Crown

I don't know who's idea this video was but this really is pathetic.

Tell me what is wrong...

Surprisingly, the Panamera actually pulls off from the M5 over the first couple of meters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=3zsApdoO-IU

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Why in the world would they not use a Panamera Turbo instead of the "S"???  Price?

Was also surprised how the M5 easily beat the E63 w/power kit. Too bad Chris Harris wasn't involved.

Have the digital version of this EVO issue. Chris's report of 991 was good.

Happy Holidays to all!

Lots of drama!    .....   Buttons being pushed, shifters clicking, exhaust burbling,and drivers who look like they dont see indoor plumbing much. 

A ridiculously desperate video.

Since these cars offer "lane avoidance" systems maybe the drivers should have driven blindfolded. They didnt do much else anyways.

RC:

I don't know who's idea this video was but this really is pathetic.

Tell me what is wrong...

Surprisingly, the Panamera actually pulls off from the M5 over the first couple of meters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=3zsApdoO-IU

What is so difficult to understand about that video? It's a simple dragrace between similarly priced RWD supersaloons?

Would you have liked the video if they 'd used a superior Panamera that mullered the opposition?

When doing a drag race, not a review based on price tag, you use the top of the line model. In this case, even the Panamera Turbo S. It doesn't make sense to compare cars executing a drag race and picking them based on their price tag, this is just plain stupid. Despite the fact that the Panamera Turbo base price wouldn't have been really that far away from the Mercedes E63 AMG PP price tag.

It is also interesting that the video never shows the Panamera S in the beginning...when it actually pulls off from the M5 from 0-50 kph or so. I don't know who or why they did this movie but it is a very nice proof on how the media can brainwash people.

Why I say this? The link has been sent to me by a friend who knows that I'm planning to get the Panamera Turbo S. He saw this video on YouTube and he actually thought that this is the Panamera Turbo S, given the other high performance competitors. When I pointed out that this is "just" the Panamera S with 400 hp, he was very surprised and also apologized (not that I really cared, it is just a stupid video) because he kind of made fun of the Panamera performance. This is also the reason why I'm kind of p.ss.d, this video is really pathetic because many people may not even know the difference between the specific models and the Panamera clearly looses this one.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

I agree with RC on this ... basing the line up on similar pricing alone is only useful if one is comparing the performance one can get from models available from these manufacturers within a particular budget.

Whereas picking the fastest model (irrespective of price) provides a comparison of how each manufacturer really stacks up against the others.

The Panamera S never stood a chance. Perhaps it's an obvious way of putting it but the race is between machinery and not piles of money :)

IMvHO this is yet another EVO video that leaves a lot to be desired.

997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red

imo, it's just a simple clip to satisfy the subscribers to EVO's YouTube channel. The review itself is about so much more than simple acceleration times. They repeat time and again that performance-wise the Turbo (S) is the real competitor, but that that car is in another league price-wise.

Furthermore, it is commonly accepted that the RWD Panamera S provides the more enjoyable driving experience, so from a 'Thrill of driving' -EVO's tagline- perspective, choosing that version above the more powerful Turbo (S) makes perfect sense, again imo.

Porker:

imo, it's just a simple clip to satisfy the subscribers to EVO's YouTube channel. The review itself is about so much more than simple acceleration times. They repeat time and again that performance-wise the Turbo (S) is the real competitor, but that that car is in another league price-wise.

Furthermore, it is commonly accepted that the RWD Panamera S provides the more enjoyable driving experience, so from a 'Thrill of driving' -EVO's tagline- perspective, choosing that version above the more powerful Turbo (S) makes perfect sense, again imo.

Well, EVO always use GT3/RS to compare with Ferrari or Lambo that cost twice or more.  To them, price was never a criteria.

Picking the Panamera S in this comparison is a wrong choice, and offers misleading information to the uninformed readers.  Maybe that is their key message.

Tim

2010 997.2 GT3RS;  2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe #13;  2011 Panamera 4

Targa Tim:

 

Picking the Panamera S in this comparison is a wrong choice, and offers misleading information to the uninformed readers.  Maybe that is their key message.

Very well said ! 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Targa Tim:

Porker:

imo, it's just a simple clip to satisfy the subscribers to EVO's YouTube channel. The review itself is about so much more than simple acceleration times. They repeat time and again that performance-wise the Turbo (S) is the real competitor, but that that car is in another league price-wise.

Furthermore, it is commonly accepted that the RWD Panamera S provides the more enjoyable driving experience, so from a 'Thrill of driving' -EVO's tagline- perspective, choosing that version above the more powerful Turbo (S) makes perfect sense, again imo.

Well, EVO always use GT3/RS to compare with Ferrari or Lambo that cost twice or more.  To them, price was never a criteria.

Picking the Panamera S in this comparison is a wrong choice, and offers misleading information to the uninformed readers.  Maybe that is their key message.

All the information you could possibly need is there in the article, I struggle to understand how the reader could possibly be uninformed?

Like I said before, a friend sent me the link to the video and he was pretty sure that the Panamera tested is the Turbo S, not the S, due to the competition. This is how easy people get misled. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

RC:

Like I said before, a friend sent me the link to the video and he was pretty sure that the Panamera tested is the Turbo S, not the S, due to the competition. This is how easy people get misled. 

EVO is a magazine, in order to be informed about their tests and the reasoning behind it, one should read  it, that's all I'm trying to say.

Porker:

RC:

Like I said before, a friend sent me the link to the video and he was pretty sure that the Panamera tested is the Turbo S, not the S, due to the competition. This is how easy people get misled. 

EVO is a magazine, in order to be informed about their tests and the reasoning behind it, one should read  it, that's all I'm trying to say.

The friend who sent me the video didn't even know that such magazine exists.   EVO isn't exactly popular...in Germany. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Porker:

RC:

Like I said before, a friend sent me the link to the video and he was pretty sure that the Panamera tested is the Turbo S, not the S, due to the competition. This is how easy people get misled. 

EVO is a magazine, in order to be informed about their tests and the reasoning behind it, one should read  it, that's all I'm trying to say.

Very true Porker but you are using yourself, a well informed and knowledegable car guy, as the reference, but the problem is that most people don't read, they just see a video and look no further and know no better, not they take the effort to.

So videos like this can be misleading, they shouldn't, there aren't to us, but unfortunately to most people they can be.

At the very least they should have showed the model versions and some specs including HP in the beginning of the video so that it would not lead to misinterpretation. But then the Panamera version that they choose would stand out as a wrong choice for the test so maybe that is why they made no mention of it  I don't know but such an excellent magazine like EVO should not be so careless IMO.

--

EVO is to me THE benchmark-magazine - miles before a HvS and his "academic reading" in his reviews. EVO writes about emotion and connectivity and not who has more HP or  is faster to 62.... - and let's face it : why not showing people what you get for yr money ? In fact I like the approach of being similar priced - eventhough I would also never drive a GTR over a GT3 -  it's a fair approach. Even HvS had to admit in SportAuto Super Test that the figures produced where only because the car was fully loaded with all technical "goodies" that money can buy adding something like 40 Euro in options.... - in my opinion it's about drivers pleasure and overall feel and people are too addicted about 0-100 or NBR times which 99% of them cannot reproduce anyway (NBR at least)

As much as I like EVO, if I had to choose I'd take HvS and SportAuto Supertest any day, its "data" while not reproducible by the normal owner, it gives you an idea of what the car is like in reality and you can extrapolate it to what the owner will experience to a certain degree in his spirited driving. EVO may be more emotional info but that is highly subjective and not necesarily extrapolated to the owner's own emotional experience, though its still fun to read and usefull when combined and placed into context along many other such type of reviews, though ultimately the driver can make up his own mind about that when driving it, yet he cannot conduct his own SuperTest.

Empirical type of information on the other hand is always more usefull and representative of reality, for example I don't see HvS doing what EVO did in this video, showcasing 4 cars in a drag test with one car chosen with a serious HP disadvatage and no info to the comparative HP. Makes no sense to do a drage test on luxury limos based stricktly on bang for buck, very misleading.

US cars live from "bang for the buck" vs EU cars (where else could they compete?) and I wonder how many GTR would have been sold if priced equally to a 997tt Mk2 ? I very much believe that unlike a lot of rennteam users  - a lot of drivers actually want the biggest bang for the buck and as much as I agree on what you say for those who have the luxury to choose -  I am not choosing a car by the amount of hp nor 0-100 times nor if HVS has driven it faster around a track than others. I would not want to have a SUV or a station wagon to have same performance as my "week-end toy" as most surely I would get bored to death having +/- same performance numbers....(RC will kill me for this ) but it's actually a lot of fun to drive my Fiat 500 to work and then experience a complete different "sensation" having 1 HP for every 3 kgs...  

BjoernB:

EVO is to me THE benchmark-magazine - miles before a HvS and his "academic reading" in his reviews. EVO writes about emotion and connectivity and not who has more HP or  is faster to 62.... - and let's face it : why not showing people what you get for yr money ? In fact I like the approach of being similar priced - eventhough I would also never drive a GTR over a GT3 -  it's a fair approach. Even HvS had to admit in SportAuto Super Test that the figures produced where only because the car was fully loaded with all technical "goodies" that money can buy adding something like 40 Euro in options.... - in my opinion it's about drivers pleasure and overall feel and people are too addicted about 0-100 or NBR times which 99% of them cannot reproduce anyway (NBR at least)

Sport Auto is still my favorite, I care about details and performance, not necessarily emotions. Emotions are based on an individual basis, somebody can have certain emotions I don't share when driving the same car. So what are emotions good for if I have different ones ?  I actually think that emotions shouldn't be the essence of a driving review because they vary from driver to driver. Just my personal opinion.

"What you get for your money" is a different side of the story but this is another point I actually don't care about, simply because I know what I can afford and what I can't.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Porker:

imo, it's just a simple clip to satisfy the subscribers to EVO's YouTube channel. The review itself is about so much more than simple acceleration times. They repeat time and again that performance-wise the Turbo (S) is the real competitor, but that that car is in another league price-wise.

Furthermore, it is commonly accepted that the RWD Panamera S provides the more enjoyable driving experience, so from a 'Thrill of driving' -EVO's tagline- perspective, choosing that version above the more powerful Turbo (S) makes perfect sense, again imo.

 Fully agree with you Porker, can´t understand all this fuz

J.Seven

BjoernB:

EVO is to me THE benchmark-magazine - miles before a HvS and his "academic reading" in his reviews. EVO writes about emotion and connectivity and not who has more HP or  is faster to 62.... - and let's face it : why not showing people what you get for yr money ? In fact I like the approach of being similar priced - eventhough I would also never drive a GTR over a GT3 -  it's a fair approach. Even HvS had to admit in SportAuto Super Test that the figures produced where only because the car was fully loaded with all technical "goodies" that money can buy adding something like 40 Euro in options.... - in my opinion it's about drivers pleasure and overall feel and people are too addicted about 0-100 or NBR times which 99% of them cannot reproduce anyway (NBR at least)

+1.   It's often amusing to see how obsessed people get about 5 seconds this way or that on a 'Ring time when there's not a chance they'd be able to replicate anything close to it themselves.

I agree that EVO is more subjective and SA more based on numbers, however if you have the chance to be able to read the SA Supertest (in other words to be able to read German), you will realize that HvS is at least as analytical as the EVO's writers in describing how a car handles and performs.

Besides, as remarkable as EVO is as a publication, I can not help thinking that it is primarily a publication made by "mere" reporters as opposed to real Sportscars buyers.  At least IMvHO.

ziggy - good points ! however, in EVO you have 1 guy who owns a 2 Lambo's (although selling seat-time to the public) and a 458, you have the editorial director owning from Ferrari (just ordered a Aventador) up to a Zonda  and you have with Barker and Harris (GT3RS4.0) very passionate "semi" professional drives who have also competed in the 24h of NBR....

Carlos from Spain:

Porker:

RC:

Like I said before, a friend sent me the link to the video and he was pretty sure that the Panamera tested is the Turbo S, not the S, due to the competition. This is how easy people get misled. 

EVO is a magazine, in order to be informed about their tests and the reasoning behind it, one should read  it, that's all I'm trying to say.

Very true Porker but you are using yourself, a well informed and knowledegable car guy, as the reference, but the problem is that most people don't read, they just see a video and look no further and know no better, not they take the effort to.

So videos like this can be misleading, they shouldn't, there aren't to us, but unfortunately to most people they can be.

At the very least they should have showed the model versions and some specs including HP in the beginning of the video so that it would not lead to misinterpretation. But then the Panamera version that they choose would stand out as a wrong choice for the test so maybe that is why they made no mention of it  I don't know but such an excellent magazine like EVO should not be so careless IMO.

--

Thanks for your clarification, Carlos.

I think I would love Sport Auto if I could understand it

All I see are the pictures, the numbers and the translated conclusions posted by you guys.

But I'm not fundamentally fixated on NBR lap times - there is so much more to the overall driving experience than the stopclock can indicate.

997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red