Crown

Ps   1 more contradiction, compare this comment to the one PureBlue got from the EVO article, Top Car quote " the 911 is  again a proper, died-in-the-wool 911"

Na Mezger:

Ps   1 more contradiction, compare this comment to the one PureBlue got from the EVO article, Top Car quote " the 911 is  again a proper, died-in-the-wool 911"

Were they were comparing it to a dead sheep for them not to have written "dyed-in-the-wool"?  

fritz

Na Mezger:

EVO article " In the Audi there is subtlety and soul to the driving experience"            " It seems strange the R8 should so clearly beat the 991 for subjective feel, but there's no question it does"

I've driven the 991S (PDK version) and the R8 (Manual V10 version) and I liked the R8 far more than the 991 (and much more than I ever expected to).

--

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs).  Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550 Maranello

Grant:

Na Mezger:

EVO article " In the Audi there is subtlety and soul to the driving experience"            " It seems strange the R8 should so clearly beat the 991 for subjective feel, but there's no question it does"

I've driven the 991S (PDK version) and the R8 (Manual V10 version) and I liked the R8 far more than the 991 (and much more than I ever expected to).

--

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs).  Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550 Maranello

Ouch!    Grant, knowing your automotive background I'm far more concerned hearing that coming from you than from some journalist. 

Now it'll be up to the GT3 to change that assessment. 

fritz

Na Mezger:

Ps   1 more contradiction, compare this comment to the one PureBlue got from the EVO article, Top Car quote " the 911 is  again a proper, died-in-the-wool 911"

As I noted in my post, this is just one of many opinions - all of which should be taken with a pinch of salt.  In the end, it all comes down to personal preference.  My advice would be to drive a properly-specced 997 and 991 Carrera S back to back and form your own conclusions.  Try to include as many variations as you can, i.e. PDK vs. manual, SPASM vs. PASM, etc - and try not to be swayed by other people's opinions, no matter how "authoritative" they might appear to be.

fritz:

Na Mezger:

Ps   1 more contradiction, compare this comment to the one PureBlue got from the EVO article, Top Car quote " the 911 is  again a proper, died-in-the-wool 911"

Were they were comparing it to a dead sheep for them not to have written "dyed-in-the-wool"?  

Fritz  the quote was verbatim !!   Lol that is actually pretty funny i was so concerned about the Porsche losing i that i gave it no thought !!

Mezger

PureBlue:

Na Mezger:

Ps   1 more contradiction, compare this comment to the one PureBlue got from the EVO article, Top Car quote " the 911 is  again a proper, died-in-the-wool 911"

As I noted in my post, this is just one of many opinions - all of which should be taken with a pinch of salt.  In the end, it all comes down to personal preference.  My advice would be to drive a properly-specced 997 and 991 Carrera S back to back and form your own conclusions.  Try to include as many variations as you can, i.e. PDK vs. manual, SPASM vs. PASM, etc - and try not to be swayed by other people's opinions, no matter how "authoritative" they might appear to be.

Thanks PureBlue, you always offer a really objective opinion, i would definitely go GTS if i choose 997, it ticks all the right boxes and offered the best value here for the 997 IMO, have you driven the 991 yet by the way, would like to hear  your opinion considering you are driving the car i want !!!! 

fritz:

Grant:

Na Mezger:

EVO article " In the Audi there is subtlety and soul to the driving experience"            " It seems strange the R8 should so clearly beat the 991 for subjective feel, but there's no question it does"

I've driven the 991S (PDK version) and the R8 (Manual V10 version) and I liked the R8 far more than the 991 (and much more than I ever expected to).

--

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs).  Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550 Maranello

Ouch!    Grant, knowing your automotive background I'm far more concerned hearing that coming from you than from some journalist. 

Now it'll be up to the GT3 to change that assessment. 

Sounds to me like maybe the GT cars for the 991 are going to be worth waiting for !!! 

Gets a little expensive for us here in SA, a low mileage 997 GTS is $ 160 000-00 you get the picture !!

Na Mezger:

PureBlue:

Na Mezger:

Ps   1 more contradiction, compare this comment to the one PureBlue got from the EVO article, Top Car quote " the 911 is  again a proper, died-in-the-wool 911"

As I noted in my post, this is just one of many opinions - all of which should be taken with a pinch of salt.  In the end, it all comes down to personal preference.  My advice would be to drive a properly-specced 997 and 991 Carrera S back to back and form your own conclusions.  Try to include as many variations as you can, i.e. PDK vs. manual, SPASM vs. PASM, etc - and try not to be swayed by other people's opinions, no matter how "authoritative" they might appear to be.

Thanks PureBlue, you always offer a really objective opinion, i would definitely go GTS if i choose 997, it ticks all the right boxes and offered the best value here for the 997 IMO, have you driven the 991 yet by the way, would like to hear  your opinion considering you are driving the car i want !!!! 

I had a very brief (20-minute) test drive of a 991 Carrera S - with PDK - in December (basically just up and down a short stretch of the N7, so it was difficult to form any definitive conclusions).  You'll find my feedback in the "Porsche 991 Carrera S - Review (Short)" thread - posted on 22 December 2011.  I'm waiting for the RHD demos to arrive in CT for a proper test drive - should be very soon.

Na Mezger:

PureBlue:

Na Mezger:

Ps   1 more contradiction, compare this comment to the one PureBlue got from the EVO article, Top Car quote " the 911 is  again a proper, died-in-the-wool 911"

As I noted in my post, this is just one of many opinions - all of which should be taken with a pinch of salt.  In the end, it all comes down to personal preference.  My advice would be to drive a properly-specced 997 and 991 Carrera S back to back and form your own conclusions.  Try to include as many variations as you can, i.e. PDK vs. manual, SPASM vs. PASM, etc - and try not to be swayed by other people's opinions, no matter how "authoritative" they might appear to be.

Thanks PureBlue, you always offer a really objective opinion, i would definitely go GTS if i choose 997, it ticks all the right boxes and offered the best value here for the 997 IMO, have you driven the 991 yet by the way, would like to hear  your opinion considering you are driving the car i want !!!!

hi mezger - the problem you'll have in SA is that the depreciation doesn't reflect in the used car retail price - Pureblue and I got it right perhaps by buying at the tail end of the 997 era by getting new GTS's.  I think you'd be far better off getting a 991CS now, and some would say you'll have done better to have waited...

i can't see much point in the SA market in buying used unless its at least 4 years old - I'm amazed at what they're asking for some 1 or 2 year olds... And then you may as well get a GT3...

so 4 year old GT3 and wait for a 991 GT3 (at which point you might prefer to hang on to your retro 997) or go 991 now - same money upfront.  And as you don't have to change a car you love for at least 6,7 or 8 years (-it's a 911 so maybe much longer) depreciation is largely irrelevant - especially if you're paying cash.  It's not an investment...

bonus - if you take the GT3 option, it will be out of maintenance plan in only 12 months and you can take Pureblue and me to Killarney!

--

Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)

Budster:

Na Mezger:

PureBlue:

Na Mezger:

Ps   1 more contradiction, compare this comment to the one PureBlue got from the EVO article, Top Car quote " the 911 is  again a proper, died-in-the-wool 911"

As I noted in my post, this is just one of many opinions - all of which should be taken with a pinch of salt.  In the end, it all comes down to personal preference.  My advice would be to drive a properly-specced 997 and 991 Carrera S back to back and form your own conclusions.  Try to include as many variations as you can, i.e. PDK vs. manual, SPASM vs. PASM, etc - and try not to be swayed by other people's opinions, no matter how "authoritative" they might appear to be.

Thanks PureBlue, you always offer a really objective opinion, i would definitely go GTS if i choose 997, it ticks all the right boxes and offered the best value here for the 997 IMO, have you driven the 991 yet by the way, would like to hear  your opinion considering you are driving the car i want !!!!

hi mezger - the problem you'll have in SA is that the depreciation doesn't reflect in the used car retail price - Pureblue and I got it right perhaps by buying at the tail end of the 997 era by getting new GTS's.  I think you'd be far better off getting a 991CS now, and some would say you'll have done better to have waited...

i can't see much point in the SA market in buying used unless its at least 4 years old - I'm amazed at what they're asking for some 1 or 2 year olds... And then you may as well get a GT3...

so 4 year old GT3 and wait for a 991 GT3 (at which point you might prefer to hang on to your retro 997) or go 991 now - same money upfront.  And as you don't have to change a car you love for at least 6,7 or 8 years (-it's a 911 so maybe much longer) depreciation is largely irrelevant - especially if you're paying cash.  It's not an investment...

bonus - if you take the GT3 option, it will be out of maintenance plan in only 12 months and you can take Pureblue and me to Killarney!

--

Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)

Hey Budster thanks for your advice, what u are saying makes sense the approved used prices are crazy.

As for a spin around Killarney, I live in Jhb so that will be tough but it is still very funny. I do envy your roads that u have to drive on down there, we have to go all the way to Nelspruit to get anything decent !!!!

PureBlue:

Na Mezger:

PureBlue:

Na Mezger:

Ps   1 more contradiction, compare this comment to the one PureBlue got from the EVO article, Top Car quote " the 911 is  again a proper, died-in-the-wool 911"

As I noted in my post, this is just one of many opinions - all of which should be taken with a pinch of salt.  In the end, it all comes down to personal preference.  My advice would be to drive a properly-specced 997 and 991 Carrera S back to back and form your own conclusions.  Try to include as many variations as you can, i.e. PDK vs. manual, SPASM vs. PASM, etc - and try not to be swayed by other people's opinions, no matter how "authoritative" they might appear to be.

Thanks PureBlue, you always offer a really objective opinion, i would definitely go GTS if i choose 997, it ticks all the right boxes and offered the best value here for the 997 IMO, have you driven the 991 yet by the way, would like to hear  your opinion considering you are driving the car i want !!!! 

I had a very brief (20-minute) test drive of a 991 Carrera S - with PDK - in December (basically just up and down a short stretch of the N7, so it was difficult to form any definitive conclusions).  You'll find my feedback in the "Porsche 991 Carrera S - Review (Short)" thread - posted on 22 December 2011.  I'm waiting for the RHD demos to arrive in CT for a proper test drive - should be very soon.

Thanks PureBlue, great write up considering your limited time in the car. From what I can tell, the testers that  really love the new car reckon that you need to spend some time behind the wheel and take it to the limit to truly appreciate what Porsche has done with the 991.

It saw the 991S for the first time in person at the local dealer.

the car had the standard interior, a slight seat upgrade, and 'PARK Asssist' (a joke option) + PDK.  112K DOLLARS.

The interior looked CHEAP and plastic.  All switches looked cheap and smaller, harder to use - starting with the light switch.  Horrible.  It also felt cramped.  Not at all impressed.  Even the air vents used cheap material and were smaller.

Not going to bother driving it for now.

For the 60K hit (if I get a fabuous trade in) I would rather just add a new Boxster S to my garage.

Leawood911:

It saw the 991S for the first time in person at the local dealer.

the car had the standard interior, a slight seat upgrade, and 'PARK Asssist' (a joke option) + PDK.  112K DOLLARS.

The interior looked CHEAP and plastic.  All switches looked cheap and smaller, harder to use - starting with the light switch.  Horrible.  It also felt cramped.  Not at all impressed.  Even the air vents used cheap material and were smaller.

Not going to bother driving it for now.

For the 60K hit (if I get a fabuous trade in) I would rather just add a new Boxster S to my garage.

Yeah, but I bet in 2 or 3 years, you get a great deal on a used, relatively high mileage 991S.  And then you'll be saying how great a car it is.

--

2005 997S Blk/Blk

Regarding the EVO article, it does seem to have come down to subjective factors (although I have not seen the full article).  But EVO did print what they thought, and you have to give them some credit for that.  I do think that the "911 Beaten" cover story title was a bit provocative, chosen most likely to attract buyers.  But my guess is the Porsche will certainly be irritated by the results and the approach, and that EVO will be persona non grata at least in the short term.

Regarding other posts about buying a 997 GTS versus a new 991, there are surely some GTS bargains out there.  My dealer has no fewer than four on the showroom floor, and the pricing is attractive.  I would not choose the GTS over the 991, but certainly understand it is a great car and bargain now. 

Wonder bar:

Regarding other posts about buying a 997 GTS versus a new 991, there are surely some GTS bargains out there.  My dealer has no fewer than four on the showroom floor, and the pricing is attractive.  I would not choose the GTS over the 991, but certainly understand it is a great car and bargain now. 

Not in SA though - where prices are realistic the decision, almost by definition, should be a difficult one.

Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)

SoCal Alan:

Leawood911:

It saw the 991S for the first time in person at the local dealer.

the car had the standard interior, a slight seat upgrade, and 'PARK Asssist' (a joke option) + PDK.  112K DOLLARS.

The interior looked CHEAP and plastic.  All switches looked cheap and smaller, harder to use - starting with the light switch.  Horrible.  It also felt cramped.  Not at all impressed.  Even the air vents used cheap material and were smaller.

Not going to bother driving it for now.

For the 60K hit (if I get a fabuous trade in) I would rather just add a new Boxster S to my garage.

Yeah, but I bet in 2 or 3 years, you get a great deal on a used, relatively high mileage 991S.  And then you'll be saying how great a car it is.

 

--

2005 997S Blk/Blk

Exactly. People see what they want to see. Leawood911 is the only person I've ever heard of who thinks the interior of the 991 is cheap and plasticky. Everyone else thinks the Panamera influence has made for a much more luxurious interior overall. As if the volcano grey PCM in a 997 isn't plasticky? Give me a break.

997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red

easy_rider911:
Exactly. People see what they want to see. Leawood911 is the only person I've ever heard of who thinks the interior of the 991 is cheap and plasticky. Everyone else thinks the Panamera influence has made for a much more luxurious interior overall. As if the volcano grey PCM in a 997 isn't plasticky? Give me a break.

Not the only one. Of course the volcano grey in the 997.1 was horrible, it couldn't get any worse than that. But 997.2 changed all that. Quality feel of the switches in the 997.2 is better than the numerous, little, plasticky buttons in Panamera-style in the 991. Also agree with Leawood concerning the light switch. Small and cheap looking. Or has anybody noticed the new interior lights? Look so cheap, not appropriate for such a car.

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

You mean standard interior lights or optional interior lights package?

I also think that Panamera influence of 991 is cheap and plasticky...

Me too - the switchgear in my Cayenne is great for a luxury SUV that will be tired after 5, maybe 7 years, but no way will it be as durable as the 997.  Simply too much faux chrome plastic...  911s need to be built for 30 years and I have a nagging doubt that the interior isn't up to it...

--

Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)

I am comparing my full leather 997.1 interior with the basic 991 interior.  There is no way that in a couple of years I will not feel the same way.  I will always prefer the 997 leather to the pastic crap I saw in the 991.

The rest of the parts - like the switches are, I am sorry, cheap looking plastic and small to the touch.  Even the steering wheel (mutli function option) was cheap plactic and so was the tiny cheap looking PDK shifter.  I was expecting something like a really nice Audi style interior but only saw plastic junk.  The Air vents in my 997 are nice aluminum looking and large enough to be functional.  The 991 airvents are some type of back plastic and much smaller.  I am sorry, I am just being honest.  I have not seen what the full leather interior looks like but all the same switches are still used.  Not certain I could even use the tiny airconditioning controls on the 991.  The power seat I sat in was also very narrow and not supportive.  I guess I am spoiled by my sport adaptive seats.

To get that basic 991s for 112K I would be missing the heated adaptive seats, the leather interior, the PCCB brakes, Sport Chrono etc. - performance for the 7 speed would be almost identical to my 6 speed except for maybe fuel mileage.

I know it is the 'new' 911 but I just can't get past how cheap the car looks to be put together AND how much they think it is worth.  I doubt that when it becomes a used car it will have held up as well as my 997 has over almost 8 years.  The interior of my 997 still looks and smells like new leather, the PCCB breakes and pads are as new, the paint has help up perfectly and engine runs like a bat out of hell - never burning any oil. 

If I were to get any type of 911 it would be a 997 GT3!  It is looking better and better!!!  If I could find one with PCCB, about three years old I would still have enough left over for a new Boxster (with the identical cheap switches for half the price of a 991 Cab).

KresoF1:

You mean standard interior lights or optional interior lights package?

Kreso, since it was a Carrera, I guess it could have been the standard interior lights, though I'm not sure if there's a difference in the lights of the headliner at all. Pictures of both would be appreciated.

The fact that you can, or better have to order an optional interior lights package in a car like a 911, is not to my liking

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

I too was unimpressed by the quality of the switchgear. The 997.1 switches, small as they were, felt solid to the touch and had a clean click. The 991 switches, because of the "chrome" trim on them, look cheap to me. And when actuating them, they don't feel as satisfyingly solid.

This seems to be a trend. I also looked at the new BMW 3 series on the same day I looked at the 991, and compared to the much maligned E90 interior, the materials of the F30 do not feel as solid or sturdy. I don't know if everybody is trying to reduce weight by cutting a few grams of plastic, or if this is a reflection of the fact that the gestation period of these cars included the recent recession years.

Leawood911:

It saw the 991S for the first time in person at the local dealer.

the car had the standard interior, a slight seat upgrade, and 'PARK Asssist' (a joke option) + PDK.  112K DOLLARS.

The interior looked CHEAP and plastic.  All switches looked cheap and smaller, harder to use - starting with the light switch.  Horrible.  It also felt cramped.  Not at all impressed.  Even the air vents used cheap material and were smaller.

Not going to bother driving it for now.

For the 60K hit (if I get a fabuous trade in) I would rather just add a new Boxster S to my garage.

I saw it a couple of weeks ago and  had the same impression...

KMM:
...
I don't know if everybody is trying to reduce weight by cutting a few grams of plastic, or if this is a reflection of the fact that the gestation period of these cars included the recent recession years.
 

It's not about reducing weight, but about reducing costs.

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

rhino:

Leawood911:

It saw the 991S for the first time in person at the local dealer.

the car had the standard interior, a slight seat upgrade, and 'PARK Asssist' (a joke option) + PDK.  112K DOLLARS.

The interior looked CHEAP and plastic.  All switches looked cheap and smaller, harder to use - starting with the light switch.  Horrible.  It also felt cramped.  Not at all impressed.  Even the air vents used cheap material and were smaller.

Not going to bother driving it for now.

For the 60K hit (if I get a fabuous trade in) I would rather just add a new Boxster S to my garage.

I saw it a couple of weeks ago and  had the same impression...

I saw the 991 today. Two cars both in white with black interior, so I had no comparison.

I could not find anything wrong with it to be honest, but OTOH I failed to be impressed. The shape will be liked by 911 fans but personally I prefer the more compact dimensions and the more plain/minimalist design of my 997.2. The extra length of the 991 doesn't show but it looks too wide especially at the front. Again, some people like the wide body look on Porsche but I like the narrow body look more.

The interior was nice in a saloon car way, but for me it was unnecessarily elaborate for a sports car. I didn't find it cheap looking though. It was in black and I don't know what impression other colours give.

The "engine bay" (or lack of it) was a visual disappointment of course and a PITA for the technicians, I was told.

The chief technician told me that it drives very fast in curves and it's more stable than the 997 but the steering feel needs some getting used to. But the steering system itself is very good in what it does.

On balance it is a logical evolution of the 911 but the 997.2 will be the new 993 IMO.

--

"Form follows function"

I completely agree with the 'cramped' comment.

Part of the beauty of the 911 for me was always the simplicity, very few controls, very few switches and a lot of drivers space inside for what is a small cabin. I felt almost claustrophobic in the 991, it just feels like there's no room in there with the massive centre console. It might work in the Cayenne/Panamera where the overall cabin is much bigger, but it's a world away from the simple open cabin of the earlier models, especially the pre-centre console 964/993/996 (with console delete).

And something else! The new sunroof system doesn't look as bad in reality as in pictures. The opening is slightly larger than previously, but I would have spend the 1700 Euro on something else.

The car had the PDCC and those stabilizer bars were huge in diameter. Almost as thick as a Cayenne's

"Form follows function"

I have the same worry about the cramped comment. I get to see the 991 for the first time tomorrow at the Australian launch. Can't wait to make my own impression.