31 mars 2013 18:32:49
- JimE60
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Catégorie: Porsche - 911 - 991
Langue: English
Région: Worldwide
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2 avr. 2013 14:34:59
- SoCal Alan
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Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only)
BiTurbo:
He says he cannot see why the 991 is a step forward compared to the 997... How is this possible as the suspension setup (grip on the front axle) alone makes the 991 far superior to the 997 
Strange to read this from a motor journalist.
Of ourse, lower prices would always be good 
Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only)
The turn in on the 991 is a huge step forward but it seems that many in the UK feel that the car is not as much fun to drive. If that is your view and fun is your priority then the 991 can't be a step forward. People will always want different things from their car but it does seem that the UK in particular is more out of step with Porsche's version of progress.
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Gen II Cayman S
3 avr. 2013 18:53:39
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Carlos from Spain
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MKSGR
Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only)
MKSGR:
He says he cannot see why the 991 is a step forward compared to the 997... How is this possible as the suspension setup (grip on the front axle) alone makes the 991 far superior to the 997
Of ourse, lower prices would always be good
x2 but coming from someone who out of all the posible features you would want on a sportcar mentions lack of DAB radio as the example why the new "911" is too expensive, I'm not suprised at his other comments. The icing is the last paragraph when he then mentions "hardcore 911 fans like myself" 
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3 avr. 2013 18:58:45
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sidicks
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En réponse de:
Carlos from Spain
Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only)
Carlos from Spain:
MKSGR:
He says he cannot see why the 991 is a step forward compared to the 997... How is this possible as the suspension setup (grip on the front axle) alone makes the 991 far superior to the 997
Of ourse, lower prices would always be good
x2 but coming from someone who out of all the posible features you would want on a sportcar mentions lack of DAB radio as the example why the new "911" is too expensive, I'm not suprised at his other comments. The icing is the last paragraph when he then mentions "hardcore 911 fans like myself"
And yet Evo magazine rate the new C4S extremely highly....
3 avr. 2013 20:08:42
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MKSGR
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En réponse de:
Carlos from Spain
Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only)
Carlos from Spain:
MKSGR:
He says he cannot see why the 991 is a step forward compared to the 997... How is this possible as the suspension setup (grip on the front axle) alone makes the 991 far superior to the 997
Of ourse, lower prices would always be good
x2 but coming from someone who out of all the posible features you would want on a sportcar mentions lack of DAB radio as the example why the new "911" is too expensive, I'm not suprised at his other comments. The icing is the last paragraph when he then mentions "hardcore 911 fans like myself"
"Hardcore fans" who cannot even feel the difference a totally new and outperfoming chassis makes 
3 avr. 2013 20:28:53
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Carlos from Spain
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MKSGR
Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only)
MKSGR:
Carlos from Spain:
MKSGR:
He says he cannot see why the 991 is a step forward compared to the 997... How is this possible as the suspension setup (grip on the front axle) alone makes the 991 far superior to the 997
Of ourse, lower prices would always be good
x2 but coming from someone who out of all the posible features you would want on a sportcar mentions lack of DAB radio as the example why the new "911" is too expensive, I'm not suprised at his other comments. The icing is the last paragraph when he then mentions "hardcore 911 fans like myself"
"Hardcore fans" who cannot even feel the difference a totally new and outperfoming chassis makes
Right! and so hardcore 911 fan that he switches to a Cayman because of the price and calls it the new 911
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4 avr. 2013 05:44:40
- BiTurbo
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Carlos from Spain
it better be April fools!
Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only)
The EVO verdict on the C4 was good but still not a ringing endorsement by their standards:
“Fans of old 911s might be nonplussed by the devastating, vice-free (or character-free?) competence of the above, but subjectively there feels slightly more to engage with in this car than the rear-wheel drive Carrera.”
This non-plussed reaction seems mostly to come from UK, especially in the magazines and forums (not so much Rennteam I’ll grant you). Even the Porsche driving consultant I met the other day admitted he was disappointed with the EPAS (like all of us though he was very impressed with the ride and handling).
All this got me wondering whether it has something to do with our roads – possible but there must be sufficient variety worldwide to cancel that out. Is it our tradition of the small, lightweight, highly interactive sports car distracting us – maybe but then their sales are miniscule compared to Porsche, even in the UK.
Then it struck me that something might have gone slightly awry in the engineering of the right hand drive conversion. Not a fundamental flaw per se but perhaps a final engineering calibration that is not quite as polished? As the steering now involves software, there are even more variables to be honed and left hand drive has got to take priority due to the volumes.
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Gen II Cayman S
Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only)
EVO is not just judging by numbers which is why I love EVO - as people like FUTCH or Jay Leno say : it's about how the car makes you feel. All these discussions from people talking about how planted a 991 vs a 997 is mostsurely cannot replicate any factory or magazin number on any racetrack in the world - except a launch control start....
- people should focus more of how much fun a car brings to them - one wants a cabrio - another the torque TT - a third a people's carrier with the beloved badge - but numbercruncing is mostly for those who will never drive/own one...
Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only)
- thank you for this remark ! I do like to follow threads rather than to comment on what has been said. Though, honestly speaking, I am getting a bit tired about the discussions / comments expressed here. I do drive my 997 with passion and enjoy looking at every GT3s (no matter which modell) when I see them on the track, but all the numbercruncing here really gets me to rather have a break from RT.
Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only)
BjoernB:
EVO is not just judging by numbers which is why I love EVO - as people like FUTCH or Jay Leno say : it's about how the car makes you feel. All these discussions from people talking about how planted a 991 vs a 997 is mostsurely cannot replicate any factory or magazin number on any racetrack in the world - except a launch control start....
..one of the best posts here ..your are fully correct. A Nissan GTr is faster than a Cayman 981 or the new boxster. Would I prefer the GTr? No..simple as that.
Would I buy a 991 (without GT3)? No - either. The article has a fair point. Simple economics here, if the price if the 991 was correct - it wouldnt loose 25k after 3000km..people are simply not willing to pay more for it. The fact that the 991S is overpriced can easily be seen by the fact that a 991 Gt3 isnt much more expensive..but a completely different car (OK - we havent driven it - but on paper there are serious changes)
For Porsche it doesnt matter - short term - one unit sold is unit sold. However, for the first time we see massive depreciation..and I wonder if people who lost a lot now from 997.2 to 991..will do it agian when the 991.2 or 992 is there. Porsche centres in Germany are overloaded with 991s..
And yes, I also agree, the new Caymen will be the new 911...I have planned a test ride already ..but Im also waiting on more info on the planned caymen with the new GT3 engine..
Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only)
MKSGR:
BiTurbo:
He says he cannot see why the 991 is a step forward compared to the 997... How is this possible as the suspension setup (grip on the front axle) alone makes the 991 far superior to the 997
Of ourse, lower prices would always be good
As MKSGR says, the guy is incompetent.
BUT he has a point with the prices of the 991s being too high... I happen to be pondering a move from Switzerland (we only have an 8 % VAT Tax here) to the US and did the obvious thing -;) - compared Porsche prices between the two countries. And I could not believe it!! I knew prices were cheaper in the US but not by this margin:
Switzerland GT3: CHF 190000.-, US USD 130000 (that's USD 70000 of difference!!)
Switzerland Turbo: CHF 227000-, USD 138000 (thats USD 100000 of difference!!!!)
In other words, Porsche is just squeezing and screwing the customers in Europe in unbelievable ways... Only positive take from that is that IF i should move, I will almost certainly pay visit to the local Porsche dealer..:-)
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turbolite
Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only)
Haven't driven one so I can't comment on that stuff, but I will say that the 991 price is way too high. The people who buy them are going to get absolutely crushed on the depreciation. 2013's are already trading like $20K under MSRP with barely any miles on them.
I'll bet you lose $30-40K on a Turbo in the first year if the price is as high as it seems like it will be.
Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only)
wedouglas:
Haven't driven one so I can't comment on that stuff, but I will say that the 991 price is way too high. The people who buy them are going to get absolutely crushed on the depreciation. 2013's are already trading like $20K under MSRP with barely any miles on them.
I'll bet you lose $30-40K on a Turbo in the first year if the price is as high as it seems like it will be.
That's probably true - but then: isn't this kind of depreciation normal for nearly all new cars 
7 avr. 2013 20:42:01
- Boxster Coupe GTS
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MKSGR
Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only)
It will be interesting to see what they do with the Porsche 991 GT2 and 991 GT2 RS...
...there were rumours the 991 GT2 RS could include a "power boost" inspired by the Porsche 911 GT3 R Hybrid...
Porsche 911 GT3 R Hybrid at Estoril -- Autocar video link
...any ideas on the 991 GT2 and 991 GT2 RS?
7 avr. 2013 21:13:02
- Enmanuel
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Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only)
hunterone:
But the 991 Turbo S stock wont have 620 HP. And our OPC confirmed that it wont reach MP4-12C performance in straight line but will do better on track.
The regular 991 Turbo will already reach MP4-12C straight line performance (3.3 sec. according to Sport Auto, new 991 Turbo rumored at 3.3 sec from 0-100 kph with Sport Chrono Plus).
The MP4-12C did 0-200 kph in 9.7 seconds according to Sport Auto, the new 991 Turbo is rumored to hit 0-200 kph in 10.5 seconds, the Turbo S is almost a second better (under 10 seconds).
So I'd say that the 991 Turbo already gives the MP4-12C a run for it's money and the Turbo S will probably have the same performance, if not even better.
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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4
Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only)
RC:
hunterone:
But the 991 Turbo S stock wont have 620 HP. And our OPC confirmed that it wont reach MP4-12C performance in straight line but will do better on track.
The regular 991 Turbo will already reach MP4-12C straight line performance (3.3 sec. according to Sport Auto, new 991 Turbo rumored at 3.3 sec from 0-100 kph with Sport Chrono Plus).
The MP4-12C did 0-200 kph in 9.7 seconds according to Sport Auto, the new 991 Turbo is rumored to hit 0-200 kph in 10.5 seconds, the Turbo S is almost a second better (under 10 seconds).
So I'd say that the 991 Turbo already gives the MP4-12C a run for it's money and the Turbo S will probably have the same performance, if not even better.
Christian,
Very interesting
Your figures of 991 Turbo are very close to 997.2 Turbo. Very small improve over last generation...
Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only)
artur777:Your figures of 991 Turbo are very close to 997.2 Turbo. Very small improve over last generation...
What do you expect? 918 performance? 
The straight line performance improvements are pretty good, 0-300 kph improvement will be even better and of course the 991 Turbo will do much better on the track than the 997 Turbo.
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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4
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