Crown

Gnil:

As fast as a  991 Carrera 

Pretty much. In straight line this A45 will probably kill new Cayman S.

More here: http://www.netcarshow.com/mercedes-benz/2014-a45_amg/

wow.....great spec

that's going to be one fast car!!!

my concern is I will get bored of the look very soon...

BMW 1 M + C63. 

Pretty impressive and considering the price tag... 

This will also put a lot of pressure on the competition.

Now Porsche will be somehow in trouble too, reputation-wise: How can they explain to customers why a under 50k EUR hatchback is faster from 0-100 kph than all Boxster/Cayman models incl. the 991 Carrera?

The A45 AMG will sell well in certain regions but I also think that insurance cost will be very high for this car because in this price range, many unexperienced drivers are going to go for this car, making more accidents in the process.

I am curious about Porsche's Panamera facelift because it will be an indication of where they are going power-wise but to be honest, it will be a tough one for them. AMG started to attack and BMW M GmbH won't be far behind. 

Interesting times ahead and I am really curious how premium manufacturers like Porsche or even Ferrari will react to the challenge.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

RC:

I am curious about Porsche's Panamera facelift because it will be an indication of where they are going power-wise but to be honest, it will be a tough one for them. AMG started to attack and BMW M GmbH won't be far behind. 

Or Audi. They've just announced the RS6 with 560 hp and are already talking about a Plus-Version with up to 616 hp.

http://www.evocars-magazin.de/2013/02/01/audi-rs6-avant-plus-kommt-mit-bis-zu-616-ps/

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

RC:

Pretty impressive and considering the price tag... 

This will also put a lot of pressure on the competition.

Now Porsche will be somehow in trouble too, reputation-wise: How can they explain to customers why a under 50k EUR hatchback is faster from 0-100 kph than all Boxster/Cayman models incl. the 991 Carrera?

The A45 AMG will sell well in certain regions but I also think that insurance cost will be very high for this car because in this price range, many unexperienced drivers are going to go for this car, making more accidents in the process.

I am curious about Porsche's Panamera facelift because it will be an indication of where they are going power-wise but to be honest, it will be a tough one for them. AMG started to attack and BMW M GmbH won't be far behind. 

Interesting times ahead and I am really curious how premium manufacturers like Porsche or even Ferrari will react to the challenge.

Christian,

I think Ferrari is still in the lead and way ahead in the competition. 

The all new F70 will be the new benchmark for the forseeable future;

FF has no competition really;

F12 is the benchmark in Front engine-RWD GT Cars. It is so good that they compare it against Aventador and Huayra which are middle engine-super sports cars.

458 is still in the lead for sports cars segment and only serious competition comes from Mp4-12C. Still most of the reviews favor 458 in driving fun and excitement factors. Nevertheless, Scuderia version of the 458 is just around the corner which will crush the whole competition and I believe it will be rated against super-sports.

The only weak chain is the California which is getting old but still doing just fine against 911 Cabrio, Aston Martin, SL, M6 cabrio etc. I would prefer Cali. 30 over all of them. 

--

ONUR

THE BEST CAR EVER 

11 E92 M3 CP - 09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

The new 991 Turbo will eat the 458 for breakfast...just wait and see.  Porsche has a 458 for comparison testing.

I cannot argue about the F12, amazing car indeed but no AWD unfortunately.

I know that you are addicted to Ferrari now but unfortunately this is a brand which in Germany, you cannot drive without being labeled a pimp or a super rich person. Both are not good in Germany, so for me, Ferrari is out of the question and I barely know people over here driving one. It remains an exotic for many reasons, which is sad but this is reality.

The F70 is a super sports car in a different price range but speaking of benchmarks, I haven't really seen a real competitor to the Bugatti Veyron Super Sport from any sports car company. For me, this is the benchmark and I doubt the F70 will beat it. 

It will be much tougher for Porsche in the foreseeable future but this doesn't mean it will be easier for Ferrari. Look at the current used car prices in Germany and you may get a hint. Right now, this is not the environment to show wealth in a "in your face" way and some car companies are aware of that, especially in Europe. Obama started an envy driven policy in the US too, so symbols of wealth will still be bought in the US but I can imagine that many rich people will start to buy less obvious luxury products, to avoid attracting too much attention. It already started in some regions of the US and I wouldn't be surprised if it continues to hit the regions where people, until now, were showing off their wealth without any hesitation. I don't say I agree, people should do whatever they want with their money as long as they do not harm others but the world is changing and many politicians are trying to win a majority by blaming the "filthy rich" and their lifestyle for many of our problems. It makes me sad to see that even the somehow wealthier middle class started to believe this crap, I have friends who are much more wealthy than me, driving even two Bentleys but you should listen to their hate tirades about bankers, bonuses and people who make too much money. Oh well... 

I know you love Ferrari but the competition will be getting much stronger over the next couple of years, especially with new emissions regulations, safety regulations and other stuff going on right now. Ferrari is a small brand and at some point, they will have serious problems if they don't grow. Growing on the other hand makes their products less unique, so it won't be easy for them. They also lack a SUV and a sedan, which are essential for emerging markets but I think that sooner or later, they will build this stuff too. Maserati just doesn't cut it for many in these markets.

Interesting times ahead... 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

RC:

The new 991 Turbo will eat the 458 for breakfast...just wait and see.  Porsche has a 458 for comparison testing.

Well, do you really think the new Turbo can outrun the mighty 458 that easily? And what is with the next Scuderia based on the 458? I don't doubt your knowledge, I just think that all those cars have already reached such a high level that it could be quite difficult for a new car to outclass its opponents which are already on the streets. Just take a look at the MP4-12C: how has it been praised for being the ultimate car in its class, CF-body, 600 horses, state-of-the-art chassis bla, bla, bla. And how did it turn out? Sure it's a great car, but is it better than a 458 overall? They even raised the power by 25 (!) horses within the first year of production, I guess they didn't do that because Ron Dennis is so generous.

So all I wanted to say is that all those cars are already so good. Great for us customers BTW.

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

RC:

The new 991 Turbo will eat the 458 for breakfast...just wait and see.  Porsche has a 458 for comparison testing.

Interesting times ahead... 

Christian,

I agree with you about the "the interesting times ahead".

But, 991 Turbo has not started production yet and I don't think customer cars will be delivered before September.

So it is not in the competition yet ;) IMO, 911 GT3 is a more direct competition to 458 than 991 Turbo. Again, it will be roughly equal to 458 when it is released.

Besides, it can be only faster than 458 on a straight line. The track times will be comparable and driving extasy will be much higher with the Ferrari.

I also admit that I'm little biased. 

BTW, in Turkey, a Ferrari isn't welcome much either. Most of the time, I drive my 458 at nights or Sunday morning.

--

ONUR

THE BEST CAR EVER 

11 E92 M3 CP - 09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

pride355:

BTW, in Turkey, a Ferrari isn't welcome much either. Most of the time, I drive my 458 at nights or Sunday morning.

Isn't that a shame?

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

Despite Obama efforts, I have not yet seen signs of people hiding their wealth in the US. Actually maybe on the contrary, rich people are saying: "you know what, raise the taxes all you want, I'll find a way to pay less anyway". The ones crushed will once again be the middle and upper middle class. They don't drive Ferraris, but low end Porsches, Audi and such...

90% of the population will have to accept lower standard of living one way or the other. 46 million people on food stamps. One out of 14 workers on disability. You can't raise taxes enough to pay for all that. Free pre-k in the US? Most towns can't even have full time kindergarten around the rich suburbs, let alone the poor ones.

Rossi:

RC:

The new 991 Turbo will eat the 458 for breakfast...just wait and see.  Porsche has a 458 for comparison testing.

Well, do you really think the new Turbo can outrun the mighty 458 that easily? And what is with the next Scuderia based on the 458? I don't doubt your knowledge, I just think that all those cars have already reached such a high level that it could be quite difficult for a new car to outclass its opponents which are already on the streets. Just take a look at the MP4-12C: how has it been praised for being the ultimate car in its class, CF-body, 600 horses, state-of-the-art chassis bla, bla, bla. And how did it turn out? Sure it's a great car, but is it better than a 458 overall? They even raised the power by 25 (!) horses within the first year of production, I guess they didn't do that because Ron Dennis is so generous.

So all I wanted to say is that all those cars are already so good. Great for us customers BTW.

Over 10 seconds on the Nordschleife so far...and counting. 

Yes, I agree...for potential customers, the current development in the sports car and car development is an amazing opportunity to be able to drive cars which are amazing, performance and handling wise.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Rossi:

pride355:

BTW, in Turkey, a Ferrari isn't welcome much either. Most of the time, I drive my 458 at nights or Sunday morning.

Isn't that a shame?

This is what I am talking about. Isn't it really a shame? Other people, people who probably even profit from us in a way or another, telling us what we can do with our money? The media is to blame and of course politics too. If politicians were more prudent and the media less sensation oriented, the social environment for luxury products would be much better.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Rossi:

pride355:

BTW, in Turkey, a Ferrari isn't welcome much either. Most of the time, I drive my 458 at nights or Sunday morning.

Isn't that a shame?

Yes, it is. Unfortunately my country is not a place for motorheads. We have the highest taxes on poorest roads. 

But I have nothing to do about it 

ONUR

THE BEST CAR EVER 

11 E92 M3 CP - 09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

RC:

Rossi:

RC:

The new 991 Turbo will eat the 458 for breakfast...just wait and see.  Porsche has a 458 for comparison testing.

Well, do you really think the new Turbo can outrun the mighty 458 that easily? And what is with the next Scuderia based on the 458? I don't doubt your knowledge, I just think that all those cars have already reached such a high level that it could be quite difficult for a new car to outclass its opponents which are already on the streets. Just take a look at the MP4-12C: how has it been praised for being the ultimate car in its class, CF-body, 600 horses, state-of-the-art chassis bla, bla, bla. And how did it turn out? Sure it's a great car, but is it better than a 458 overall? They even raised the power by 25 (!) horses within the first year of production, I guess they didn't do that because Ron Dennis is so generous.

So all I wanted to say is that all those cars are already so good. Great for us customers BTW.

Over 10 seconds on the Nordschleife so far...and counting. 

Yes, I agree...for potential customers, the current development in the sports car and car development is an amazing opportunity to be able to drive cars which are amazing, performance and handling wise.

I guess you are comparing WR times with H.V.S.

--

ONUR

THE BEST CAR EVER 

11 E92 M3 CP - 09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

RC:

Rossi:

pride355:

BTW, in Turkey, a Ferrari isn't welcome much either. Most of the time, I drive my 458 at nights or Sunday morning.

Isn't that a shame?

This is what I am talking about. Isn't it really a shame? Other people, people who probably even profit from us in a way or another, telling us what we can do with our money? The media is to blame and of course politics too. If politicians were more prudent and the media less sensation oriented, the social environment for luxury products would be much better.

The ironic part is that most of these cars that are not "socially acceptable" in Europe are European cars and if you buy a cheaper car there is a better chance it is manufactured in a lower wage environment.

palenimbus:

The ironic part is that most of these cars that are not "socially acceptable" in Europe are European cars and if you buy a cheaper car there is a better chance it is manufactured in a lower wage environment.

Exactly.  I also hate all these idiots who shop for the lowest prices but get offended by reports that workers in China have lower wages or that Amazon (the current "scandal" in Germany) pays low wages to Spanish workers who came over for Christmas seasonal jobs at their packing facilities in Germany.

We want cheap cheap but at the same time we want people to earn maximum wages and have all the benefits we have over here in the West. It would be easily achievable if we are ready to pay at least 50% more for products than we pay now. As if we don't have enough problems here... 

The brother of a good friend works in acquisition for a large clothes retailer in Europe. They had to stop doing business with a factory in China because there had been a report about low wages for the workers there. When he visited that factory for a last time to transfer some of the workload to another factory, some of the workers there approached him with tears in their eyes to keep the contract with their factory because they would loose their jobs otherwise and would have nothing to do. We in the West want freedom and justice for everyone in the world but we don't seem to realize that our actions sometimes hurt many people without us even realizing it. It is good to put pressure on some manufacturers in low wages regions but at the same time we shouldn't forget that without these manufacturers, most of the workers there would be without a job. Take China for example: Just imagine a couple of hundreds of millions without a job...a new revolution and a major military conflict in the region wouldn't be far behind.

We in the West need to stop to be smartasses. Pronto.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

pride355:

Rossi:

pride355:

BTW, in Turkey, a Ferrari isn't welcome much either. Most of the time, I drive my 458 at nights or Sunday morning.

Isn't that a shame?

Yes, it is. Unfortunately my country is not a place for motorheads. We have the highest taxes on poorest roads. 

But I have nothing to do about it 

But with so high taxes insignificant number of cars (relative to the size of the economy) in the higher price brackets are sold, and therefore the government has hardly any aggregate tax revenues. Lower tax rates would result in more sales and hence much higher total tax revenue. Perhaps, the priority and the purpose of this measure is to reduce imports and the amount of currency leaving the country.

--

"Form follows function"

trev0006:

 

http://www.dpccars.com/car-videos-13/02-13-13page-Mercedes-A45-AMG-Hatch.htm

 

Mercedes A45 AMG Hatch standing at 355hp (360PS) and 332 lb-ft (450Nm), which Mercedes-Benz says makes the 2.0-liter unit "the most powerful series production four-cylinder turbo engine in the world".

One thing I really don’t like about the new A45: the so-called AWD is actually a front-wheel drive. 100% of the force is directed in the normal state to the front axle. Only with increased slip, it will be distributed up to 50% on the rear axle.

The BMW M135i System on the contrary, is a real AWD with a tendency to the rear axle.

I think both offers are great, now everything depends on how good the lease offers are and/or how much rebate BMW and Mercedes are giving on these cars. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Funny, how 4 years after its launch, the 458 is still the king of the hill; that says it all really. Oh the Scuderia is round the corner also.

The F12 is just stupenduous. A 740 CV N/A V12 supercar for crying out loud! 

The new F150 (nee F70) should really annihilate anything else out there, as super-Ferraris do when they launch.

I really do not think that Ferrari has anything to worry about. Well, getting the Formula 1 Championship perhaps... that one has been missing since 2008. 

--
FERRARI RULES!!!

REALZEUS:

Funny, how 4 years after its launch, the 458 is still the king of the hill; that says it all really. Oh the Scuderia is round the corner also.

The F12 is just stupenduous. A 740 CV N/A V12 supercar for crying out loud! 

The new F150 (nee F70) should really annihilate anything else out there, as super-Ferraris do when they launch.

I really do not think that Ferrari has anything to worry about. Well, getting the Formula 1 Championship perhaps... that one has been missing since 2008. 

--
FERRARI RULES!!!

Are you sure you are in the right car forum? 

Btw: I don't think the 458 rules that much, I would still prefer the 997 Turbo S for various reasons. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

I am not the one who started the Ferrari debate in here. I just expressed my opinion. 

You are free to chose whatever you want. For most people though, the 458 is the best junior supercar. 
ie:  http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-categories/supercars

--
FERRARI RULES!!!

For most people who can't afford one? 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

RC:

REALZEUS:

Funny, how 4 years after its launch, the 458 is still the king of the hill; that says it all really. Oh the Scuderia is round the corner also.

The F12 is just stupenduous. A 740 CV N/A V12 supercar for crying out loud! 

The new F150 (nee F70) should really annihilate anything else out there, as super-Ferraris do when they launch.

I really do not think that Ferrari has anything to worry about. Well, getting the Formula 1 Championship perhaps... that one has been missing since 2008. 

--
FERRARI RULES!!!

Are you sure you are in the right car forum? 

Btw: I don't think the 458 rules that much, I would still prefer the 997 Turbo S for various reasons. 

Christian,

Have you driven the 997 Turbo S on a race track? I know that you are not living on a race track; most of us aren't and don't decide on a car because of its track performance but here I'm talking about the feel of the car not out right numbers. Lap times are not as important as how the car feels and responses, IMO. Track driving gives a general idea of vehicle dynamics and it is where I drove the Turbo S for the first and the only time.

I personally didn't like turbo S when I drove it on Istanbul Park, ex-F1 circuit. What I didn't like about the car was the car's cornering behaviour on turn 8 where you take 4 consecutive corners at a high speed (around 140 km/h) and the car pushed/understeered on outer front end while front outer suspansion was bouncing and dive. It may be because of the chassie or PASM but The 991 Carrera S cabrio, which I drove on the very same day, was much better in this regard. Also I'm not a huge fan of that vacuum cleaner sound the Turbo S makes. 991 Carrera S with the factory sports exhaust sounds much better.

991 Turbo will be a great car but the 997 4WD chassie is not good enough to compete against 458 evenif it may be faster in real life driving. It just doesn't have 458's superior balance and dynamics. I'm biased but objective here.

--

ONUR

THE BEST CAR EVER 

11 E92 M3 CP - 09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

Well, yes Pride... but are you rich enough to be on this forum? 

REALZEUS:

Well, yes Pride... but are you rich enough to be on this forum? 

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

Nothing to worry about Rossi, it was a joke between myself and Onur. 

pride355:

 

Christian,

Have you driven the 997 Turbo S on a race track? I know that you are not living on a race track; most of us aren't and don't decide on a car because of its track performance but here I'm talking about the feel of the car not out right numbers. Lap times are not as important as how the car feels and responses, IMO. Track driving gives a general idea of vehicle dynamics and it is where I drove the Turbo S for the first and the only time.

Yes, the 997 Turbo S is actually one of the not so many cars over the past three years I've actually driven on a race track (Salzburg Ring). I wouldn't even care about lap times. It is almost impossible for a amateur driver to beat the same amateur driver in a 997 Turbo S, no matter what car with 2WD he drives. The Turbo S is amazingly refined.

I personally didn't like turbo S when I drove it on Istanbul Park, ex-F1 circuit. What I didn't like about the car was the car's cornering behaviour on turn 8 where you take 4 consecutive corners at a high speed (around 140 km/h) and the car pushed/understeered on outer front end while front outer suspansion was bouncing and dive. It may be because of the chassie or PASM but The 991 Carrera S cabrio, which I drove on the very same day, was much better in this regard. Also I'm not a huge fan of that vacuum cleaner sound the Turbo S makes. 991 Carrera S with the factory sports exhaust sounds much better.

The sound of the Turbo S is without a doubt very disappointing. Everything else, I would blame on the chassis setup, tire pressure and driver error.

991 Turbo will be a great car but the 997 4WD chassie is not good enough to compete against 458 evenif it may be faster in real life driving. It just doesn't have 458's superior balance and dynamics. I'm biased but objective here.

Yes, you are biased.

--

ONUR

THE BEST CAR EVER 

11 E92 M3 CP - 09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4