Crown

KresoF1:

I will add this-excellent designs do not need FL. There wont be a FL of 458 Italia, Mercedes did not FL of SLS AMG.

+1

Specially i hate a facelift for a car that costs 200K and will be only 2 years "old"

i understand a facelift for an Audi but not for a 911.I understand an all new model after 6 years..but not a mid life change after 3/4 years of introduction.At least not for the high range of the series.

the 991 TT/GT come on sale after 2 years of the introduction of the new series,so the expensive models of the series are the ones with the shorter life.Really i don't understand.

They whant to make a restyling every 3 years,ok,so put on sale all the range of the 911 at the same time.

Stupid that one like me wait a car 3 years and then when will be  finally at home will be restyled in 12 months due the base model is "old" and that more or less is the "same" car.

Really if i hate something of Porsche...this is.

997TT RS Tuning stage II(sold),2011 Cayenne Turbo(sold),waiting 991 GT3 RS

SuzyF so if we think that all who will get the turbo on that year is stupid ? 

i would like you to name the ppl who got the 997.2 turbo S  when 991 Carrera was OUT on the street 

i dont think u have a valid point here .... its been this way for  along time ... and ppl keep buying other wise porsche will be stupid to continue 

:) cheeeeerz 

KresoF1:

I will add this-excellent designs do not need FL. There wont be a FL of 458 Italia, Mercedes did not FL of SLS AMG.

x2. Porsche can improve technical aspects of the car midway of its model lifespan, thats fine and welcomed,  but the only reason for the exterior design facelfit of a headlight cluster here and and air duct there is only to make the pre-facelift version "old" and force greater turn over.

I have been thinking for a while now about getting a 991 CarreraS but aside from the fact that it now Porsche decided to make the Carrera versions the worst value for money of the whole entire 911 model line, the facelift is right around the corner now so there is no way I'm dumping 150k for a car that next year will be facelifted "exteriorly" for no reason. Then I think that maybe spending those 150k for a very low milage slightly used 991TT may be a smarter move, but by the time those will be available the Turbo facelift will also be coming out...Unfortunately the GT3 (my favorite) is not practical for me for the amount of miles I will put on it per year and everyday use I will give it, and on top of it now they start burning up... I don't know, it may work out for them profit wise in the overall, but they are putting people like me off with all this.

The 997.2 facelift included a vastly different interior center console and touch screen navigation.  Some FL certainly do have exterior and interior changes.  One could also say that the 911 has only had face lifts since 1998 (!).

RC:

SuzyF:

RC:

I couldn't care less since the Turbo looks different than the Carrera (wider butt, side air inlets, LED lights, etc.).

It's still a 991... But I guess I'm very sensitive fot these kind of things  I hate to drive an "old" car, even if the majority of people doesn't see any differences. The fact that I know it, bothers me.  Unless a car is really old... Like a youngtimer or an oldtimer. 

This may be the reason why the 911 Turbo driver usually thinks a little bit different. When you ask them what they drive, they say 911 Turbo, not 911. For most of "us", the 911 Turbo is...a 911 Turbo, not a 911. I know this may sound weird but when you ask 911 GT3 or GT2 drivers, they usually tell you they drive a GT3 or GT2, not a 911.

You don't have to understand this but like I said before, I couldn't care less if the Carrera gets a facelift a year earlier or whatever as long as they don't transform it into a Turbo (oh well...they actually do but thats a completely different story ).

RC, I completely agree with Suzy on this one. It is ridiculous. This sort of policy does make the Turbo models look dated at least in the eyes of this buyer. Not enough for me cancel though.

sulaiman:

SuzyF so if we think that all who will get the turbo on that year is stupid ? 

i would like you to name the ppl who got the 997.2 turbo S  when 991 Carrera was OUT on the street 

 

i dont think u have a valid point here .... its been this way for  along time ... and ppl keep buying other wise porsche will be stupid to continue 

 

:) cheeeeerz 

 

 

Well... I never understood why someone would buy a new 2012 997 TTS, while the 991 Carrera is already introduced. At least in my view at this subject, I can 't help thinking that is stupid. I think I have a very valid point. It's been this way for a long time indeed, but does that mean that it cannot be changed?? Why a facelift after such a short time? The 991 doesn't need a facelift. It's a 911 for god's sake. A car that's 50 years old! Let them just make some minor inevitable MY changes every year. The design of the body can easily hold up for another 3-4 years.  Or just introduce all the models at once. (Or at least the regular models).

Like Darius says, he is waiting for his car to be introduced, for three years. If Porsche finally comes with the RS and they will start facelifting the car in the next half year, he definitely has a reason to be pissed IMHO. i would for sure....

--

Suzy

2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic
2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
 

Suzy we got your point, but Porsche`s experience is different when it comes to selling pre-FL models. People buy them like crazy and that is only result we should look on  When FL model comes out, people will buy them like crazy too That is called power of the brand (in this case Porsche) and Porsche is best in brand management game 

--

My new blog with automotive & motorcycle renders: tessoart.blogspot.com

You're right Milanno. I'll stop ranting about it. 

I think it just kinda hurts when you get more and more disappointed/frustrated in several ways by a brand you love since you were a kid. Can't help it....  

I think I should just shut up and enjoy the nice weather in my Pcar right now. 

--

Suzy

2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic
2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
 

Rossi:

RC:

What do Carrera and Turbo have in common again?

They are the same car.

To the vast majority they are all 911, no matter if they have a clean design or silly wings all around.
And IMHO you also can't compare facelift with modelchange. The latter is a real cut with new up to date technologies, but sometimes with a new design to which some customers first must to get used to, whereas the former is basically the same as the pre-facelift model but without the flaws of the first attempt.

If someone like you can be that wrong, what do I expect from other people who have even less a clue about the 911?

Check your facts. Also this would mean that the GT3 is the same car as the Carrera too? The GT3 shares more common parts with the Carrera 4 than the Turbo S with any Carrera model.

We can do this all day long but in my opinion, the 911 Turbo is not a 911 Carrera and never has been. Not even close.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)

DaveChapin:

RC, I completely agree with Suzy on this one. It is ridiculous. This sort of policy does make the Turbo models look dated at least in the eyes of this buyer. Not enough for me cancel though.

I am sorry but I do not feel that way. At all. For me, the 911 Turbo is the 911 Turbo. The 911 Carrera is the 911 Carrera. Two different models for me. I don't see any problem with a slightly different design. Facelifts are not game changers, they just change a few things, like tail lights or head lights and some minor design elements.

Also, performance is a different story. You just cannot compare a 997 Turbo S to the 991 Carrera S. Even the 997 Turbo S is in a completely different performance league than the 991 Carrera S, especially when considering straight line performance and power/torque output.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Milanno:

Suzy we got your point, but Porsche`s experience is different when it comes to selling pre-FL models. People buy them like crazy and that is only result we should look on  When FL model comes out, people will buy them like crazy too That is called power of the brand (in this case Porsche) and Porsche is best in brand management game 

--

My new blog with automotive & motorcycle renders: tessoart.blogspot.com

Ferrari is even better... fewer cars, stronger brand, and even harder to get the car you want WHEN you want.

With the exception of the LaFerrari maybe, I could get any Ferrari quite fast.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)

RC:

With the exception of the LaFerrari maybe, I could get any Ferrari quite fast.

Except when it's a new, custom ordered one 

Suzy

2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic
2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
 

SuzyF:

sulaiman:

SuzyF so if we think that all who will get the turbo on that year is stupid ? 

i would like you to name the ppl who got the 997.2 turbo S  when 991 Carrera was OUT on the street 

 

i dont think u have a valid point here .... its been this way for  along time ... and ppl keep buying other wise porsche will be stupid to continue 

 

:) cheeeeerz 

 

 

Well... I never understood why someone would buy a new 2012 997 TTS, while the 991 Carrera is already introduced. At least in my view at this subject, I can 't help thinking that is stupid. I think I have a very valid point. It's been this way for a long time indeed, but does that mean that it cannot be changed?? Why a facelift after such a short time? The 991 doesn't need a facelift. It's a 911 for god's sake. A car that's 50 years old! Let them just make some minor inevitable MY changes every year. The design of the body can easily hold up for another 3-4 years.  Or just introduce all the models at once. (Or at least the regular models).

Like Darius says, he is waiting for his car to be introduced, for three years. If Porsche finally comes with the RS and they will start facelifting the car in the next half year, he definitely has a reason to be pissed IMHO. i would for sure....

--

Suzy

2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic
2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
 

Me? 

Believe it or not, I traded in a 997.1 Turbo for the 997.2 Turbo S.

Funny story is, I went to pick my son up from school after I switched cars and he got in and only after a couple minutes did he realized it's a different car. 

I bought the Turbo since launch, so it was closing in on 5yrs old when I switched. To outsiders there is barely any difference. But to me and some of the motor heads here there is a big difference. New engine, new gearbox, new PCM system, new tail lights. The performance took a big jump from my Turbo to the Turbo S. 

RC:

Rossi:

RC:

What do Carrera and Turbo have in common again?

They are the same car.

To the vast majority they are all 911, no matter if they have a clean design or silly wings all around.
And IMHO you also can't compare facelift with modelchange. The latter is a real cut with new up to date technologies, but sometimes with a new design to which some customers first must to get used to, whereas the former is basically the same as the pre-facelift model but without the flaws of the first attempt.

If someone like you can be that wrong, what do I expect from other people who have even less a clue about the 911?

Check your facts. Also this would mean that the GT3 is the same car as the Carrera too? The GT3 shares more common parts with the Carrera 4 than the Turbo S with any Carrera model.

We can do this all day long but in my opinion, the 911 Turbo is not a 911 Carrera and never has been. Not even close.

C'mon, don't get pissed just because someone is writing something you don't want to hear.

Check my words: "To the vast majority they are all 911, no matter if they have a clean design or silly wings all around."

A California differs from a 458, technically and visually. A Carrera from Turbo? Technically yes, visually not so much.

Also please note something like this or this in the future.

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

SuzyF:

RC:

With the exception of the LaFerrari maybe, I could get any Ferrari quite fast.

Except when it's a new, custom ordered one 

That's what I was wondering... here in the southeast US if you are not a previous Ferrari owner the waiting list can be quite long for a NEW Ferrari (F12 is currently 3+ years).

Rossi:

 

C'mon, don't get pissed just because someone is writing something you don't want to hear.

Pissed? I was disappointed. Huge difference.

Check my words: "To the vast majority they are all 911, no matter if they have a clean design or silly wings all around."

I do not care about the vast majority, otherwise I would drive something completely different.

A California differs from a 458, technically and visually. A Carrera from Turbo? Technically yes, visually not so much.

I am sorry but even the 10-12 years old friends of my son recognize the Turbo. 

Also please note something like this or this in the future.

Maybe you should use more  or , so I really know you don't mean it seriously. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)

keithos27:

SuzyF:

RC:

With the exception of the LaFerrari maybe, I could get any Ferrari quite fast.

Except when it's a new, custom ordered one 

That's what I was wondering... here in the southeast US if you are not a previous Ferrari owner the waiting list can be quite long for a NEW Ferrari (F12 is currently 3+ years).

When I got that F12 offered last year, the car was in stock and I was even offered a lower price. Unfortunately I didn't plan to buy the car and the lease offer was way too expensive. I was very tempted though...up to a point where I even started an argument with my wife. Lucky for me (and her) , the lease offer was crappy.

In Europe, getting a flashy car (like a Ferrari) is a pretty delicate decision. You want to attract as less attention as possible and this is quite difficult in a Ferrari. The F12 is a great car with a great engine.

I love Porsche but if I could afford it, I would definitely get a F12 or a Huracan if I would live in a more socially relaxed environment.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)

I am on the same boat Rc.. You are so right.. I Live in Greece and I have my 458 all the time inside my garage. I drive my 997tt most of the time.. I believe the 991turbo S is crazy expensive. If i could afford a 3rd car now it would definetely be huracan. (But in a more socally relaxed environment ) ;)

F458

997turbo 4.1 Protomotve with syvecs ecu. Gt2rs Look
 

Pics of 991 Turbo in Antracite Brown Metallic with Sport Classic wheels in GT Silver, IMHO looks amazing.

Pic links borrowed from Rennlist.

+1

Love the Sport Classics.

Still not a fan of either brown or the Sport Classics.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)

not my cup of tea

RC:

Still not a fan of either brown or the Sport Classics.

Antracite Brown is not my favourite either.

In case of Sport Classics we disagree big time since I totally hate tasteless design of Turbo S CLs. If there were not alternative for this crappy CLs I would never consider to buy 991 Turbo S, I hate their design that much...

I saw this color on a TTS at my dealer and in person it looked very nice. 

2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2012 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab. Range Rover V8 on order June14 - GT3 or Huracan to add next......decisions decisions decisions.....

acrobat:
Any results from latest Sport Auto? (R8 V10 vs 991 Turbo)

991 Turbo(PDCC;PCCB)

0-100km/h: 3.1s

0-200km/h: 10.5s

Hockenheim: 1:09,6min(Dunlop Maxx R)

1613kg

KresoF1:

acrobat:
Any results from latest Sport Auto? (R8 V10 vs 991 Turbo)

991 Turbo(PDCC;PCCB)

0-100km/h: 3.1s

0-200km/h: 10.5s

Hockenheim: 1:09,6min(Dunlop Maxx R)

1613kg

Which proves that the advantage of the Turbo S lies mostly in the upper speed range (over 200 kph or 125 mph).

However, we had this before: If someone wants to order LED lights, PCCB and other goodies anyway, the Turbo S makes more sense. On the other hand, the regular Turbo can be a very interesting alternative if someone doesn't want to spend a fortune for a 911 Turbo S. Also, from what I heard, offers for the Turbo seem to be usually better than for the Turbo S, which seems to be in higher demand in some markets. So one can actually get a good deal on a regular Turbo and still have all the turbo fun in it.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2271K0iWUk

just  found it 

Cool video. 68f here today after the worst winter I have ever experienced. Tried Sports Plus and all I can say is - it's just obscenely rude at take offs and full throttle!

2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2012 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab. Range Rover V8 on order June14 - GT3 or Huracan to add next......decisions decisions decisions.....