Crown

We do not need four cars, we need three cars.

The Mini Countryman Cooper S All4 is the "family" car, everybody in the family, incl. my parents, use it but mostly my wife. She loves the small(er) size of this mini-SUV and she loves driving it in the city.

The 997 Carrera GTS Cab is my car, this is the car which will be replaced by the Cayenne Turbo or Panamera Turbo S. I do not use this car as a daily driver and I do not drive in this car to work. Too flashy for work, not flashy enough for my neighborhood, thanks god.

The X5M is currently the family car and also the car I use as a daily driver, incl. driving to work.

The M3 Cab is actually my wife's car but it will be gone by summer because her lease runs out. We don't know yet which car will replace it but currently, it is sitting without license plates in the garage because we didn't want to buy new winter tires anymore since this car is horrible on snow and ice anyway.

So basically: We plan to stay with the Mini, the Cayenne or Panamera and with the X5M (until the lease runs out and it is going to be replaced with a car for my wife). Three cars.

Got it ? 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

RC:

We do not need four cars, we need three cars.

The Mini Countryman Cooper S All4 is the "family" car, everybody in the family, incl. my parents, use it but mostly my wife. She loves the small(er) size of this mini-SUV and she loves driving it in the city.

The 997 Carrera GTS Cab is my car, this is the car which will be replaced by the Cayenne Turbo or Panamera Turbo S. I do not use this car as a daily driver and I do not drive in this car to work. Too flashy for work, not flashy enough for my neighborhood, thanks god.

The X5M is currently the family car and also the car I use as a daily driver, incl. driving to work.

The M3 Cab is actually my wife's car but it will be gone by summer because her lease runs out. We don't know yet which car will replace it but currently, it is sitting without license plates in the garage because we didn't want to buy new winter tires anymore since this car is horrible on snow and ice anyway.

So basically: We plan to stay with the Mini, the Cayenne or Panamera and with the X5M (until the lease runs out and it is going to be replaced with a car for my wife). Three cars.

Got it ? 

RC, that means you have 2 garage queens right now..the M3 and the GTS ! Pls get rid of both of them

No, the M3 Cab is only in the garage because we didn't want to spend another 1200 EUR for winter tires since we have the Mini Countryman with AWD for the winter. 

I agree however that my wife still pays the lease for the M3 Cab, so it kind of doesn't make any sense but the lease runs out in July 2012, so she has to wait. She will drive her car again starting with March/April 2012.

The GTS however is a real garage queen and it has to go.

I kind of get the feeling, that you guys started to make fun of me... 

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

RC:

No, the M3 Cab is only in the garage because we didn't want to spend another 1200 EUR for winter tires since we have the Mini Countryman with AWD for the winter. 

I agree however that my wife still pays the lease for the M3 Cab, so it kind of doesn't make any sense but the lease runs out in July 2012, so she has to wait. She will drive her car again starting with March/April 2012.

The GTS however is a real garage queen and it has to go.

I kind of get the feeling, that you guys started to make fun of me... 

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Come on RC, was just asking   I'm sure you will get the Cayenne TTS over the Panamera TTS

RC, I thought the Pana was out of the question for you because you needed 5 seats?

get your wife an X6M, keep the mini and add the Pana Turbo S

Hmm, for what reason you need 2 SUV 's (X5M and Cayenne TT) ?

I would stay with X5M, Mini and get my hands on a 991 TT when its available. You've 2 cars for family driving and one for fun.

Easy, guy's.

I think Christian is even more confused now.. I certainly am (kidding) ..

throt

"I didn't do it"

intouch1:

get your wife an X6M, keep the mini and add the Pana Turbo S

This isn´t anymore a good idea.

Why would someone need X5/6M for city driving and shopping - it doesn´t make sense, or? Why destroy so much money??

Pana Turbo or Turbo S is also a question of sense. Pana isn´t a sportscar. In Germany you can´t drive so fast anymore. If buying tomorrow I would buy for my wife a Cayenne diesel or Audi A6 diesel and for me I would buy 911 cab.

AM
www.aldo-yachting.de

hunterone:

Hmm, for what reason you need 2 SUV 's (X5M and Cayenne TT) ?

I would stay with X5M, Mini and get my hands on a 991 TT when its available. You've 2 cars for family driving and one for fun.

 

This would make sense to me

I would get the facelifted Q5 (if it gets the new 3.0 tdi) as a daily driver, and a 997 gt3 as a fun car. but since you want a porsche as a daily drive the cayenne seems the best solution.

palenimbus:

RC, I thought the Pana was out of the question for you because you needed 5 seats?

It was...my wife didn't want 4 seats but apparently she is OK now with it, she fell in love with the Panamera (yes, I can't believe it but apparently women love this car). We still have the Mini Countryman Cooper S All4 if we need 5 seats.

My son seems to want the Panamera Turbo S, my wife too but my daughter insists that I get the Cayenne Turbo (nostalgia ...she practically grew up with our "old" Cayenne(s)).

Today I got an interesting lease offer for the 997 Turbo S...oh boy...I wish I would have had this deal when I decided to get the Carrera GTS Cab instead. 

It will be the Panamera Turbo S or the Cayenne Turbo Powerkit but I really have to decide wisely because there is no turning back once I signed the contract. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

hunterone:

Hmm, for what reason you need 2 SUV 's (X5M and Cayenne TT) ?

I would stay with X5M, Mini and get my hands on a 991 TT when its available. You've 2 cars for family driving and one for fun.

 

I have to repeat myself again: No more garage queen for me.

The 997 Carrera GTS Cab has to go next year and I have to lease a successor, any Porsche I like.

Since it has to be a "family" friendly Porsche, only the Panamera or Cayenne are in the game.

Since we don't need two "family" friendly high performance SUVs/cars, the X5 M has to go 2013 (lease end).

OK ? 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

ALDO:

Why would someone need X5/6M for city driving and shopping - it doesn´t make sense, or? Why destroy so much money??

Pana Turbo or Turbo S is also a question of sense. Pana isn´t a sportscar. In Germany you can´t drive so fast anymore. If buying tomorrow I would buy for my wife a Cayenne diesel or Audi A6 diesel and for me I would buy 911 cab.

I drive the X5M in the city, it is fun (I even drive with the M button active all the time) and if you say you can't drive fast in Germany, well...I can't talk about BW but in Bavaria, there are lots of occasions. I usually drive on weekends on the Autobahn and if it isn't holiday season, I can pretty much drive any speed I want to.

When it comes to (car) fun, I couldn't care less about fuel cost.

My wife actually wants a Diesel but she kind of has the feeling that most Diesel cars are not cool enough.  She was considering a Cayenne Diesel but A. it wouldn't make sense to own a Cayenne Diesel and Turbo (if I decide to get one) and B. the current lease cost for the Cayenne Diesel is way too high for what it offers.

Yes, Cabs are fun...when there is sun but since I spend most of the time on weekends with my family (wife, kids), the Cab is useless for me. One 911 Cab "adventure" is enough, never again. I'm not the Cab type of guy.

So in the end, we plan to stick with the following scenario:

1. Cayenne Turbo Powerkit or Panamera Turbo S for me

2. Mini Countryman Cooper S All4 for "everybody" in the family (especially when we need 5 seats, in case I choose the Panamera)

3. X5M (which will be replaced April 2013 by a car of my wife's choosing, very likely Diesel but a cheaper but "special" Cab, like for example a Camaro Cab, is still possible too, it just needs to have at least 4 seats)

Very simple plan... 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

RC, 

just to help u out a bit...

http://www.wheelsunplugged.com/ViewNews.aspx?newsid=12131

;)

dxpetrov:

RC, 

just to help u out a bit...

http://www.wheelsunplugged.com/ViewNews.aspx?newsid=12131

 

;)

I'm afraid this doesn't really matter to me...I lease my cars, I never buy them. One reason is because I want to avoid high depreciation, another one is the fact that I don't get attached too much to cars I don't really own and this is a good thing. If I get too attached to a car I own, I want to keep it forever and this is a serious problem since I'm not the Sultan of Brunei. 

I lost so much money on my Cayenne Turbo S, a car I actually bought, never again. One economic downfall is enough to drop prices on expensive luxury cars by a ton.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Do you really avoid high depreciation by leasing a car?  Isn't it really still in the price somewhere: generally the residual or in your case it's in the "put clause" - i.e. you have to take the next deal and it's not necessarily going to be as good or what you really want.

You can minimize it by holding longer (much longer), and/or by buying pre-owned (more "and" than "or"), but the only way of really avoiding depreciation is... by taking the bus.

Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)

Reading this it seems I need RC as a funding consultant for car purchases and financing.

I have always been a cash buyer and must say given the ever increasing costs of new Porsches have decided against buying new now. Perhaps I do the lease math wrong but fundamentally one does not excape the depreciation cost  Simple time value of money  That said, having the entry and exit price "subsidised" by the OEM to move cars does help, as well as running the lease through a business P/L too.

Would love to hear more about the 997TT lease

Budster:

Do you really avoid high depreciation by leasing a car?  Isn't it really still in the price somewhere: generally the residual or in your case it's in the "put clause" - i.e. you have to take the next deal and it's not necessarily going to be as good or what you really want.

You can minimize it by holding longer (much longer), and/or by buying pre-owned (more "and" than "or"), but the only way of really avoiding depreciation is... by taking the bus.

The thing is: I usually keep my cars 3-4 years, not longer. I get bored. I kept my last 997 Turbo 5 years, way too long, I was barely driving it in the end because I actually lost interest. It was bad ass fast (for a reason ) but I'm a car guy and car guys always want to try something new. 

For me, leasing the car had a huge advantage:

1. If I would have bought the car privately, I would have "lost" the 19% VAT in the process. Expensive cars in Germany sell only on the used car market if the buyer can deduct the VAT. If he can't...well...good luck.

2. Buying the car through the company would have been impossible, I needed over 160k EUR for that and with this kind of money, I'd rather buy merchandise at a reduced price. Lending that money was out of the question, my bank asks for at least 7% interest. Not worth it.

3. Leasing the car has huge advantages for me, the lease cost is completely deductible, even if the german tax office considers 1% of the list price per month as "income" on my tax report. Still worth it.

Buying is mostly an option for those who have money "left" to spend...if you get my drift.   I'm not the type of person to do that and the tax office always finds it a little bit suspicious if somebody buys a very expensive car privately. They often look into the transaction and if cash was involved, I don't need this crap. Many buyers don't even know that, until the tax office starts an audit. 

As to the "great" 997 Turbo S deal I got offered: Sorry, the car is already gone (just called) but all I can say is that apparently somebody didn't pick up an ordered car and they needed to move it very very fast.  I didn't have the precise details but it was practically the same I pay for my GTS Cab but with 5000 EUR more down payment. An excellent deal in my opinion.

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Aldo, you seem somewhat disappointed with your Panamera Turbo (balky cold PDK, would buy a 911 cab, can't drive fast in Germany any more, etc.).  Am I reading you wrong?  Would love to know your current impressions of owning the Panamera Turbo for some time now.  Maybe some likes/dislikes?  Thanks...

Wonderbar:

Aldo, you seem somewhat disappointed with your Panamera Turbo (balky cold PDK, would buy a 911 cab, can't drive fast in Germany any more, etc.).  Am I reading you wrong?  Would love to know your current impressions of owning the Panamera Turbo for some time now.  Maybe some likes/dislikes?  Thanks...

The only thing with my Panamera turbo what is not perfect it the gearbox. The rest is perfect. The car drives and feels good and the fuel consumption is incredible low.

I think that I need a software update for the gearbox. The behavior in comfort is strange. In sport it is ok and in sport plus to harsh.

In the morning when the oil is still cold the gearbox sometimes can´t put the first gear smooth. In comfort you start in 2nd gear and if you would like to accelerate more you press the throttle and then for a second or two nothing happens you press more and then the car accelerates like a rocket. Your passengers will ask you if everything is ok with you.

I would change the behavior of the comfort gearbox setting. I have heard that a software update will do this. I didn´t have time to take my car to the dealer. So maybe this is a solvable problem.

The other thing: for gearbox, dumper and start stop automatic setting they don´t have a memory function. When starting the car they are all in standard setting. I would like that they are in the last choosen setting.

I would buy this car again without any doubt. I also would buy a Panamera diesel (or a Cayenne or Audi A6 or Jaguar XJ or .....) for my wife and I would take a smaller car (new 911 turbo cab). If only thinking about  me, then only Panamera turbo or the new 911 turbo.

AM
www.aldo-yachting.de

ALDO:

The only thing with my Panamera turbo what is not perfect it the gearbox. The rest is perfect. The car drives and feels good and the fuel consumption is incredible low.

I think that I need a software update for the gearbox. The behavior in comfort is strange. In sport it is ok and in sport plus to harsh.

In the morning when the oil is still cold the gearbox sometimes can´t put the first gear smooth. In comfort you start in 2nd gear and if you would like to accelerate more you press the throttle and then for a second or two nothing happens you press more and then the car accelerates like a rocket. Your passengers will ask you if everything is ok with you.

I would change the behavior of the comfort gearbox setting. I have heard that a software update will do this. I didn´t have time to take my car to the dealer. So maybe this is a solvable problem.

The other thing: for gearbox, dumper and start stop automatic setting they don´t have a memory function. When starting the car they are all in standard setting. I would like that they are in the last choosen setting.

I would buy this car again without any doubt. I also would buy a Panamera diesel (or a Cayenne or Audi A6 or Jaguar XJ or .....) for my wife and I would take a smaller car (new 911 turbo cab). If only thinking about  me, then only Panamera turbo or the new 911 turbo.

Not just Porsche, BMW, AMG all has the same problem. The Sports settings are not sticky. I think it's for emission testing purpose so the cars default to the most annoying mode.

I REALLY wish the Sports button in my Porsche, the M button in my X6M, the Sports button in my 7 are in the form of a hard toggle switch, where it will stay where I want unless i toggle it back. I know they can do it as in my 7 the 'Comfort' mode, the even more annoying mode is stickied, so if I select that every time I start the car it stays there.

Whoopsy:

Not just Porsche, BMW, AMG all has the same problem. The Sports settings are not sticky. I think it's for emission testing purpose so the cars default to the most annoying mode.

It's just a safeguard to eliminate a source of possible product liability suits.
Systems default to the safest (=tamest) settings so that a driver not accustomed to the car cannot claim that an accident he caused resulted from him being taken by surprise by the "aggressive" settings as got into the driving seat, after someone else had selected the sport settings. 

fritz

ALDO:

The only thing with my Panamera turbo what is not perfect it the gearbox. The rest is perfect. The car drives and feels good and the fuel consumption is incredible low.

I think that I need a software update for the gearbox. The behavior in comfort is strange. In sport it is ok and in sport plus to harsh.

In the morning when the oil is still cold the gearbox sometimes can´t put the first gear smooth. In comfort you start in 2nd gear and if you would like to accelerate more you press the throttle and then for a second or two nothing happens you press more and then the car accelerates like a rocket. Your passengers will ask you if everything is ok with you.

I would change the behavior of the comfort gearbox setting. I have heard that a software update will do this. I didn´t have time to take my car to the dealer. So maybe this is a solvable problem.

The other thing: for gearbox, dumper and start stop automatic setting they don´t have a memory function. When starting the car they are all in standard setting. I would like that they are in the last choosen setting.

I would buy this car again without any doubt. I also would buy a Panamera diesel (or a Cayenne or Audi A6 or Jaguar XJ or .....) for my wife and I would take a smaller car (new 911 turbo cab). If only thinking about  me, then only Panamera turbo or the new 911 turbo.

Thanks for the report Aldo.  How often do you carry passengers in the rear seats?  Do back seat passengers enjoy their ride?  In my Cayenne TTS, I am constantly carrying friends or kids around, and they sit up rather high and have a good view outside.  I am a bit worried that the PTS sits much lower, and back seat passengers may feel "closed in" and cramped (even prone to car sickness from the lack of outside visiblity). 

Also, do you find the rear trunk space adequate for your needs? 

Any guidance would be helpful...

fritz:

Whoopsy:

Not just Porsche, BMW, AMG all has the same problem. The Sports settings are not sticky. I think it's for emission testing purpose so the cars default to the most annoying mode.

It's just a safeguard to eliminate a source of possible product liability suits.
Systems default to the safest (=tamest) settings so that a driver not accustomed to the car cannot claim that an accident he caused resulted from him being taken by surprise by the "aggressive" settings as got into the driving seat, after someone else had selected the sport settings. 

Too many lawyers with nothing to do and looking for ways to leech money is what's wrong with the world.

If an accident do occurred within the context of what you described, the responsibility is solely on the ignorant driver, no one else should be blamed.

if I drive around in a 911 out of my own limit and the tail swing out and caused an accident, Porsche shouldn't be blamed. But if I am in the middle of an intersection and I see a car ran a red light towards t-boning me, I tried to step on the gas to get out of the way but because of the lame mode the car doesn't move as quickly as I knew it could, Porsche should be 100% responsible for defaulting to lame mode causing the accident.

Wonderbar:

Thanks for the report Aldo.  How often do you carry passengers in the rear seats?  Do back seat passengers enjoy their ride?  In my Cayenne TTS, I am constantly carrying friends or kids around, and they sit up rather high and have a good view outside.  I am a bit worried that the PTS sits much lower, and back seat passengers may feel "closed in" and cramped (even prone to car sickness from the lack of outside visiblity). 

Also, do you find the rear trunk space adequate for your needs? 

Any guidance would be helpful...

I am a fan of a 4-seater. We had before a X6 and we enjoyed the 4 seats.

The rear seats are perfect - much better then in a Cayenne. You have also more leg room. The only concern could be that with black alcantara roof and black leather it is dark inside. The windows don´t bring much light inside. So if someone feels claustrophobic it could be a problem. You can solve it by choosing lighter leather interior. Or by choosing sunroof option.

The trunk - is OK - we have bought luggage from Rimowa which fits perfect. For skiing I have a skibox, the large one. All fits and even I could see without any problems thru the back window.

AM
www.aldo-yachting.de

I'm afraid I already know what I will get: The Cayenne Turbo.

We had a Panamera for the weekend but the kids don't like the low seating position and, like ALDO described it, they feel a little bit claustrophobic in the back of the Panamera. The windows are small and they barely can look out of them but they (the kids) also admitted that the seats are very comfortable but thats not the point. If the kids don't like it in the rear, the car is a no go for me.

Luggage room would have been OK, kind of limited using the ski sack but still OK. My wife hates roof transport boxes, so this wouldn't have been an option for us.

Today I received a Cayenne Turbo for test-driving and oh boy, do I like this car. It is a car which has been returned by the previous owner for various reasons and it is fully loaded with carbon and whatever, just the powerkit and PCCB are missing. My dealer made me an excellent (super excellent) offer for this car, new price was 155k EUR. I won't be able to take this deal because the powerkit is missing and because I still have the GTS Carrera Cab but we are working right now on a special deal with Porsche Financial which could allow me to get a Cayenne Turbo with all the options I want by April or May 2012. This isn't 100% sure yet but the Cayenne Turbo seems to be the right family car for me.

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Well, at least you know you've had about every question put to you on this and you've had your decision-making pushed to the limit.

It's been a fun thread - enjoy the count-down to the Cayenne!

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Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)