CloseAgree with sfo that Panny has aged well. I do think, however, that the sport package adds needed crispness and angles to the slightly bulbous design, even though the package is expensive and prone to curb damage, etc. I also think the Panny-like most Porsches--looks far better in real life than in pics.
The FL should improve matters even more...
Look at the 928 . When it came out most people where complaining about the shape ( looks like an egg ) . The car was different from all others. The same with the Panamera . Shapes that do not please the eye immediatly as they are ' different' usually stay much longer ' fresh' .
I always likes the Panamera , except for some details ( front mainly ) . This car is '' special'' . A very nice feature these days where everything tends to look the same.
997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm
RC:
Speaking of Turbo and GTS (may not be directly related but I wanted to warn you guys): As you know, I've chosen the Cayenne GTS over a Cayenne Turbo. Dealer offer was almost the same since the Cayenne Turbo was a showroom car for a couple of months and the options were pretty basic (no PDCC, no PTV, almost nothing special). I chose the GTS over the Turbo because of the looks, the handling/steering and the sound of course. For me, this has been a very good choice so far because I also own a Panamera Turbo S and when I need something fast for the Autobahn, well...
Yesterday however, my Cayenne GTS choice sucked: I was on my way to our annual ski vacation on the Autobahn and I really had a hard time to overtake those powerful Turbo Diesel family cars over here and had at one point problems keeping up with the crowd. This was no fun. Of course my Cayenne GTS was fully loaded (family, lots of luggage) but still...it sucked. It was the first time I did a longer Autobahn trip with the fully loaded car and this is the point I started to wish I would have gone for the Turbo. Of course I barely use my GTS on the Autobahn (this is what the Panamera is for) and as soon as I drive the car again through the city and on country roads, everything will be forgotten but if you are really into powerful cars and you can afford it, always go for the most powerful version you can buy. Otherwise you will regret it sooner or later.
So if the Panamera is going to be your daily driver for everything, including longer trips, please choose the Turbo. The GTS provides a sportier feel and sound but at some point, when you get "humiliated"
by another family car or even SUV, you wish you had chosen the more powerful car.
Example: A Panamera GTS owner told me once how weird he felt when his buddy passed him in his Cayenne Turbo S (957) on the Autobahn. The difference was minimal but c'mon...his friend was driving that fat SUV and he was driving the sportiest Panamera version. You get the point...
old guys knows best 
hugo:
get the most powerful version so no regrets later-that's experience right there
Isn't that the case for almost anything? Get the best and never regret it? Or at least get the maximum your money can buy?
The secret of life is to admire without desiring.
Rossi:
hugo:
get the most powerful version so no regrets later-that's experience right there
Isn't that the case for almost anything? Get the best and never regret it? Or at least get the maximum your money can buy?
The problem here is that Porsche decided to give the GTS models a sportier feel/handling and sound. In my opinion, this was a good marketing trick but a flawed one too. Somebody who pays 200 grand for a Panamera Turbo S or almost 180 grand for a Cayenne Turbo S, wants to have the very same sporty drive feel, handling and sound but he cannot get it. C'mon, does this sound OK to you, especially from a marketing point of view? Especially since neither the Panamera or the Cayenne are actually comparable to the 911 (and the GT3 models for example).
Porsche should at least offer a "GTS" package for the Turbo and Turbo S. It is a shame that somebody who paid 60k EUR less than me for his Panamera GTS, actually enjoys his car more than I do (feel, handling and sound). This is stupid.
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4
keithos27:
It's my understanding that actually the people who are willing to pay more for their cars (i.e. the Turbo/Turbo S customers) are the ones that actually want more luxury... But I definitely understand your point RC.
True but I couldn't care less about luxury, I want the maximum possible performance and in my book, this includes a sportier chassis and exhaust sound too.
Actually, I am hoping for a Panamera Coupe of some sort but right now, the best fun package in my book is actually the Cayenne GTS. Yes, it lacks power and it is a SUV but it is fun to drive, at the same time providing me with perfect winter capabilities and enough room for the family and their excess luggage. 
Porsche, give me a Cayenne Turbo S with GTS chassis/steering/sound and 200 kg less weight and I will probably never buy any other Porsche model again (well...maybe a 911 
).
Maybe I'm getting old...
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4
RC:
Rossi:
hugo:
get the most powerful version so no regrets later-that's experience right there
Isn't that the case for almost anything? Get the best and never regret it? Or at least get the maximum your money can buy?The problem here is that Porsche decided to give the GTS models a sportier feel/handling and sound. In my opinion, this was a good marketing trick but a flawed one too. Somebody who pays 200 grand for a Panamera Turbo S or almost 180 grand for a Cayenne Turbo S, wants to have the very same sporty drive feel, handling and sound but he cannot get it. C'mon, does this sound OK to you, especially from a marketing point of view? Especially since neither the Panamera or the Cayenne are actually comparable to the 911 (and the GT3 models for example).
Porsche should at least offer a "GTS" package for the Turbo and Turbo S. It is a shame that somebody who paid 60k EUR less than me for his Panamera GTS, actually enjoys his car more than I do (feel, handling and sound). This is stupid.
I hear you, RC. 
Sometimes I don't really understand the marketing departments, even more as with today's level of technology and electronics it would be easily possible...
The secret of life is to admire without desiring.
I am not sure many customers of a PanaTurbo/ Turbo S are looking for extra sportiveness . Most of them do find the Panamera as it is already pretty sporty and they actually want more comfort . Look also at what the 911 is becoming. Most people want to feel comfortable and not feel every stone on the road , or have a very direct steering , or sporty suspension.
We are probably a very small percentage , so it is not worth it and Porsche probably does not want to send a message that is too ' rough' for their sedans/ SUV so not to scare the customers off. Making a seperate model ( GTS) prevents of all that . What could be done is to offer a ' turbo kit' on the GTS ...
997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm
Feb 13, 2013 8:39:04 AM
Gnil:
I am not sure many customers of a PanaTurbo/ Turbo S are looking for extra sportiveness . Most of them do find the Panamera as it is already pretty sporty and they actually want more comfort . Look also at what the 911 is becoming. Most people want to feel comfortable and not feel every stone on the road , or have a very direct steering , or sporty suspension.
We are probably a very small percentage , so it is not worth it and Porsche probably does not want to send a message that is too ' rough' for their sedans/ SUV so not to scare the customers off. Making a seperate model ( GTS) prevents of all that . What could be done is to offer a ' turbo kit' on the GTS ...
...Or just offer a brand new model: a Panamera/Cayenne Turbo GTS.
rulesdontapply
--
2008 Porsche Boxster S PDE2
2012 Porsche Cayenne S
Gnil:
What could be done is to offer a ' turbo kit' on the GTS ...
Porsche isn't into turbo kits, only chance would have been a GTS package of some sort for the turbo models.
I agree, some of the top model buyers may not be into sportier setups or sportier drive feel but does this really apply to all of them? I met a couple of Panamera Turbo and Cayenne Turbo drivers and all of them were somehow complaining that there isn't some sort of "sport package" available. I would gladly pay the price tag of the sport design package for a chassis/steering/exhaust sport package. I also don't understand why the turbo sport exhaust has such a crappy sound compared to the GTS sport exhaust. Yes, I know...turbo chargers but how does AMG do it for example? There are other examples too.
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4
Feb 13, 2013 11:39:55 AM
rulesdontapply:
...Or just offer a brand new model: a Panamera/Cayenne Turbo GTS.
rulesdontapply
--
2008 Porsche Boxster S PDE2
2012 Porsche Cayenne S
Interesting suggestion but I'm afraid this wouldn't be profitable for Porsche. I don't know how many Turbo S Panamera and Cayenne models Porsche sold so far but that can't be many. So adding another layer of model on top of the Turbo S might not be a good idea, I don't know. The fragmentation would just be too big.
I still think that a GTS package or "sports package" would be the best approach.
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4
Feb 22, 2013 1:52:52 PM
Wonderbar:
April at Shanghai Show is my guess..
they should delay it a bit as a lot of the last build old versions hit the lot in April. a delay on that with the scare of no more V8's might move the metal a little faster for the dealors.
2012 991 C2S -PDK / 2010 997.2 turbo cab manual, sold / 2008 Cayenne GTS Manual /2008 RS 60 sold /04 C4S sold - 08 Cayenne Turbo PDCC sold
Feb 23, 2013 8:00:21 PM
GTS & Turbo will have V8s... It's the S that is losing it. I foresee that the turbo V6 will be a fantastic engine though. It is really stupid to get a panamera now right before the FL.
2012 Cayenne TT, 2014 Panamera TT facelift on order :)
Feb 23, 2013 11:20:12 PM
i was told TTv6 on the GTS - makes more sense otherwise it is a stranded engine and that means more $ costs and less profit.
2012 991 C2S -PDK / 2010 997.2 turbo cab manual, sold / 2008 Cayenne GTS Manual /2008 RS 60 sold /04 C4S sold - 08 Cayenne Turbo PDCC sold
Feb 23, 2013 11:50:18 PM
I was told V8 on the GTS :)
We'll have to wait and see... but if the newgen pana comes out in the beginning of 2015 it probably makes a whole lot of sense not to get excited about the FL and just wait for the facegen.
2012 Cayenne TT, 2014 Panamera TT facelift on order :)
Feb 24, 2013 10:59:32 AM
Good question, Artur. I don't know really, but here are some guesses.
1. FL will probably last three years in reality, as 2nd generation won't be delivered until late 2015 or early 2016.
2. FL will have enough differences to attract new customers, generating at least some sales income compared to dwindling sales of first generation. My guess is that Porsche knows pretty specifically what this new income will be.
3. FL allows Porsche to continue to recoup its investment in the basic components of the first generation car, while at the same time evaluating new components that will ultimately make it into the new generation.
4. Porsche doesn't offer special sales and discounts on its models, so FL is a way to generate new interest and income on basically the same product.
5. Facelift is really a misleading term, which gives the impression that the car is simply a slight design makeover. Engine, suspension, lights, bodywork and interior and bodywork improvements are expensive and more substantial than we suppose casually.
6. Customers in the long run probably appreciate "gradual but high quality Improvements" over a model's history, as opposed to waiting four or five years for a "new" car.
Just some thoughts, and I welcome other comments from Rennteamers...
Good analysis
I think Porsche design philosophy is more evolutionary than revolutionary. We have seen it in the sports cars. What I find very interesting with Porsche is the lag time from when a car is introduced to the time it is actually available at the dealers. Cayman is a good example. Launched at LA Auto Show in November 2012 and not available at US dealers until the following April 2013. I assume Panamera FL will be launched in April but not available in US Dealers to the fall. Just my perspective....
2006 997 C2S Cab, Triple Black, 2006 Cayenne Titanium Iceland Silver Metalic New York
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