CloseJul 1, 2012 11:13:08 AM
What a stupid law ... I would rather just pay the 11 euro fine ...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18662555
997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red
Jul 1, 2012 11:14:48 AM
Jul 1, 2012 11:22:05 AM
France used to be a wonderful country to tour. We've had some wonderful holidays there in the past. Not any more. The police there now see the motorist, in particular foreign ones driving nice cars as a cash cow. It's now also illegal to have a sat nav which shows the location of fixed and mobile speed camera sites. Get caught and it's a hefty fine and your sat nav is confiscated and destroyed.
They used to have a stupid rule "Prioite a droite" where even tiny minor side streets have priority over main roads. That's been done away with thankfully due to the high number of accidents it caused. Now the Germans are introducing the same silly and dangerous rule as a "traffic calming measure" in towns and cities. I must admit I expect better sense in Germany! 
--
Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Toyota Yaris D4D "Clockwork Rat"
dreamcar:
FNow the Germans are introducing the same silly and dangerous rule as a "traffic calming measure" in towns and cities. I must admit I expect better sense in Germany!
--
Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Toyota Yaris D4D "Clockwork Rat"
They also have been introduced in Switzerland in the 30 km/h zones. They create such problems as no one understands who's got the right of way.
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997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm
dreamcar:
France used to be a wonderful country to tour. We've had some wonderful holidays there in the past. Not any more. The police there now see the motorist, in particular foreign ones driving nice cars as a cash cow. It's now also illegal to have a sat nav which shows the location of fixed and mobile speed camera sites. Get caught and it's a hefty fine and your sat nav is confiscated and destroyed.
They used to have a stupid rule "Prioite a droite" where even tiny minor side streets have priority over main roads. That's been done away with thankfully due to the high number of accidents it caused. Now the Germans are introducing the same silly and dangerous rule as a "traffic calming measure" in towns and cities. I must admit I expect better sense in Germany!
--
Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Toyota Yaris D4D "Clockwork Rat"
1. I never had problems in France...and I don't drive slowly. Just don't drive like a jerk, adapt to the local driving style and you're good. When police stops you, be friendly, apologize and you may get out of a ticket (I did...not only once, same goes to Italy).
2. I'm not aware of any changed to German traffic law. Currently, if there is no traffic sign, the road coming from the right, has priority (right before left rule). Only exception: Round traffic (traffic circle). The traffic in the circle has priority.
3. In France, many accidents happen because of alcohol consumption. To be able to allow a faster and more effective alcohol consumption control, France introduced this new law. Btw: You're not done with the fine if the police stops you. If they suspect excessive alcohol consumption, you pay the fine AND they take you in for a blood or at least breathalyzer test at the precinct. So it is actually better to have that breathalyzer for 1.50 EUR with you, it can save you from a lot of trouble.
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4
Gnil:
dreamcar:
FNow the Germans are introducing the same silly and dangerous rule as a "traffic calming measure" in towns and cities. I must admit I expect better sense in Germany!
--
Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Toyota Yaris D4D "Clockwork Rat"
They also have been introduced in Switzerland in the 30 km/h zones. They create such problems as know one understands who's got the right of way.
I'm not quite sure I understand: Right before left...simple rule if there is no traffic sign saying different. What is not to understand? We have this for decades in Germany, I wasn't even aware that this isn't the law in other countries.
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4
RC:
Gnil:
dreamcar:
FNow the Germans are introducing the same silly and dangerous rule as a "traffic calming measure" in towns and cities. I must admit I expect better sense in Germany!
--
Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Toyota Yaris D4D "Clockwork Rat"
They also have been introduced in Switzerland in the 30 km/h zones. They create such problems as know one understands who's got the right of way.
I'm not quite sure I understand: Right before left...simple rule if there is no traffic sign saying different. What is not to understand?
We also always had the ' priority from right law '. But in the last 20 years or so, main roads where introduced , traffic lights and so this rule was very seldom needed to be applied.
Now with the 30 km/h zone, in towns, you still have the main road and then when ever a road comes from the right ( often tiny little roads that look more like a ' path' coming onto a main one , ) they get right of way. People not driving these streets on regular basis get confused and most of the time do not give the right of way as they think that as they are on the ' main ' road , they have priority.
997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm
No traffic sign...right before left. What is there to get confused by? 
Don't worry though: My business is next to an intersection in a 30 kph zone and almost every day, there is an accident, despite the traffic signs. People don't seem to understand or respect the simplest traffic rules, especially those on bicycles but also car drivers.
Take the turn signal for example: In the city, aprox. a third of the people aren't using the turn signal. On the Autobahn, I would say half of them or even more aren't using the turn signal. People seem to have problems with multi-tasking (steering wheel, clutch, throttle, shifting, looking into the mirror, applying the turn signal and so on).
Yes...hello Nick...even in the US, using the turn signal when you change a lane, is mandatory (I'm actually surprised a lawyer wouldn't know that).
I'm not surprised.
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4
I too find driving in France frustrating. Too slow for my liking and Paris is an asylum, not a city! Other than that, prioritising traffic coming from the right side makes sense only between equal roads; you cannot expect an avenue to come to a halt because someone has to come out of an alley from the right side.
Italy is the best place for driving in Europe IMHO and Switzerland the worst. England is not too shabby either, especially those lovely Welsh B roads!
Driving in Paris is a horror, especially if you have an expensive car.
Driving in France isn't really that much of an issue, french drivers actually don't block the left lane (like Germans do...or those from NL...we call them over here "Nur Links" 
) but driving in Paris and around the Cote d'Azur can be challenging at times, I fully agree.
Not sure if Italy is the best place for driving, Italian drivers are (sorry my friends but I'm there a couple of times per year) provoked fast and drive the same way they talk...fast and uncontrolled . It is almost impossible to drive in Italy relaxed if you are driving a fast car, almost everyone, incl. Vespa drivers 
, wants a piece from you. 
They don't give up though, so I do. Example: I once had a guy following me around a mountain road near Lake Garda in his Alfa Romeo, he was keeping around 20 cm distance from my bumper, something which really annoyed me. I was doing a little bit more than the legal speed limit but this guy wasn't able to pass me, so he apparently thought I would drive faster if he keeps such a crazy narrow distance to me. At some point, I accelerated and left him behind fast in the couple of curves in front of me but a couple of minutes later, after I slowed down, he was behind me again...doing the same stuff. One instant braking and he would have been gone...most other German drivers would have done exactly that (you can't even imagine how many times I got "braked down" because I tried to pass someone on the Autobahn and I kept a much bigger distance). So no, while I enjoy Italian food and Italian hospitality and nature, I don't always enjoy driving there.
Switzerland is horrible too, I agree: Aggressive drivers...constantly in a challenge.
Driving in Germany is no fun either: We can drive fast but we have those drivers, we call them "Schulmeister", who want to teach others how to drive. On the other hand, people get provoked fast too, they brake you down or just don't let you pass them and so on. Not real fun. I like however the bikers over here, they are very fair (thumbs up, etc.) when they race you and they are, usually, careful. I also hate driving at night, especially on weekends, when the younger people are out, mostly people from Turkey, former Yugoslavia or Russia in my region. 90% of them cannot drive and while they are usually not aggressive, they tend to crash their cars fast and you are lucky, if they don't take you with them. So no, I avoid driving at nights and especially weekends over here.
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4
I had a minor argument with my father in law 
(he is french) a few weeks ago. While he tried to tell me that this rule with the breathalyzer WAS in force in the entire Europe, i was thinking and to some extend told him, that it was madness, but here it is for France...I am shocked.
As with the parking in France, I would anytime take the 11 euro fine, it not for anything else than at least to show that I do not agree with the law. I guess this is in line with the french thinking...lol . In Denmark where I am from originally the minimum fine is 70 euro, which to some extend keep people away from violations.
RC - With regards to the "priorite a droite" it is outright dangerous the way it has been handled in Paris. I lived there for 2 years and specially inside Paris/Boulogne you would often drive down a mainroad (in the sense that smaller roads lead into it). Many cars parked at the side and all of a sudden a small hole where cars would come out from with 40-50 km/h...as they had the priority. Believe me a have seen many accidents happen from this, but have always been told by the locals that everyone should know this street - well in my mind it would be nice if not only the locals could drive safely. It has to be said that I have seen priority a droite applied in many countries, but never the way the Parisians applied it. Good if it gone.
RC:
Driving in Paris is a horror, especially if you have an expensive car.
Driving in France isn't really that much of an issue, french drivers actually don't block the left lane (like Germans do...or those from NL...we call them over here "Nur Links"
Not sure if Italy is the best place for driving, Italian drivers are (sorry my friends but I'm there a couple of times per year) provoked fast and drive the same way they talk...fast and uncontrolled
Switzerland is horrible too, I agree: Aggressive drivers...constantly in a challenge.
Driving in Germany is no fun either: We can drive fast but we have those drivers, we call them "Schulmeister", who want to teach others how to drive. On the other hand, people get provoked fast too, they brake you down or just don't let you pass them and so on. Not real fun. I like however the bikers over here, they are very fair (thumbs up, etc.) when they race you and they are, usually, careful. I also hate driving at night, especially on weekends, when the younger people are out, mostly people from Turkey, former Yugoslavia or Russia in my region. 90% of them cannot drive and while they are usually not aggressive, they tend to crash their cars fast and you are lucky, if they don't take you with them. So no, I avoid driving at nights and especially weekends over here.
Well, I like the way Italians drive mate. I too drive a bit quickly so it suits me. I also adore their "the one on the fast lane has absolute priority" attitude on the Autostrada. The left lane rules, unless you can outaccelerate them from the right, but it is not that easy when they are already doing 200+ kph and you are not driving a supercar. 
Other than that, they love speed, no wonder that Italian cars handle well in general.
The Swiss on the other hand are so pre-occupied with speed limits that they can drive you into a killing rampage!
French do the german thing and bog down on the fast lane... Germans were not like that 15 years ago though! 
Jul 1, 2012 4:03:19 PM
RC:
Driving in France isn't really that much of an issue, french drivers actually don't block the left lane (like Germans do...or those from NL...we call them over here "Nur Links"
Haha, Nur Links! Just returned from my roadtrip and took the A7 from Fuessen through Stuttgart to Duesseldorf... so many NL drivers.. it wrecked my average. They were in the mountains too, blocking traffic with trailers towed my 1.6L Nissans.. If you ain't making it to 20km/h, you should probably pull over 
I can now talk about driving in France and Italy due to my recent trip. Have to say driving in France was zero problems, very relaxed and decent driving. Mind you I only took the road from Saarbrucken to Strasbourg, which is probably very rural and empty.
Driving in Italy was funny. My friends warned me, but it was 100% true too. As soon as we were out of the tunnel heading south in CHFland the first Italian drivers were great.. middle of the lane driving, no turn signalling, random braking, crazy speeding. We were driving down in the Como area on sketchy mountain roads too narrow for two regular cars and people were doing 80km/h+ without giving a damn, and then there's the suicidal scooter guys going even faster and passing at insane spots. At some point I said "driving in Italy is like a video game" haha. But in all honesty, if you are careful and passive enough it's no problems, I had no close calls whatsoever. It's just a different mentality in Italy.. the turn signal issues continued all the way to Venice btw.
tso:
Many cars parked at the side and all of a sudden a small hole where cars would come out from with 40-50 km/h...as they had the priority. Believe me a have seen many accidents happen from this, but have always been told by the locals that everyone should know this street - well in my mind it would be nice if not only the locals could drive safely. It has to be said that I have seen priority a droite applied in many countries, but never the way the Parisians applied it. Good if it gone.
1. This happens when people do not respect traffic rules, for example legal parking spaces. I doubt that, even in France, people are allowed to park next to a street exit.
2. Exiting a street at 40-50 kph and entering another one, even knowing that you have the priority, is not only risky but dumb. If these drivers would care more about others but...I know, I know...Paris is not really a fun place to drive, I agree. 
As to the breathalyzer: I think that every police car should have one, it is kind of weird that car owners need to have one in the car but maybe the government wants to save money? 
1.50 EUR isn't much though, so relax.
Remember when the first countries introduced mandatory reflective safety vests in Europe? Even I felt annoyed and didn't really understand what for. Now I do...whenever I see people outside their broken car on the Autobahn, the reflective vests are really life savers.
I know that people don't really like (new) rules but sometimes, they are necessary. Take the bicycle helmet for example, in most countries, it still isn't mandatory. One of our employees didn't wear a bike helmet for years and I always warned her but she had to learn it the hard way (spending a week in intensive care in the hospital). Now she is not only wearing a helmed but also a yellow reflective vest. It really makes a difference.
--
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4
RC:
dreamcar:
France used to be a wonderful country to tour. We've had some wonderful holidays there in the past. Not any more. The police there now see the motorist, in particular foreign ones driving nice cars as a cash cow. It's now also illegal to have a sat nav which shows the location of fixed and mobile speed camera sites. Get caught and it's a hefty fine and your sat nav is confiscated and destroyed.
They used to have a stupid rule "Prioite a droite" where even tiny minor side streets have priority over main roads. That's been done away with thankfully due to the high number of accidents it caused. Now the Germans are introducing the same silly and dangerous rule as a "traffic calming measure" in towns and cities. I must admit I expect better sense in Germany!
--
Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Toyota Yaris D4D "Clockwork Rat"
1. I never had problems in France...and I don't drive slowly. Just don't drive like a jerk, adapt to the local driving style and you're good. When police stops you, be friendly, apologize and you may get out of a ticket (I did...not only once, same goes to Italy).
2. I'm not aware of any changed to German traffic law. Currently, if there is no traffic sign, the road coming from the right, has priority (right before left rule). Only exception: Round traffic (traffic circle). The traffic in the circle has priority.
1. I've never had a problem in France either - driven many thousands of km's there, magnificent open roads, none of the gridlock we have here and the roads are much better maintained, here our roads are becoming a pot hole nightmare. But I have several friends who have been there since we have who came back saying that there are speed cameras everywhere. Not driven as much in Germany, two trips back from Stuttgart and several trips to the Dusseldorf area where my wife's daughter and family live. Driving across next month for a week or so. SWMBO really wants to tour Germany, Black Forest, Rhine, and Bavaria. Must do this one year! She lived there in her previous life for several years and loves the country.
2. It was in one of UK's motoring magazines, can't remember which, that said German law had changed to give priority to minor roads in towns and cities to slow traffic down. Here, the major road has priority which seems to make much more sense than having to watch for traffic coming out of obscure minor roads. Round traffic or roundabouts as we call them have the same rule, traffic on them has priority over joining traffic.
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Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Toyota Yaris D4D "Clockwork Rat"
Jul 2, 2012 7:09:39 PM
Jul 3, 2012 1:42:17 AM
Jul 3, 2012 6:27:21 AM
Leawood911:
BTW No helmet required for MOTOR Cycles in Kansas.
Do you need a law to protect idiots from themselves? Riding a motorbike without a helmet is even more stupid than driving a car without seat belts. Unless of course you wish a half hour appointment with an undertaker....
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Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Toyota Yaris D4D "Clockwork Rat"
Gladstone:
Survival of the fittest will kick in at some point, why not expedite the process?....
Unfortunately these idiots may take some "innocents" with them in the process... 
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4
Jul 3, 2012 2:48:47 PM
RC:
Gladstone:
Survival of the fittest will kick in at some point, why not expedite the process?....
Unfortunately these idiots may take some "innocents" with them in the process...
Unlikey that the rider without a helmet will take anyone with him. It does not take much speed without a helmet. The fact is that by giving the riders the choice they are more aware of the danger and they don't automatically assume that the rules will always protect them.
Think about it and allow people to choose. -While it is fun to fly through the air but we can't put fences around all the trees and high places - people realize they will get hurt so they don't do it. We must trust human nature and encourage thinking! If government is made responsible for keeping us from doing stupid stuff we will become too stupid to know danger when we see it. So let people decide for themselves and be examples in some cases - and yes - I frequently ride without a helmet - no gloves, no leathers - just short rides for fun - keep in mind we have the traffic you only dream of in Europe. I would not ride that way anywhere else - but it is possible here without too much danger - As you would put it RC - to match the situation.
Gladstone - the point is you can open containers in the car. If the driver is under the legal limit who would be able to prove he was the one drinking on of the containers unless the cop saw him? I hate drunk drivers. I hardly ever drink and never drive or operate a boat etc.
Jul 3, 2012 3:06:22 PM
The funny thing about motorcycle riders is that they often quote themselves as an example of how it should be done without realising that they have simply lived to tell the tale so far :)
But the accident statistics don't lie ... it's just a fact that motorcycling is a more dangerous form of transport compared to other forms of transportation ... if you could ask all those fatalities what they would do if they had the chance all over again ... I bet you'd get a different answer! Those people no longer have a voice.
Bottom line: you just can't get round the reality that not having a metal safety cell around you puts you at a major disadvantage in a collision with another road user who does have a metal safety cell for protection ...
That's why the 3 doctors in my family just call them organ donors :)
Sure, everyone should have the freedom to choose how they live their life ... and life is full of dangers both great and small ... I'm not calling for any restrictions ... but it is certainly foolish to ride a motorcycle without a helmet ... it's so easy for the brain to suffer trauma in even a low speed accident ... it only takes one small patch of oil on the road (left behind by another vehicle) and you can be history through no fault of your own ... and even if the crash isn't serious, not wearing leathers is crazy ... it isn't pretty when tarmac and skin meet.
With the number of hazards and idiots on the road today, I prefer 4 wheels with metal, seat belts, crumple zones and airbags all around me plus good brakes and handling.
--
997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red
REALZEUS:The Swiss on the other hand are so pre-occupied with speed limits that they can drive you into a killing rampage!
Haha. In Switzerland every motorist is a traffic police That is why they drive exactly 120.0 km/h in the left lane... even if the right lane is free. Drives me nuts.
997.2 Carrera S in Carrara White. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.
987.1 Boxster S in Arctic Silver. OZ Racing Ultraleggera Wheels, H&R Monotube Coil-Over Suspension, H&R Anti-Roll Bars, Sachs Racing Clutch, Single-Mass Flywheel, IPD Plenum, GT3 Throttle Body, Recaro Pole Position Seats, PSE, Alpine Head Unit and Amplifier, Focal Speakers
Jul 3, 2012 4:58:50 PM
100% agree Easy - riding without gear is taking a chance. About 5% of the time I do it when there is little or no traffic - taking all risks into account. I like that I have the choice. When it is 100 degrees plus it can be a way to stay cooler...
What bugs me is that in the movies they always show riders not only without helmets but without eye protection. 1!00% of the time you will lose an eye by bug or rock! I can't believe they show riders on tv and in the movies like that. Watch for it you will see what I mean. I see first time riders like that all the time, especially on scooters because they think they are safe. Frustrating - there are laws even in Kansas that mandate Eye Protection!
Cheers,
with respects.
bluelines:Haha. In Switzerland every motorist is a traffic police
Not very different in Germany. I'm on the A8 from Munich to Stuttgart (both directions) almost every weekend and despite the three or even four lanes, people love to keep it on the far left side.
What many don't seem to know, especially foreigners: The left lane is for passing only. After passing other cars, it is mandatory to move to the right lane if possible.
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4
Jul 4, 2012 1:57:54 PM
I'm sure everyone knows that they should move to a slower lane after completing an overtaking manoeuvre.
Even I, as someone from the UK who drives on the 'wrong' side of the road knows it! :)
But human nature is crooked and rotten ... these top lane roadblocks do it on purpose to p*ss other people off.
They know it ... we know it ... but they still do it and there is nothing we can do to stop them ... and they know that too.
In one particularly bad case, I got past a driver like that (by overtaking him in a slower lane) and then I moved in front of him and then slowed him right down in his lane to give him a good taste of his own medicine ... sure enough, he then started flashing at me, sounding his horn etc ... I kept him nice and slow for a bit ... and when he tried to get past, I even moved from lane to lane to make sure he stayed behind ... and then, I rolled down my window, gave him a nice single finger salute ... and then disappeared into the horizon courtesy of a Porsche flat 6 engine.
Sadly, one sometimes needs to speak in the a*sehole language to a*seholes like that.
--
997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red
Jul 4, 2012 2:36:13 PM
Not sure about other countries but in Germany, driving on the right lane is mandatory. It is the law. Not that everybody respects it.
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4
RC:
Not sure about other countries but in Germany, driving on the right lane is mandatory. It is the law. Not that everybody respects it.
Sadly not law over here and we no longer have sufficient police patrols on the road in any number to pull over and re-educate bad drivers. Too much reliance on speed cameras.
Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Toyota Yaris D4D "Clockwork Rat"
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