Crown

Mercedes are a different proposition to Porsche Reginos. Their brand has always been seen on a huge number of vehicles - cars, vans, heavy trucks, city buses, luxury coaches etc - so buyers are prepared for seeing lots of Mercedes vehicles on the road.

They have far greater global appeal to a much wider audience and effectively now compete at the top end of the volume sector. They make so many vehicles that they can afford for their average margin per unit to be much lower. They have managed to retain a presence in the luxury end of the market with the S class by throwing every bit of technology they can at it. They know the upper limits they can sell at after the disaster that was Maybach and sensibly now keep themselves within it. The SLS has proved to be a step too far up the pricing ladder and the follow up model will likely be more price competitive I believe.

The deals to be had on a new Mercedes in the UK are simply staggering as they are just chasing after volume now. They sell roughly 100,000 cars here a year so an average profit of only £1k per vehicle yields them a very handsome sum. It is certainly no longer a true premium brand here any more thanks to chasing volume. The same applies to Audi and BMW. Between them they have effectively taken over the market that Ford and GM dominated in the UK 20 years ago. Porsche have benefited massively here from that as buyers looking to have a more exclusive car switched over to them and were willing to pay a premium to do so. Will that continue in the longer term as volume increases? I doubt it. Go back to the late 80's and BMW and look at the sort of annual volumes BMW were producing and you'll see why Porsche will not stop at 200,000 in a much larger global market if buyers keep lining up.

ISUK:

Go back to the late 80's and BMW and look at the sort of annual volumes BMW were producing and you'll see why Porsche will not stop at 200,000 in a much larger global market if buyers keep lining up.

I thought about BMW's volumes, myself. When my father had a 518i, BMW were producing less than 200.000.

However, BMW as a standalone company had to expand for survival. VW are enormous and they don't need Porsche to sell 1million, so I think (hope) that they know where to stop.

"Form follows function"

VW influences Porsche a lot as far as I heard BUT mainly in the administration/management/financial department rather than product development department, which is a good thing. However, sales numbers have to go up to make the VW Group happy, so I guess that cars like the Macan or even a smaller Panamera will be the future of Porsche, which is a little bit sad. I also see a problem with the mass production image of the 911 lately, which is actually not really true. The Cayenne and the Panamera are mass production products, the 911 not so much. The public perception of course is different, which is unfortunate.

In my opinion, cars like the Panamera Hybrid but also like the Cayenne or Panamera Diesel, don't make much sense in the Porsche product line. Yes, they sell well (the Hybrid not so much) but still, I think that a Cayenne/Panamera Diesel destroyed a lot of Porsche's sports car reputation judging by the many talks I had with various people in the past A Cayenne S Diesel makes sense, a normal Diesel not so much. The current engine downsizing in the Panamera S/4S was also a bad idea in my opinion, especially since Mercedes and BMW are still using more prestigious engines in the same price class.

Also, why I get the profit margin doctrine at Porsche, I don't understand why for example the new 991 Turbo S didn't get more power. Yes, the reason apparently was cost (AWS and new PTM already costed a lot and there was no money left for a new engine development according to rumors) but if they put a "benchmark" product on the market, it should excel in ALL domains. Right now, the Turbo S excels in the chassis domain, no doubt about it but power-wise, the car is not really ahead of the competition, even if there are improvements. 

I don't know if VW Group is behind this but I think Porsche missed an opportunity to show the competition where the "hammer hangs" as we say here in Germany.

Also, please Porsche...bring back that turbo blow-off sound which has been present during development. It was an amazing sound but they removed it because somebody "up" didn't like it. I would LOVE it.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Porsche is not a sports car brand anymore but an upper premium brand that makes very good to top sports cars.

The Turbo S could have been faster but it could cost another 10% and dangerously closer to the exotics. IMO the Turbo S is at a good price for what it offers. Porsche should introduce the rumoured exotic with the flat 8 for those who wish to enter the into the stratospere in order to end the 911 vs the Exotics debate forever.

--

"Form follows function"

RC:

Also, please Porsche...bring back that turbo blow-off sound which has been present during development. It was an amazing sound but they removed it because somebody "up" didn't like it. I would LOVE it.

me too,if what i think is what i hope you hear

997TT RS Tuning stage II(sold),2011 Cayenne Turbo(sold),waiting 991 GT3 RS

Yesterday my dealer told me the car will be available in Q1/2015 - As the sale is still good Porsche decided to postpone. Also, they wouldn't influence with the Macan start (maybe the price difference is so small that they dont want to have people jump to the larger Cayenne and a old model would lower this risk - though the Macan can have a great start).

Further on he told me in June they will launch a "final edition" instead.

Super Darius:

RC:

 

Also, please Porsche...bring back that turbo blow-off sound which has been present during development. It was an amazing sound but they removed it because somebody "up" didn't like it. I would LOVE it.

 

me too,if what i think is what i hope you hear

u can hear it on my GT2 quite loudly - I found it "cool" at the beginning - now it's just annoying.....despite moderate 1.4 bar...

Will Porsche introduce a Cayenne Turbo S facelift at the same time it introduces the other models (like Porsche did with the 991 TTS?

Wont it be just a bigger version of the new McCann?

Wonderbar:

Will Porsche introduce a Cayenne Turbo S facelift at the same time it introduces the other models (like Porsche did with the 991 TTS?

I don't think so. It will be like with Panamera facelift - whole range and after a while a Turbo S

Wonderbar:

Will Porsche introduce a Cayenne Turbo S facelift at the same time it introduces the other models (like Porsche did with the 991 TTS?

With the availability of the Panamera Turbo S, I would say that chances are pretty good for that.  The Panamera Turbo S Facelift was delayed because Porsche had to put a lid on the "issues" they had with the previous Turbo S models. I also get a feeling that the next generation Cayenne will come two years after the facelift and not much later. The Macan will be a strong competitor for the Cayenne and since the Cayenne is priced at much higher levels, Porsche needs to do something about it.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Interesting point, Christian,

in Spain, taking into account the local emissions taxes, the Macan S Diesel is very close to the Cayenne Diesel price. I considered trading my Cayenne for a Macan, but it doesn't make sense at all trading it for a Diesel. The only Macan that I feel is right for me to trade my Cayenne is the Turbo.

Right now the Cayenne is in a weird positioning. Only the Diesel remains competitive vs the Macan. The petrol engine versions.... well, the Macan Turbo is a much better value proposition. I need to see the car in the flesh to see the rear room, but on paper Porsche needs to provide REAL value to the Cayenne. I suspect that the facelift will bring a price increase to properly position it  above the Macan. 

1987 911 Carrera 3.2 - 1992 964 Carrera 2 - 2012 Cayenne Diesel - 2013 Mini Cooper S - 1995 BMW318ti

What for when de new cayenne??

Yes, the Macan Turbo is actually the only Macan which actually "makes sense" but I am pretty sure that many customers will get the Diesel and the S because they are cheaper and/or have a lower consumption (Diesel).

When I compare the Macan Turbo to my Cayenne GTS, performance-wise, the Macan Turbo is actually a bargain. On the other hand, the Macan isn't really made for serious off-roading (yes, the Cayenne is...with the proper tires) and the back seats and luggage room seem to limit it's usability under certain conditions.

Nevertheless, I will probably go for the Macan Turbo because it allows me to keep another Porsche in the garage, a 911. If I would choose to get the next gen Cayenne Turbo or Turbo S, a second Porsche like the 911 would probably be out of the question. So I should actually thank Porsche for the Macan...I guess. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Asked my dealer for Macan turbo allocations... Waiting...

My dealer told me to expect a larger facelift than on Panamera. He said we might will see rear lights a la Macan, etc. 

Got this in today:

1. Cayenne facelift autumn 2014 (next year)

2. Cayenne Platinum edition(s) available early spring 2014

This came as a surprise because I didn't think the facelift would be presented 2014.

As always with rumors...take them with a grain of salt. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

When the 2.0 liter engines is introduced on Macan, it will make the most sense for where I live. Besides, I actually like the design of the car, much better than Cayenne, IMO. I hope the facelift on the Cayenne will get rid of those rear lights. 

ONUR

THE BEST CAR EVER 

11 E92 M3 CP - 09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

I posted the facelift date back in October on the previous page   I was told about the Platinum Edition of the current model around 7 weeks ago so this info must have been widely circulated within Porsche down to dealer level. I suspect the info I was given on the GTS versions of the Boxster and Cayman will therefore also prove to be true.

The half year sales figures for the Panamera show why the Cayenne facelift is going to be required. Prior to the facelift the Panamera sales figures were really dipping. I suspect that same thing will affect the Cayenne as there are newer rivals on the market for buyers to choose so winning both repeat and new business is tougher with the ageing design of the current car. Like it or not most buyers are fashion conscious and not "enthusiasts" so having the latest model matters to them. I was reading an interesting thread on another forum where a guy who has been selling Porsches since the late 60's says that has always been the case with most buyers choosing the 911 etc as a vanity statement first and foremost and a sports car second. Purists don't tend to like hearing things like that and have a rose tinted view of the past where every buyer was an avid petrol head looking for the best car they could get.

The Macan will certainly also steal some sales as buyers who don't need the space of the larger car switch to a more powerful version of the new car. Porsche therefore need to hurry along the launched of the revised Cayenne so that it does not look outdated next to it's newer sibling.

January to September figures are available and more accurate.

Sorry, I have not found how to link a picture to this forum...

http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=22&u=17842070

I remember when sex was safe and motor racing was dangerous...

ISUK:

I posted the facelift date back in October on the previous page   I was told about the Platinum Edition of the current model around 7 weeks ago so this info must have been widely circulated within Porsche down to dealer level. I suspect the info I was given on the GTS versions of the Boxster and Cayman will therefore also prove to be true.

The half year sales figures for the Panamera show why the Cayenne facelift is going to be required. Prior to the facelift the Panamera sales figures were really dipping. I suspect that same thing will affect the Cayenne as there are newer rivals on the market for buyers to choose so winning both repeat and new business is tougher with the ageing design of the current car. Like it or not most buyers are fashion conscious and not "enthusiasts" so having the latest model matters to them. I was reading an interesting thread on another forum where a guy who has been selling Porsches since the late 60's says that has always been the case with most buyers choosing the 911 etc as a vanity statement first and foremost and a sports car second. Purists don't tend to like hearing things like that and have a rose tinted view of the past where every buyer was an avid petrol head looking for the best car they could get.

The Macan will certainly also steal some sales as buyers who don't need the space of the larger car switch to a more powerful version of the new car. Porsche therefore need to hurry along the launched of the revised Cayenne so that it does not look outdated next to it's newer sibling.

The (final?) decision has been made recently. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

I agree that Cayenne facelift should come sooner than later, but FL doesn't seem to have helped Panamera at all.  A 31% decline even after FL--that's substantial.  Seems to argue for a next generation Panamera as soon as possible, or  Panamera sales will really drop off.  

Macan may have introduced a new dynamic to Porsche's regular FL and second generation progression.  The Macan has several exciting new design features, and introduces a "new car" element into  the buyer's mind, making buyers of other Porsche versions expect new designs and changes more quickly. 

Wonderbar:

I agree that Cayenne facelift should come sooner than later, but FL doesn't seem to have helped Panamera at all.  A 31% decline even after FL--that's substantial.  Seems to argue for a next generation Panamera as soon as possible, or  Panamera sales will really drop off.  

Macan may have introduced a new dynamic to Porsche's regular FL and second generation progression.  The Macan has several exciting new design features, and introduces a "new car" element into  the buyer's mind, making buyers of other Porsche versions expect new designs and changes more quickly. 

I don't know about the US but for Europe, the Panamera is the wrong car. This is why I believe that the next gen Panamera will look smaller and that Porsche decides to build a smaller Panamera (Pajun rumor). Both decisions make sense. The reason I got the Panamera was not only curiosity (and my wife's persuasion) but also the need and desire for a family 911.

At first, the Panamera didn't disappoint but after doing a couple of trips with the family and driving the car at the limit, I realized that there is no substitute for a 911. Not even the very good Panamera. So why bother with the large Panamera, it's shortcomings regarding the luggage room (and the missing fifth seat) if I can get almost the same in the (less attention attracting) Cayenne? It is very possible that other Panamera buyers made the same experience and/or had the same expectation(s).

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

The #1 problem for the Panamera is the price... should be at least 15% cheaper...

#2 problem is the small trunk

#3 is that is sits only 2 in the back

Couldn't agree more!

1987 911 Carrera 3.2 - 1992 964 Carrera 2 - 2012 Cayenne Diesel - 2013 Mini Cooper S - 1995 BMW318ti

Agree with all of you! Yes, it's a bespoke vehicle designed by Porsche from the ground up, but its price was always forbidding.

Interestingly, the Kuwait market is flooded with used pre-facelift Panameras. The facelifted car isn't selling very well at all according to my salesman; people don't like the price increase on an already expensive car and they see the facelift as too subtle to matter so a lot opt for a slightly used pre-FL car. I've only seen two on the road since the car launched so... probably not as successful as anyone here would really like.

rulesdontapply

2008 Porsche Boxster S PDE2
2012 Porsche Cayenne S

Platinum Edition announced: http://www.porsche.com/uk/aboutporsche/pressreleases/pag/?pool=international-de&id=E4965644CEAFF06DC1257C3200510293

Facelift must be on its way ..

sfo:

Platinum Edition announced: http://www.porsche.com/uk/aboutporsche/pressreleases/pag/?pool=international-de&id=E4965644CEAFF06DC1257C3200510293

Facelift must be on its way ..

The current Platinum edition isn't what I expected... 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

No, I don't think people will be running to the dealer to get this edition.

2012 Cayenne S White/Espresso 

Ex: 993 Targa, 986S, 986 and 964 C2

UK Platinum Edition pricing gives about £4.5k worth of extras for £2k additional cost.

Quite a wide colour choice too, and all standard options also appear to be available.