Crown

His brain will tell him to get the Cayenne for the practical side of things, his heart will tell him to get the Panamera as that's closer to driving a 911. Well a 911 that's 3 sizes bigger.

Martini:
I gotta comment here, since my wife has a Cayenne GTS (stick shift). We love it, but it (obviously) is just not a sports car or even close, even with the stick shift and sport exhaust and PDCC (as good as it is), and I just think if you had to pick, the Panamera should have more of a sports car feel than a Cayenne, no matter if it is Cayenne Turbo or Turbo S or Turbo whatever. I haven't driven a Panamera, but it just HAS to be funner to drive. Lower center of gravity, etc. I just don't see how there could be much argument, except for more luggage space. And the Panamera is gorgeous in person.

I like the momentum of this thread as the heart takes over from the head.  Excellent summary by Martini (and great name too!).  There is another argument (customers, 4 vs 5 seats etc), but the points Martini raises are just sooooooo compelling. 

Re the customers, that's clearly an important consideration, but I find that they kinda get used to it - it's not as if you're upgrading from a 1993 BMW 320i...  If your customer service is excellent (and from your attention to detail I'm sure it is), then they'll forgive you your small vices in life.  And you can always tell them it's a present from your wife!!

Beyond the important aspect of performance (which I admit I am unqualified to comment on) I will admit that never liked the look of the Panamera at first, until I realised I was looking at the Uma Thurman of cars.  And in the flesh it's even better.  The sheer scale of it is just so impressive.  The interior, that is potentially too luxurious for the 991, is a joy to behold in the Pana.

And BTW I (my wife) has the Cayenne so I'm not biased here..!

Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)

RC:

What is that with the Mini Cooper...my daughter also wants one but I'm afraid she has to wait another...five years, at least. My son would also love a Mini but the Cooper S but I already told him that I won't buy him a fast car after he just got his driver's license, no way. He still has 8 years or so to think about it... 

Apparently the Mini is some sort of "cool" car for the current generation, one of my younger employees also wanted a Mini but it was too expensive for her (and her dad ).

Adnan, stupid question since you are here now: Have you ever driven to Katschberg/Austria in winter time in your Panamera Turbo or any other place with lots of snow and very steep roads (up to 11%) ? I'm just curious how the Panamera Turbo performed on deep snow. Also, what winter tires do you have on your Turbo and are you happy with them (snow) ? Thanks.

Yes the Youth like the Mini. Mine son also wanted a Cooper S (BMW 1M, Golf R, ...). I have limited the horsepower to 120 PS. So he took the Cooper D - smart decision.

I was last year twice in the Alps in Winter with my Panamera without any problems. The last horror trip was on 24th december last year. I came from Austria with dry highway and had to stop short in Munich. At this time ti started to snow. I even didn´t see where the streets are going - I missed the Ausfahrt to the Ring. I had 3 hours to drive to my home. On the left side there where sometimes 30 km no one driving - the only one crazy guy - it was me. It wasn´t a problem. Sometimes the change between the lanes was pitty. 

Mine winter tires are 19" and I don´t know the model. I will go the next days to my dealer to change my wheels. I will tell you then. But if I could remember correct you could drive better in snow with the Panamera turbo than Cayenne turbo. The only thing the Cayenne is higher - less snow contact.

AM
www.aldo-yachting.de

dr.j:

Cayenne or Panamera? That's like saying you can either have sex with Rosie O'Donnell or Oprah, take your pick.

I agree with ha, keep the X5M, but since the GTS wasn't really as good a fit for you as you expected swap it for a 991S cab.

Maybe you should re-read my way too many posts regarding this matter.  The 991 Carrera S, especially the Cab, is a no go option for me.

@ALDO: Sounds really good (Panamera Turbo winter capability), maybe you can tell me about the winter tires you have (when you exchange them) and especially about braking performance of these tires. I had some pretty bad experiences with Cayenne winter tires (the Porsche recommended Pirelli Scorpion Ice & Snow were horrible for braking on snow and ice), so I am very careful.

@Everybody else: Guys, I would love to own both, the Cayenne Turbo and the Panamera Turbo S.  Right now, I'm thinking about the Panamera Turbo S because it delivers the best performance but I got a price tag of 183k EUR for this one (the Cayenne Turbo Powerkit with the options I want costs around 163k EUR), so this is really a lot of money. I plan to lease it, so I have to be lucky too to get a good lease offer from Porsche Financial. I still have time to decide until latest March 2012 or so, this is the moment I need to order the car to make sure I get it in time. I just wish Porsche would start the Panamera facelift with MY 2013...maybe I am lucky. 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

For a similar specced Panamera you pay quite a premium over a Cayenne. For me a no brainer, because I can't get used to the Panamera look. It just  looks too big, even the 20" wheels look small on it.

So my vote a Cayenne!

2012 Cayenne S White/Espresso 

Ex: 993 Targa, 986S, 986 and 964 C2

Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)

Budster:
So RC, this thread has definitely got you thinking..!

Dammit', are you even aware of what you started ? 

Yes, it got me thinking, I wasn't actually seriously considering the Panamera Turbo S but I do now.

Everything depends on the lease deal I get, money is still a key issue here. The Panamera Turbo S is 20k more expensive than the Cayenne with the similar options, so I really need to take that in consideration.

Wish me luck...(with better lease conditions early 2012).

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Oh, Pana TTS is such a bad a**!!!

Go for it and f*** ur costumers! :)

dxpetrov:

Oh, Pana TTS is such a bad a**!!!

Go for it and f*** ur costumers! :)

Unfortunately my customers "pay" for it. Not that easy to ignore them.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

well, given your concerns about your neighborhood, it will be a de-badged Cayenne. I think it is still easier in Germany to blend a Cayenne into your daily environment than a Panamera....

d997h:

well, given your concerns about your neighborhood, it will be a de-badged Cayenne. I think it is still easier in Germany to blend a Cayenne into your daily environment than a Panamera....

So true...only a German can understand.

Still...the Panamera is faster...

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Few hours ago a friend called me from Italy.

They will get a special tax for cars over 170 kW. For each kW over 170 kW you have to pay 20 € extra tax. So for a Panamera turbo S 4.700 € extra tax p.a. and for Panamera turbo 3.960 €.

I hope this extra tax isn´t part of the new Euro-contract presented by Merkel-Sarkozy. In this case we all have to pay it :(

AM
www.aldo-yachting.de

RC:

dxpetrov:

Oh, Pana TTS is such a bad a**!!!

Go for it and f*** ur costumers! :)

Unfortunately my customers "pay" for it. Not that easy to ignore them.

I can really relate to that. Sour grapes is a pain in the arse..

Its so frustrating. 

throt

"I didn't do it"

ALDO:

Few hours ago a friend called me from Italy.

They will get a special tax for cars over 170 kW. For each kW over 170 kW you have to pay 20 € extra tax. So for a Panamera turbo S 4.700 € extra tax p.a. and for Panamera turbo 3.960 €.

I hope this extra tax isn´t part of the new Euro-contract presented by Merkel-Sarkozy. In this case we all have to pay it :(

 

Italy needs money. In a year or two, Germany will need money too. Expect the worse...the SPD already suggested an income tax hike of 7-11% (49 or 53% income tax) and/or an additional tax for the rich. Apparently there are also suggestions to increase the "Kapitalertragssteuer" (capital gains tax) to 40-50%, they want to introduce also the "Vermögenssteuer" (capital tax) again, keep in mind that this tax is still "active" but the government didn't collect it anymore and there are also rumors about raising the "Erbschafts- und Schenkungssteuer" (inheritance and gift tax).

A nice future awaits us in Germany...the Eurozone is great.

Of course we will pay, the Eurozone is in deep sh.t and the consequence will be huge tax hikes over the next couple of years. An alternative would be to reduce the Euro parliament and to reduce government cost and spending but you know very well that this ain't going to happen.

Say hello to huge taxes and a very aggressive tax collecting system over the next decade.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Most popular Italian cars are below that kW limit. IMO it's more to promote sales of smaller engined cars in the hope that consumers will buy Italian. A kind of indirect import barrier.

"Form follows function"

reginos:

Most popular Italian cars are below that kW limit. IMO it's more to promote sales of smaller engined cars in the hope that consumers will buy Italian. A kind of indirect import barrier.

Yes and no. Monti is very clever: He didn't raise the maximum income tax level because he said that the biggest tax payers (who are actually paying taxes) are actually honest people and he wants to reward this. Amazing, finally a politician who thinks straight. On the other hand, he not only started to tax cars higher, he also introduced a daily (!) stationary tax for yachts (!) and all Italians now have to pay real estate tax (til now, all houses which were declared a "main" living location, were excluded from that tax and many cheated in a way or another to get this "status").

Monti tries to hit the rich most but I'm not sure this will work. Those who are really rich have loopholes (like for example moving their yacht to France or Croatia for example, not sure if it is cheaper there though) and I'm also pretty sure that there will be luxury cars specifically "targeting" that 170 kW limit (for example hybrids, the petrol engine power is 170 kW but the total system power could be 200 or 230 kW) and so on.

So far, the Monti "measures" don't sound too extreme but unfortunately I highly doubt that this is everything. There will be more and there will be a VAT hike at EU or at least Eurozone level. Italy has a 20% VAT, there is still room to 25%.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

ALDO:

Few hours ago a friend called me from Italy.

They will get a special tax for cars over 170 kW. For each kW over 170 kW you have to pay 20 € extra tax. So for a Panamera turbo S 4.700 € extra tax p.a. and for Panamera turbo 3.960 €.

I hope this extra tax isn´t part of the new Euro-contract presented by Merkel-Sarkozy. In this case we all have to pay it :(

Don't tell me nothing

I have to pay more of  10.000 euros for 3 cars(cayenne S,Cayenne Turbo,997 Trubo) of special tax

i whant to go out of Italy....horrible!

997TT RS Tuning stage II,2011 Cayenne Turbo

Get the Panamera Turbo S.. no contest. I know you like black cars and a blacked out Pana is very nice... black headlights, black window frames and so forth... way to go for a sporty and stealth looking family sedan that will outperform almost everything on the road ... The fact that the pana has PDK and that the Cayenne has Tiptronic is another argument for a person who like spiritied driving from time to time.



--

On Order: 991 C2S Basalt Black/Black - PDK, PSE, SPASM, SportChrono, etc.
Sold: 997.2 C2S Meteor Grey/Black - PDK, PSE, LSD, SportChrono, etc.
Sold: 997.1 C2S Black/Black - PSE, PCCB, -20mm/LSD, Short-shifter, SportChrono, etc.

Super Darius:

ALDO:

Few hours ago a friend called me from Italy.

They will get a special tax for cars over 170 kW. For each kW over 170 kW you have to pay 20 € extra tax. So for a Panamera turbo S 4.700 € extra tax p.a. and for Panamera turbo 3.960 €.

I hope this extra tax isn´t part of the new Euro-contract presented by Merkel-Sarkozy. In this case we all have to pay it :(

Don't tell me nothing

I have to pay more of  10.000 euros for 3 cars(cayenne S,Cayenne Turbo,997 Trubo) of special tax

 

i whant to go out of Italy....horrible!

For Yachts you have to pay from 4.320 (10 m) up to 54.000 € extra tax .....

So if you had worked hard and have a 17 m yacht 2-3 cars - you pay extra 30.000 € per year - wow

AM
www.aldo-yachting.de

Lukas:

Get the Panamera Turbo S.. no contest. I know you like black cars and a blacked out Pana is very nice... black headlights, black window frames and so forth... way to go for a sporty and stealth looking family sedan that will outperform almost everything on the road ... The fact that the pana has PDK and that the Cayenne has Tiptronic is another argument for a person who like spiritied driving from time to time.



--

On Order: 991 C2S Basalt Black/Black - PDK, PSE, SPASM, SportChrono, etc.
Sold: 997.2 C2S Meteor Grey/Black - PDK, PSE, LSD, SportChrono, etc.
Sold: 997.1 C2S Black/Black - PSE, PCCB, -20mm/LSD, Short-shifter, SportChrono, etc.

The PDK is the worst thing in the Panamera.

If the oil is cold it works like if a beginner is changing gears. Comfort modus is wrong programmed, sport is ok and sport plus is artificially programmed to hit the gears like a race car. I think a good 8-gears automatic would fit better. Or the PDK should be programmed different. Maybe my company should develop the gear changing software :)

AM
www.aldo-yachting.de

RC:

ALDO:

Few hours ago a friend called me from Italy.

They will get a special tax for cars over 170 kW. For each kW over 170 kW you have to pay 20 € extra tax. So for a Panamera turbo S 4.700 € extra tax p.a. and for Panamera turbo 3.960 €.

I hope this extra tax isn´t part of the new Euro-contract presented by Merkel-Sarkozy. In this case we all have to pay it :(

 

Italy needs money. In a year or two, Germany will need money too. Expect the worse...the SPD already suggested an income tax hike of 7-11% (49 or 53% income tax) and/or an additional tax for the rich. Apparently there are also suggestions to increase the "Kapitalertragssteuer" (capital gains tax) to 40-50%, they want to introduce also the "Vermögenssteuer" (capital tax) again, keep in mind that this tax is still "active" but the government didn't collect it anymore and there are also rumors about raising the "Erbschafts- und Schenkungssteuer" (inheritance and gift tax).

A nice future awaits us in Germany...the Eurozone is great.

Of course we will pay, the Eurozone is in deep sh.t and the consequence will be huge tax hikes over the next couple of years. An alternative would be to reduce the Euro parliament and to reduce government cost and spending but you know very well that this ain't going to happen.

Say hello to huge taxes and a very aggressive tax collecting system over the next decade.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Hi RC,

Fully agree to what you say about taxes and the next decades...I would even go that far that the supercar brands - lets include Porsche here too for the sake,  have had their best years alredy. In China things are already cooling down a lot, Russia not really that good either, India having not even started..lots of bla bla - but as en economy not that interesting so far..USA and EU...well - you have mentioned that already. I m really curios for example if Porsche wlll be able to hit the 100,000 cars barrier again next year too..I bet you it will not..Im quite sure about that.

Anyway, coming to the question here: why do you want to get rif of the GTS 997..you just got it...its a good car....dont come up with the excuse of "kids"..you have enough other cars..so..be a "man"..and remain "firm" during dinner time with children and wife around the table. Tenor: Porsche 997 GTS will not be sold and is not a subject anymore. PERIOD

You may have misunderstood me: My wife is pretty much cool with my car choices, she couldn't care less...unless I would get something very extreme, which wouldn't be too wise in our neighborhood. The grandfather of one of our son's friends owns a large factory in the region and he owns two Bentley. You should listen to the comments of the parents of the other kids...and they aren't really poor either. Difficult community, if you stand out too much.

The 997 GTS Carrera Cab has to go because of...me. It is my choice. Luckily, I have a wonderful wife, she accepts my hobbies, despite the cost (cars) and the great danger of injury (Krav Maga). I explained the reasons various times. I'm a family man, so I want to spend the weekends with my family and since the kids are still small, it works out just fine. Unfortunately we cannot drive in the GTS longer distances (over 50 km) because it is just too uncomfortable for the kids. We also cannot use the car for driving to Lake Garda, Europa Park or other short term destinations, it just isn't comfortable and we don't have enough room for luggage. I also can't drive the GTS to work. 

Bottom line is: I have a garage queen. By choosing a GTS Cab over the 997 Turbo S (the car I actually wanted), I had hoped that my wife would love to drive in and with it and that this would be an interesting alternative for the kids too because they love Cabs. I couldn't be more wrong. The only person who loves to drive in my GTS is my son and only because we don't have the Turbo anymore. Turbo here, Turbo there...this is all he talks about. He is a turbo guy. 

I can't afford a garage queen, yes it is about money too. If I had all the money in this world, I would surely have a 911 in my garage, very likely a GT3/RS or Turbo or Turbo S or even GT2RS. I can't afford it.

No, I won't drive around in a sh.tty daily driver, just to be able to afford a super sports car in my garage. I know many Porsche owners who do that but I can't. I love cars and I have to drive something special each and every day.  

Regarding the economic situation in Europe you mentioned: I still think that Porsche will sell 100000 cars and I even think they are going to hit 110000 or more by 2014. Many german companies strongly invest in US offices and factories and I think they believe that the risk of another recession in the US, a so called double dip recession, is banned. I believe that too. The markets will go up and down for some while but look at the worldwide financial news and you'll realize that most bad news are actually related to...the Eurozone and the Euro. Everybody worldwide is focusing strongly on Europe and I'm afraid not in a good way. I wouldn't count out China yet, China is one country and it doesn't have a democratic government, they have all the freedom they want to influence their financial system as they please. I wouldn't worry too much about China to be honest.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

With your special Porsche discount on your lease rate, is there a big difference between choosing a Panamera and the Cayenne?

Can you live with only 4 seats? Is the trunk space in the Panamera big enough for you?

Panamera Turbo S with a Hybrid badge or a Diesel badge would be the ticket.

If need to pick between the two than ultimately the Cayenne turbo is the ticket ,must have PCCB though,big difference to the steel brakes

Whoopsy:

With your special Porsche discount on your lease rate, is there a big difference between choosing a Panamera and the Cayenne?

Can you live with only 4 seats? Is the trunk space in the Panamera big enough for you?

Panamera Turbo S with a Hybrid badge or a Diesel badge would be the ticket.

 

There will be new lease deals for the Panamera and especially the Cayenne sometimes next year, so I can't say much right now. Currently, there is no special lease deal available for the Cayenne and the one available for the Panamera has been reduced substantially, making it much less attractive.

I could live with four seats in the Panamera because my wife would drive the X5 M for a couple of months and then she can decide what she wants to get. She could also keep the X5 M at a slightly higher lease rate but it would still be the hell of a SUV for that kind of money. Even if my wife would decide to get a new Cab, we would still have the Mini Countryman Cooper S All4 for moving five people, if we need to. My wife gave her OK for the Panamera Turbo S, so everything is about choices now and of course...money. 

Oh, I will definitely add the "Hybrid" badge on the Panamera or the Cayenne. It sounds stupid, I know but it makes a difference.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

hugo:

If need to pick between the two than ultimately the Cayenne turbo is the ticket ,must have PCCB though,big difference to the steel brakes

 

I love the PCCB, you know that but despite the higher cost, I'm not sure I would get it for the Cayenne. The PCCB brake discs are very sensitive to stone chips and if I drive it off-road, they (the discs) could be damaged seriously. It could also happen in winter time, german street cleaning services started to use little stones (gravel) instead of salt and these little stones could theoretically damage the discs if I drive through deep(er) snow. Just a theory of course, I haven't heard of anyone yet to have this problem but Porsche apparently doesn't recommend the PCCB for off-road driving because of that issue.

Another issue of course is money: The PCCB would drive the price up by almost 9000 EUR and since "my" optioned Cayenne Turbo and Panamera Turbo S already cost 163k or 183k EUR, adding another 9k EUR would be a deal breaker. I have to set a limit somewhere, especially since I put the car on the business. Keep in mind that the german tax office taxes me 1% of the car's list price incl. all options value per month as an additional income, so I don't have to present a driving log to them.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

PCCB is a lot of money for a little less fade - how often would you need that advantage?  For a slightly better final 3 laps at a track day?  (And who are you racing anyway?)  I'm not qualified to comment really, but it seems like a huge example of the law of diminishing returns given the usage, and given that the red ones aren't exactly drum brakes themselves... And you could of course paint even them yellow

Talking about painting brake callipers, it's only a small leap to sticking a hybrid label on a petrol-engined car.  Or a big one: painting callipers yellow (which no-one would actually do!) would be designed to show off - to pretend to have something better that you've actually got (which you, RC, would have absolutely no interest in doing), but I would suggest that adding the hybrid is actually a bigger sin than vanity: it's simply an act of deceit.

If you aren't prepared to actually make an "act of greenness", don't pretend to.  If you were found out (especially by your customers..?), it would suggest a level of aloofness and disdain that would be taken out of all proportion, and considered worse than being a climate-change denialist (which I don't think you are, but I'm not sure) - worse because a denialist is at least prepared to stand up for their view.  I'm not trying to be judgemental here, just putting up an argument against an action that might have been considered petty.  I don't think it is.

I state this also because I think we can drive our Porsches with the conviction that they are very green: if they are 3 times the CO2 emissions of the next car, they are likely to last more than 3 times longer (certainly the 911 anyway, and there's an argument accepted by the EU and taken to the extreme by Aston Martin that it's the average of the marque's full range where we need to be judged...).  Lasting 3 times longer means that they are at least as green.

Forget the hybrid badge, have the courage of your convictions, do the right thing, provide your customers with such great service and products that they celebrate your success, drive the neighbourhood with a deep sense that you are an upstanding, high tax-paying member of their and your community (and enhancing their property values!), and, most importantly (and I think you're getting closer on this...) :

Get the Panamera!!

--

Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)

Budster:

 

Forget the hybrid badge, have the courage of your convictions, do the right thing, provide your customers with such great service and products that they celebrate your success, drive the neighbourhood with a deep sense that you are an upstanding, high tax-paying member of their and your community (and enhancing their property values!), and, most importantly (and I think you're getting closer on this...) :

Get the Panamera!!

 

--

Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)

You've never been to Germany, right ?! 

I could provide the best service ever (I actually do, I know most of the people by their names and I know their dogs and cats and kids and nephews and...) but when it comes to money, people couldn't care less.

How do you think somebody who doesn't have a job or somebody who has a very small pension or somebody who has two or three kids and a low income, etc. feel about a luxury car in front of my business ? At least half of my customers belong to these groups, what do you think ?!

Yes, putting a hybrid badge on my car is a deceit but our whole society over here in Germany is about deceit. Me and my wife were friends with a married couple for two years, before we actually found out by mistake that they own a 911 Cab. We were invited to their house a couple of times, they knew that we have a Porsche and they never told us. Just one example. People over here usually try not to show off their wealth, especially not in the region I live in. It is different in larger cities like Munich for example but the next big town is a typical worker's town with an industrial tradition and people aren't too wealthy over here. 

Showing off too much wealth over here would be financial suicide.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

I've been to Germany a couple of times, but I admit I have no idea of the customs and psyche of the people.  But I presume it's like the UK where I grew up in a small town, where - especially "in the provinces" - this mentality pervades.  It's the same mentality - set to a younger and more yobbish demographic - that Clarkson complains about when he describes the amount of "gob" (saliva" that the cabriolet driver finds on his seat when he leaves his top open in the street.

It's the same mentality that pervades the whole world right now, where the people that took the mortgage loans that they knew they couldn't afford won't share the blame with the bankers that lent it rather recklessly.  The bankers themselves wouldn't dare place that argument on the table in their own defence (and I'm not suggesting they should!)

So I do have sympathy.  Even here in SA, where we don't deserve to be immune but for some reason we are blessed with the opposite reaction from even the poorest (I've described this before), I have found the odd bad reaction from "friends", "colleagues", and "neighbours".   Luckily perhaps, I don't have my own business, so I don't have your dilemma.  And I'm sorry for starting the thread... 

OK, well, not really!!!, so I'm going to still try and prepare your defence!

If you've got away with a 911 cabriolet - which is a VERY flashy, rock-star, flash and extroverted vehicle, most people would probably consider a 4 seater, more practical family sedan far less ostentatious.  They would probably see it as a compromise for a guy that would like a 911 but has a family and needs to be sensible, given tough times.  Hey, wow, that's even thr truth here, isn't it?

Another question: why do you need 4 cars anyway..?  I can understand you needing 3 considering the impracticality of the 997 cab, but with an X5M and a Panamera, you wouldn't need the Mini - and the M3 is a complete mystery - you haven't even mentioned it (defended it's existence!) in any of the recent threads on your dilemma!

I hope you're enjoying this public hearing - if you're finding it too invasive, please tell us to stop!!

Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)