price that we mortals do.In a very real way, Porsche is pricing itself out of our market, not the market.  

    Also, we are falling into a bit of a Corvette versus Porsche argument all over again.  Sure the Corvette and Jag are cheaper and fast, but the question is--if you had $200K to spend without blinking--which would you buy?  Same question for houses, watches, clothes, art, colleges, etc….


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Wonderbar:

    Is Porsche pricing itself out of the market?  Tricky question.  We will have t o wait to see the sales figures on the Turbo S.  My sense is that the sales will be much higher than we imagine now.  Why?  Because it is a fabulous car vis a vis its direct competition (Ferrari, Lambo, specifically). And because when you reach the $200k level, the demographics of the buyer changes.  Folks with this kind of money to throw at a super car don't notice the price that we mortals do.In a very real way, Porsche is pricing itself out of our market, not the market.  

    Also, we are falling into a bit of a Corvette versus Porsche argument all over again.  Sure the Corvette and Jag are cheaper and fast, but the question is--if you had $200K to spend without blinking--which would you buy?  Same question for houses, watches, clothes, art, colleges, etc….

    Well that's the problem. For $200k you don't get a Turbo S over here. You get a C2S or a C4S with a couple options for that money. A Turbo S is over $300k and for that money you don't even get floormats!. If I wanted a Porsche and had to spend $200k, I would buy a Boxster or a Cayman and spend the rest of the money on other nice things.


    --

    Suzy

    2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic
    2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Switzerland is a very peculiar case for Porsche pricing. But in Germany and the UK you can buy a Carrera S for 105.000 EUR and end up with a very good spec (incl. AWD if you wish) for 120.000-125.000, USD equivalent of around 160.000.

    For me there is no substitute for a Carrera S (even within the Porsche range), unless I could reach the price level of a Huracan or elevate myself to something like the F12.

    The Turbo is a superb product but a waste of money IMO.

     


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Pricing is a very important part of any purchase. But some parts of the world like CHF are more extreme than others. Here in the US a 4S Cab would cost me about ~$145k with a good spec. My TTS with a even bigger spec cost me $200k. Now $200K is a lot of money. But for $55k more you get a hell of a lot more car for your money. But I do think Porsche is pushing pricing too high. Only a few years ago when I saw a new 997 TT Cab in the showroom for $147K I thought WOW! This was a big part of my feedback to Porsche on my purchase survey.


    --

    2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2012 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab. Range Rover V8 on order June14 - GT3 or Huracan to add next......decisions decisions decisions.....


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    reginos:

    The Turbo is a superb product but a waste of money IMO.

     


    --

    "Form follows function"

    IMvHO 991 Turbo S is a pure waste of money.

    I was almost shocked with my own comparison test drive of both Turbo and Turbo S(same day in Germany). No difference at all in acceleration till 280km/h. No differene is sound for me. I even liked standard brakes better since they are smoother at low speed modulation.

    Outcome-standard Turbo for me.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Do you consider PDCC as a must, after your comparison?


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    reginos:

    Do you consider PDCC as a must, after your comparison?


    --

    "Form follows function"

    Both cars had it. I did not drive Turbo without it.

    But, IMHO both PDCC and Sport Chrono are a must on standard Turbo option list.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    KresoF1:
    reginos:

    Do you consider PDCC as a must, after your comparison?


    --

    "Form follows function"

    Both cars had it. I did not drive Turbo without it.

    But, IMHO both PDCC and Sport Chrono are a must on standard Turbo option list.

    Thanks.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    FWIW - Porsche new car sales in the UK are up over 27% YTD compared with 2013. Not sure pricing is a problem?


    --

    991 (what a car!) XC90 - 120 Cab - 2 kids, 1 dog


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Wonderbar:

    Is Porsche pricing itself out of the market?  Tricky question.  We will have t o wait to see the sales figures on the Turbo S.  My sense is that the sales will be much higher than we imagine now.  Why?  Because it is a fabulous car vis a vis its direct competition (Ferrari, Lambo, specifically). And because when you reach the $200k level, the demographics of the buyer changes.  Folks with this kind of money to throw at a super car don't notice the price that we mortals do.In a very real way, Porsche is pricing itself out of our market, not the market.  

    Also, we are falling into a bit of a Corvette versus Porsche argument all over again.  Sure the Corvette and Jag are cheaper and fast, but the question is--if you had $200K to spend without blinking--which would you buy?  Same question for houses, watches, clothes, art, colleges, etc….

    The problem is once a buyer considers spending over $200,000 for a car, he has other options which reflect exclusivity. The standout drawback to a TTS at its price range is it very much looks like a 911 priced below $100,000. No doubt it has many more features and better performance yet it is still a 911. Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    bridggar:

    FWIW - Porsche new car sales in the UK are up over 27% YTD compared with 2013. Not sure pricing is a problem?

    The first time that I remember someone telling me that Porsche was pricing itself out of the market was forty years ago, so you have to give the company credit for being consistent. Smiley  


    --

    fritz


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    fritz:
    bridggar:

    FWIW - Porsche new car sales in the UK are up over 27% YTD compared with 2013. Not sure pricing is a problem?

    The first time that I remember someone telling me that Porsche was pricing itself out of the market was forty years ago, so you have to give the company credit for being consistent. Smiley  

    Hybrids and new Panamera are disasters Smiley

    New Macan will pick up sales (3~4 years), where panamera and cayenne will get a price hike which is again another dumb move from Porsche.

    918 is still available to anyone who can afford it  SmileyLaFerrari + P1 are all spoken for.

    Many customers cancelled their GT3 orders and shifted to Turbo or Huracan / 458 / MP4-12C.

    Is Porsche going to come out with a mute button for the exhaust in the next 911 facelift/generation and still charge over 250k with a 30hp bump ?  Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    You have a point but as long as customers buy the cars, well... 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:

    You have a point but as long as customers buy the cars, well... 

    That's exactly the problem. As long as people are buying, Porsche will try to push the boundaries further and further.Smiley

     


    --

    Suzy

    2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic
    2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    After 3 days of driving a 458 Spider around Lago di Como there is no way I am paying Ferrari money for a 911. Driving slowly has never been so much fun. The overall experience is so much more special that I wouldn't care that the Turbo S is slightly faster. Kudos the Porsche's marketing for being able to sell (and sell so well) a 911 for the same price as the 458 and the Huracan.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    I guess Ferraris are much cheaper there. My TTS Cab was $200k.....getting a 458 with similar spec would have cost me $350k....


    --

    2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2012 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab. Range Rover V8 on order June14 - GT3 or Huracan to add next......decisions decisions decisions.....


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    EnglishManInNY:

    I guess Ferraris are much cheaper there. My TTS Cab was $200k.....getting a 458 with similar spec would have cost me $350k....

    Was gonna say the same thing... 220K vs 370K for the specs I want.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    In EU situation is different. 991 Turbo S has the same base price as 458 Italia and Huracan is only marginally more expensive.

    Only 458 Speciale and 650S are more expensive(€30K in base price).


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    In the middle east my 991 TT cost me $159,275/= (OMR 61,560) spec'd out like a TTS but no PDCC or PCCB. My brother took delivery of his 458 Spyder today and it cost him twice as much at $310,478/= (OMR 120,000). 

    Just for the record, when I ordered my car, I initially wanted a heavily optioned Carrera 4S that would have been $18,000 less than my 991TT in early December. At that time, I had to decide between April 14 production for the C4S or January 14 production for the TT, and it was a no brainer. My car is also $20,802/= less than the TTS and I didn't want to deal with sqeeling PCCBs (out of experience with a 997.1 TT) so that was a win win.

    Couple of regrets: 1) Wish I opted for entry & drive, I really miss it. 2) I have the bi color agate/pebble interior, wish I had steering wheel stitching to go with the rest of the dash. Given another chance natural leather will be my only choice, nothing comes close to the smell or feel. 3) Standard rims looked ugly on the TT so I had to upgrade to 991 TTS CLs which can be a pain to remove or put on. Due to that, I m not comfortable to drive more than two hours away from my city because my only choice would be to have the car towed in case of a flat.    


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Which color natural leather would you get?  I'm not a fan of any of the options and am thinking of going with black interior.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Herbaliser:

    After 3 days of driving a 458 Spider around Lago di Como there is no way I am paying Ferrari money for a 911. Driving slowly has never been so much fun. The overall experience is so much more special that I wouldn't care that the Turbo S is slightly faster. Kudos the Porsche's marketing for being able to sell (and sell so well) a 911 for the same price as the 458 and the Huracan.

    I think a Porsche can be appreciated the longer someone uses it. Some exotics can become a PITA the longer the ownership.

    Many people always attribute the sales success of Porsche to marketing alone. Buyers are not a brainless species. They must know something too.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    keithos27:

    Which color natural leather would you get?  I'm not a fan of any of the options and am thinking of going with black interior.

    Considering the standard aluminum trim on the TT or Carrera, I would go with brown, its a better contrast than red. With  the TTS' CF trim, I would go with red natural leather and include the CF multifunction wheel. For some reason, natural leather bi color option is not available in this region.    


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Kreso, I don't doubt your message that in EU, the prices of the Italia and TTS are the same, but i sure find it a strange exception.  In the U.S. and apparently in all other markets, there is upwards of a 100K difference.  


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    I've covered almost 70 000 km driving my 997TT Cab for 7 years on daily basis on every possible road and weather conditions and I still believe that there's no other sports car like it in terms of overall versatility. But I remember that I paid for my Turbo cabriolet 177 000 EUR (I didn't get any discount). It was significantly faster, cheaper and better to drive than the 430 at that time. With the 458 vs 991 TT(S) this is not the case anymore.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    You can tell this with certainty, only after you have used your 458 for 7 years in the same manner like your 997 TT.

    Short term excitement vs Long term ability and service.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    reginos:

    You can tell this with certainty, only after you have used your 458 for 7 years in the same manner like your 997 TT.

    Short term excitement vs Long term ability and service.


    Only true to a certain extent. With Ferrari's seven years warranty service is not an issue. Smiley


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Rossi:
    reginos:

    You can tell this with certainty, only after you have used your 458 for 7 years in the same manner like your 997 TT.

    Short term excitement vs Long term ability and service.


    Only true to a certain extent. With Ferrari's seven years warranty service is not an issue. Smiley

    For seven years the owner doesn't have to pay anything at all? For faults, breakdowns, spares, maintenance parts and work?

    If so, I am sure that the cost is already built into the purchase price of the car. Moreover,  Ferrari must have calculated the cost on the true assumption that the typical owners don't cover significant mileages and therefore cars are not heavily challenged.

     


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Clients ordering a new Ferrari California, 458 Italia,FF, 458 Spider, 458 Speciale or F12berlinetta via the authorized dealership network will receive complimentary scheduled maintenance for the first seven years of the vehicle’s life.

    Genuine Maintenance is Ferrari’s exclusive program that helps to ensure that its vehicles are maintained to the highest level for maximum performance and safety.

    The program is unique- this is the first time a vehicle manufacturer offers such coverage worldwide and is evidence of the attention Ferrari gives to its clients.

    The Genuine Maintenance program covers the individual vehicle, and extends to any subsequent owner within the seven years.

    The program covers the scheduled maintenance labor along with the relative original spare parts, engine oil and brake fluid.

    The advantage to the owner is the assurance that the vehicle will be subject to regular annual inspections by Ferrari trained personnel using Factory-approved dedicated diagnostic equipment.

    For further information please contact an official Ferrari dealership.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    reginos:
    Rossi:
    reginos:

    You can tell this with certainty, only after you have used your 458 for 7 years in the same manner like your 997 TT.

    Short term excitement vs Long term ability and service.


    Only true to a certain extent. With Ferrari's seven years warranty service is not an issue. Smiley

    For seven years the owner doesn't have to pay anything at all? For faults, breakdowns, spares, maintenance parts and work?

    If so, I am sure that the cost is already built into the purchase price of the car. Moreover,  Ferrari must have calculated the cost on the true assumption that the typical owners don't cover significant mileages and therefore cars are not heavily challenged.

     


    --

    "Form follows function"

    It is 7 years maintenance only not warranty. The warranty is 3 years unlimited mileage (extendable for a fee) warranty.

    To extend for two more years (five years total), the cost is $9,600/=


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Thank you. Does the free maintenance also include brake pads. Also, I know that brakes are all ceramic now and in theory rotors don't wear out, so if they needed replacement outside the warranty period, would this fall under maintenance too?


    --

    "Form follows function"


     
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