Crown

All will become clear next weekend! If anyone find a scoop online in the meantime please post it here first!

If your source is correct about the bad surprise about the price tag for the 3, can we assume the price tag on Turbo will be a bad surprise as well?

I think you will find the price of all 991 variants vs the outgoing 997.2 variants is a bad suprise!

Remember the 991 GT3 has (almost certainly) PDK-S as standard. In Europe I believe thats a 5000 Euro option. Then you must remember if roumor is true the car is based on C4S body so there again is a further premium. Now if you take the outgoing 997.2 GT3 (98,000 Euro + tax in germany MSRP) and you add 10% which seems to be the 991 v 997 general price increase (exchange rate, new technology etc) and then add 5000 Euro and say another 3000 euro to compensate for the wider body you end up with a 116,000 Euro + tax car. Lets say 138k Euro retail as base spec.  Thats 180K usd. I believe they will be cheaper in the USA than anywhere else so you guys will probably be lucky and find teh price is "only" 150k USD plus local luxury tax and options....

macca993:

Will the new 911 GT3 have a PDK gearbox only? Back to the subject matter LOL!

Because you catch higher revs in the next gear and stay longer on the power band.

--

ONUR

THE BEST CAR EVER 

11 E92 M3 CP - 09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

RC,

As already with Kreso, you will be absolutely right I fear.....

Nevertheless, I will just add a story which happened to me yesterday , and which all summarizes as well how DUMB we are considered in Europe by Porsche.

I'm currently in vacation in Florida, and we were yesterday out for some shopping in Miami , Aventura Mall.

There was some cars in exhibition in the mall, and among them a nice white C4S from Champion Pompano beach (amazing dealer by the way ), almost full option, with PSE, PDK, sport chrono, sports seats,leather, PCM  etc etc..... For 124 000 dollars ! Add  VAT, convert to euro (1,32) and then you have the price  : 105 000 euro ! Without potential rebate  you can probably get from Champion .

This is for me absolutely insane : I understand dollar is week, but I can not understand that overall difference is so big !

911 are manufactured in EU, so add as well quite costly container transportation, and you understand why we are paying so much in Eu : we pay for the others lol

so I can imagine price for US of new GT3 will be higher then previous one, but still a bargain compared o what we have to pay in EU.

If you want to have a look, they have plenty of car to sell, all around 130k, which is 105 k for us .......

are we milk cows always in Europe ? We pay ridiculous taxes for environment (cars are only 5% of pollution), we need to pay premium for cars produced in our countries ...... The world is turning bad I guess ........

997 Carrera S Triple Black Sold now ... Good car 997 GT3 triple black wow what a car !!!

Thierry.

Come and live in New Zealand. The Switzerland of the Pacific. 

The new 991 GT3 will list in NZ will retail for 270,000 USD! We have no import duties but that price includes our VAt of only 15%. Can you imagine why a RHD 991 GT3 should cost an extra 120,000 USD in freight to get from Stuttgart to New Zealand rather than the USA! This is why Porsche in NZ (and around the world) need their heads checked. 

In Europe they have kept the difference just bearable so its marginal to buy a car from a US dealer and ship it back to Germany (because youll pay the additional 21% VAT, shipping insurance and road compliance) but for New Zealand, Australia and Japan and other smaller nations they are taking the piss and we are also helping to subsidise the US car buyer (no offence to US folk, Im very envious!).

Now people in NZ are shopping in UK and Europe for their new Porsche as its cheaper even paying the double tax. The NZ$ is strong compared to Euro and GBP so you cant blame them.

IMHO Porsche have a major issue with their global pricing model and its causing massive arbitrage. If they dont sort it out they will loose custom at a local level! I hope they read this...

In India, cars are twice the cost of Europe. We have 108% import custom duty + 12% VAT + other fees like road tax etc.  As a country, we're as poor as dirt but have to pay huge prices & drive on some of the crappiest roads on the planet. But this is not Porsche's fault, its the damn government 

Porsche sells many cars in the US allowing for cheaper price because of volume discount (each country in europe still have their own distribution channels). I think the US dealer sells the most cars per dealer in the world. Owning a dealership is much cheaper because it costs less $$ to run a company here. Cost of transporting a car is cheap ($3k max). US upper middle class is much larger than in europe so they have more potential costumers. Many upper middle class households have more than two cars. And last owning a Porsche in the US is cool as a status symbol, unlike in europe.

That said, Porsche needs to be careful because people will turn to very nice 2-4 year old models with low mileage for significant discounts. What will happen in the end is that you will be able to get bigger discounts for a new one from the dealer. It is easy to get 5% discount, soon that number should be closer to 8%...

VW who owns Porsche made in PROFIT last year $24 Billion dollars. I doubt they are concerned about their pricing.

With tax in the US the C4S would be around $150,000. Most that buy a Porsche use it as a daily car. Who would pay that much for an impractical daily car?

Nberry,

you are fully right. But I even doubt it is going in the 150k range.

examplegiven, this nice white C4S in the mall in Miami : 124900 dollars sales tax is 6% in Florida, so the full price will be 132 000 euro.

xrate at 1,32 so this car would cost 99 500 euro !!!

I m sure if I go to Porsche center in Luxemburg, this car will be at min 135k ....

I will find a new job in Florida and move there lol ! Weather is better and cars bargains !,!

Without any joke,, I find this a bit sad to have such differences. They will sell as we'll much new cars in Europe with such prices !

I m still wanting to buy the new GT3, but not at a such high cost. So if RC is right (and. Fortunately he is always.....), if the price is a realm bad surprise, I will not buy one. Period.

And I guess a couple of  previous 997.2 owners will do the same.Depreciation will be massive and loosing money like this is not my pleasure......

so when can we have US prices in Europe ??.?

997 Carrera S Triple Black Sold now ... Good car 997 GT3 triple black wow what a car !!!

Wait you see how much you need to pay for health care in the US once Obama is done...

thierry:

I will find a new job in Florida and move there lol ! Weather is better and cars bargains !,

First try to find a job in Florida and second a job that pays nearly as good as yours in Lux. Salaries in the US are a lot lower than in most European countries. 

Our Nanny makes more than the median houshold income in the US... 

--

2012 Cayenne S White/Espresso 

Ex: 993 Targa, 986S, 986 and 964 C2

Depends where you are but good luck trying to find a good nanny for the median houshold income in the US... You need to pay much more.

SciFrog, you said "And last owning a Porsche in the US is cool as a status symbol, unlike in europe".  Really?  I never really considered my 911s (I've had 6) as much of a status symbol. . . they are pretty common here and most peeps can't tell the difference b/t a 996 and a 991.  I was in Munich last May, and in Cologne a few weeks ago. . . the few newer pcars just seemed to stand out. 

In Munich I was meeting with head lawyers at BMW so I didn't get a chance to talk porsches much; would not have gone well in the executive lunch room.  LOL.  But I have 4 Germans on staff in my firm and they love porsches and consider bmw's to be pedestrian.  Never asked about benzes but probably the same especially since all the cabs over there are benzes.

Anyway, on topic, I'm on the wait list for the GT3, and predict 135k base price in the US.  I have a weird feeling we'll get a manual option in the RS and maybe later in production for the GT3.  If so. . . . I'll be waiting.

Or buy an F430 manual for the same price.

thierry:

Nberry,

you are fully right. But I even doubt it is going in the 150k range.

examplegiven, this nice white C4S in the mall in Miami : 124900 dollars sales tax is 6% in Florida, so the full price will be 132 000 euro.

xrate at 1,32 so this car would cost 99 500 euro !!!

I m sure if I go to Porsche center in Luxemburg, this car will be at min 135k ....

I will find a new job in Florida and move there lol ! Weather is better and cars bargains !,!

Without any joke,, I find this a bit sad to have such differences. They will sell as we'll much new cars in Europe with such prices !

I m still wanting to buy the new GT3, but not at a such high cost. So if RC is right (and. Fortunately he is always.....), if the price is a realm bad surprise, I will not buy one. Period.

And I guess a couple of  previous 997.2 owners will do the same.Depreciation will be massive and loosing money like this is not my pleasure......

so when can we have US prices in Europe ??.?

Wait, this particular car (911 C4S) would cost over 280k euro in Turkey. 

ONUR

THE BEST CAR EVER 

11 E92 M3 CP - 09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

With all the belly-aching about relatively lower Porsche prices in the US, and European Porsche customers subsidizing US Porsche customers, the obvious question that came to mind is this: is it only Porsches that show such a discrepancy, or is it all car brands? In other words, if we were to use a VW GTI or a Honda Civic as a measuring stick, what would we find?

In the US, a base GTI is $24,800 including delivery but not taxes. A base 991S is $99,850. So that's 4 GTIs to get one 991S. Setting aside differences in standard equipment across countries (e.g., TPMS and garage opener are standard in the US, but optional in Europe), what would this comparison look like in Germany or Luxembourg or France?

Quick check using Porsche Germany's configurator shows a base 991S at  105,000 Euros, inkl. MwSt. And over at Volkswagen.de, I see the GTI starting ab 27,700. No mention of MwSt, but I assume it's included. So the ratio is... Surprise surprise! It's only 3.8!!! So using GTIs as the currency, a 991S is less expensive in Germany than in the US!!!

So there. It turns out poor VW GTI buyers in the US are subsidizing rich European Porsche customers! Tsk tsk tsk.

Perhaps the Economist should change their Big Mac index to a Porsche 991 index.

http://www.economist.com/content/big-mac-index

Head of Porsche R&D Wolfgang Hatz warns CAR magazine that the old order is changing...

“I’m not a professional driver, but it’s easy for me to drive below eight minutes at the Nürburgring with the new 911 Turbo. With the 911 Carrera I do 8, 8:05, 8:10 – there’s at least 20 seconds difference. And the difference from my time to the real professional is always another 15-20 seconds...

It’s unbelievable what we achieved with the 991, but the next Turbo will take the 911 to a new level. We do a lot of comparison tests, with Italian, Japanese and British cars, and we have a good feeling about the new 911 Turbo. And I will be honest, we will not have a manual anymore.

We will have PDK on the new GT3. But don’t worry, because it’s incredible what the new car does. I drive a 997 GT3 RS 4.0 – which is now in the garage because I won’t put winter tyres on it – and although I will take it out next spring, the new GT3 will be really nice. We have some good news for you.

Hans Mezger [Porsche’s legendary engine-builder and father of the race-derived engine in every GT3] was my boss more than 20 years ago, and we have a very good relationship. But with the RS 4.0 the story of his race engine converted for production is coming to an end. Now we are coming from the other side, with a lot of racing experience. The new GT3 is big fun, and a big step forwards.

I speak fluent Italian and found out that Nardo [an industry test track in southern Italy] was for sale, and I convinced the Porsche board to buy it. We will not close it to others. We cannot use it 100%. Some Italian manufacturers were nervous, but I know [Ferrari boss] Amedeo Felisa very well, he’s a friend of mine, and I’ve told him ‘No problem, you can use the track’. It’s a strategic investment, not to make money, but because having such a facility in your portfolio is a big advantage.

The new Le Mans car will not use a flat-six, but I cannot tell you what engine it has because not even Wolfgang Dürheimer [Hatz’s predecessor at Porsche, now head of R&D at Audi] knows. The first race of the LMP1 car will be the first round of the World Endurance Championship in 2014. We are in good shape: we already have 150 people sitting in one building; 20 metres away there’s a new workshop for the engine, transmission, hybrid and other systems. In 30 seconds you can have everyone together.

We have not yet decided when we will start production of the small turbo engine or which car it will be run in. But it will not be in the 911 – the 911 is a six-cylinder, that’s the right engine. On the Boxster a four-cylinder may present an opportunity...”

Source: CAR Magazine (March 2013)

Are you familiar with corporate puffing?

bluelines:

SportCarGroup:

What is this spoiler??

 

That is a better looking spoiler. I don't think anyone knows if this is the real deal or just an early prototype.

I would not mind a spoiler delete option to only keep the ducktail 

Indeed this spoiler that was spied is the actual spoiler we have now. :)

So it was no corporate puffing but actually a very accurate description of the future... 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)