Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Bad 2017 start for sportscars in Germany? - Page1

Feb 17, 2017 11:21:18 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59579, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002

Bad 2017 start for sportscars in Germany?

In January 2017, only 2035 new sportscars were registered in Germany (2016 comparison: 3618).

Especially the Audi TT (minus 58.2%), the Porsche 911 (minus 24.8%) and the Ford Mustang (minus 44%) were affected.

Still, the Audi TT and the Porsche 911 are the top sportscars in Germany with 420 and 407 new registrations.

The Ford Mustang was third with 280 registrations.

Within the first Top 10 cars were:

4th place: Mercedes SLK/SLC (244 new registrations)

5th place: Porsche Boxster (109)

6th place: Porsche Cayman (68)

7th place: Mercedes AMG GT (66)

8th place: Chevrolet Camaro (60)

9th place: Audi R8 and Mercedes SL (both with 58 registrations)

The Mercedes E class Coupe dropped from the Top 10 in January.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

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Feb 17, 2017 1:27:37 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12585, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: Bad 2017 start for sportscars in Germany?

Interesting - I have been hearing conflicting info as to whether the new turbocharged Boxster/Cayman/911 were selling well or not...

--

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

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Feb 17, 2017 1:30:01 PM

KMM: Expert; Loc: Boston, MA , United States; Posts: 1745, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 5, 2004; Reply to: Grant

Re: Bad 2017 start for sportscars in Germany?

Dealers in New England area tell me they are not moving. May have been introduced too late in the season (Fall).

RC, was this January unusual in any way? Weather? Political distractions?

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Feb 17, 2017 2:08:52 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59579, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: KMM

Re: Bad 2017 start for sportscars in Germany?

KMM:
Dealers in New England area tell me they are not moving. May have been introduced too late in the season (Fall).

RC, was this January unusual in any way? Weather? Political distractions?

Weather wasn't that great (pretty cold) but nothing really unusual. Smiley

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

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Feb 17, 2017 3:12:36 PM

SciFrog: Rennteam VIP; Loc: USA , United States; Posts: 9870, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 15, 2005; Reply to: RC

Re: Bad 2017 start for sportscars in Germany?

As implied in the other thread, I think the mainstream alternative cars are becoming so good that it makes sports cars less interesting. Like the Macan turbo. It blurries the lines of SUV, sporty sedan and sports car. And at the same time the sport cars are becoming more like mainstream cars (991.2 being confortable and turbo engines). I believe the future of the sport car market is more hardcore but at a smaller scale. And that's what Porsche is missing by not providing GT3 worthy variants (rear seats, wing delete, convertible). The other issue for popular sport cars in big US metro is that there are so many around that they don't stand out. The proportion of people buying a sport car there just for driving pleasure is small, they just want something different. And with top of the range 911 getting too close to Ferrari prices, they move on...

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Feb 17, 2017 3:31:11 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59579, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: SciFrog

Re: Bad 2017 start for sportscars in Germany?

You really like your Macan Turbo, don't you?

Drive a RSQ3 Performance (not sure if those are available in the US) and you'll be surprised.

I do not think that this is the problem here with the German sportscar market.

The Audi TT RS wasn't available, same goes to other TT models because of issues with a coolant.

The 911 is a different story, Porsche switched to a bi-turbo engine and this may have caused some issues (not sure about it yet though). Also, some people were expecting the GTS and the new GT3.

Ford Mustang? Didn't they announce the facelift?

I am more surprised how little AMG GT were registered compared to the 911. Wasn't the AMG GT supposed to be AMG's 911? angry

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

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Feb 17, 2017 5:13:50 PM

Lars997: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: South , Germany; Posts: 9448, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 8, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: Bad 2017 start for sportscars in Germany?

RC:
In January 2017, only 2035 new sportscars were registered in Germany (2016 comparison: 3618).

Especially the Audi TT (minus 58.2%), the Porsche 911 (minus 24.8%) and the Ford Mustang (minus 44%) were affected.

Still, the Audi TT and the Porsche 911 are the top sportscars in Germany with 420 and 407 new registrations.

The Ford Mustang was third with 280 registrations.

Within the first Top 10 cars were:

4th place: Mercedes SLK/SLC (244 new registrations)

5th place: Porsche Boxster (109)

6th place: Porsche Cayman (68)

7th place: Mercedes AMG GT (66)

8th place: Chevrolet Camaro (60)

9th place: Audi R8 and Mercedes SL (both with 58 registrations)

The Mercedes E class Coupe dropped from the Top 10 in January.

Very interesting - but I have my doubts that there are even 58 new model Mercedes SL running in Germany over all. Smiley For sure 58 out of that 58 cars been registered to the name of the Mercedes company. The car is unsalable in Germany - never seen one on the street probably never will.

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Feb 18, 2017 1:09:17 AM

mcdelaug: Expert; Loc: Fort Worth, Texas , United States; Posts: 1912, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 3, 2004; Reply to: Lars997

Re: Bad 2017 start for sportscars in Germany?

I agree with scifrog. The future must lie with more individualization of cars to maximize emotional impact. With 3D printing, I think we will see far more 'bespoke' type offerings in the near future.

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Feb 18, 2017 4:04:54 AM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13735, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: SciFrog

Re: Bad 2017 start for sportscars in Germany?

SciFrog:
As implied in the other thread, I think the mainstream alternative cars are becoming so good that it makes sports cars less interesting. Like the Macan turbo. It blurries the lines of SUV, sporty sedan and sports car. And at the same time the sport cars are becoming more like mainstream cars (991.2 being confortable and turbo engines). I believe the future of the sport car market is more hardcore but at a smaller scale. And that's what Porsche is missing by not providing GT3 worthy variants (rear seats, wing delete, convertible). The other issue for popular sport cars in big US metro is that there are so many around that they don't stand out. The proportion of people buying a sport car there just for driving pleasure is small, they just want something different. And with top of the range 911 getting too close to Ferrari prices, they move on...

I agree with much of your post. When you consider that 70% of all Porsche's ever built are still on the road, it gives pause to any new car buyer. That's why Porsche is positioning the 911 as more than a sport car. It serves many purposes very much like cross over SUV's.

--

"A man wrapped up in himself makes for a very small bundle."

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Feb 18, 2017 1:55:01 PM

bluelines: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Argovia , Switzerland; Posts: 11655, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 29, 2005; Reply to: RC

Re: Bad 2017 start for sportscars in Germany?

RC:
You really like your Macan Turbo, don't you?

Smiley

It is everything you could ever ask for. If Porsche could only make a Macan GT5 cabrio then they could stop selling all other cars.

--

2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White

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Feb 19, 2017 12:55:32 PM

Enzo II: Veteran; Loc: Spain , Spain; Posts: 1248, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 1, 2006; Reply to: bluelines

Re: Bad 2017 start for sportscars in Germany?

For comparison...in Spain, Jan17, considering the same cars

1. Ford Mustang 54 (+54%)

2. TT 23 (-32%)

3. 911 21 (+10%)

4. Cayman 7 (-12%)

5. Boxster 7

6. Mercedes SLC 2

7. AMG GT 1

Non R8, Camaro or SL.

And considering 2016, with a bigger picture:

1. Mustang 553

2. 911 241

3. TT 184

4. SLK/ SLC 93

5. Boxster 85

6. Z4 66

7. F-Type 72

8. Cayman 66

9. 370Z 62

10. i8 39

11. 458/488 30

12. 4C 29

13. SL 27

14. AMG GT 24

15. Continental 24

GTR 20, GranCabrio/GranTurismo 16, R8 15, California 13, Huracan 9, Aventador 7, F12 7, DB9/11 7, FF/GTC4 4, Morgan 4, 650S 3, Evora 3, X-Bow 2, Vantage 2, Vanquish 2, Elise 1, 918 1

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Feb 19, 2017 1:47:02 PM

crayphile: Rennteam Pro; Loc: England , United Kingdom; Posts: 2861, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 16, 2004; Reply to: bluelines

Re: Bad 2017 start for sportscars in Germany?

bluelines:
RC:
You really like your Macan Turbo, don't you?

It is everything you could ever ask for. If Porsche could only make a Macan GT5 cabrio then they could stop selling all other cars.

Smiley

@Scifrog - you are consistent and there is a lot to be said that ( I mean that in a positive sense). However, the Macan Turbo really is no benchmark for anything other than a mid-sized SUV of which it is clearly the best available.

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Feb 19, 2017 10:43:35 PM

Ziggy: Expert; Loc:; Posts: 1600, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 27, 2004; Reply to: crayphile

Re: Bad 2017 start for sportscars in Germany?

crayphile:
bluelines:
RC:
You really like your Macan Turbo, don't you?

It is everything you could ever ask for. If Porsche could only make a Macan GT5 cabrio then they could stop selling all other cars.

@Scifrog - you are consistent and there is a lot to be said that ( I mean that in a positive sense). However, the Macan Turbo really is no benchmark for anything other than a mid-sized SUV of which it is clearly the best available.

Smiley Smiley

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Feb 20, 2017 11:54:26 AM

BjoernB: Rennteam Master; Loc: Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 4100, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 19, 2004; Reply to: Ziggy

Re: Bad 2017 start for sportscars in Germany?

2nd Hand car-prices will be super attractive in 2017

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Feb 20, 2017 12:12:59 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59579, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: bluelines

Re: Bad 2017 start for sportscars in Germany?

bluelines:
RC:
You really like your Macan Turbo, don't you?

It is everything you could ever ask for. If Porsche could only make a Macan GT5 cabrio then they could stop selling all other cars.

Smiley Smiley

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

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Feb 20, 2017 12:14:55 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59579, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Lars997

Re: Bad 2017 start for sportscars in Germany?

Yes, the 58 SL were definitely dealer cars. Nobody buys the SL anymore in Germany and I am not surprised. What for? The AMG GT is the much better SL.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

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Feb 20, 2017 2:33:24 PM

sfo: Rennteam Pro; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 2093, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 17, 2011; Reply to: RC

Re: Bad 2017 start for sportscars in Germany?

I bought a pre facelift heavy spec 15 month old SL400 with 1000 miles at around 55% list price.

Actually a superb base SL roadster. Chassis is stiff, engine is powerful enough (if dull) and a very usable 'every day' car. I am a big fan. Build quality is pretty good.

I have even come to like its looks :)

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Feb 20, 2017 4:41:21 PM

SciFrog: Rennteam VIP; Loc: USA , United States; Posts: 9870, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 15, 2005; Reply to: crayphile

Re: Bad 2017 start for sportscars in Germany?

crayphile:
bluelines:
RC:
You really like your Macan Turbo, don't you?

It is everything you could ever ask for. If Porsche could only make a Macan GT5 cabrio then they could stop selling all other cars.

@Scifrog - you are consistent and there is a lot to be said that ( I mean that in a positive sense). However, the Macan Turbo really is no benchmark for anything other than a mid-sized SUV of which it is clearly the best available.

Mid size crossover SUV in EV form are the future of the luxury automobile industry. At the top of that segment cars like the Macan are already blurring the lines with sporty sedans especially in the context of limited speeds on the road and congestion. Wait until Aston Martin and Bentley puts their fingers into that segment...

RR has proven there is a niche market for convertible SUV, the real issue is that you loose the hatch rear door and thus a lot of practicality. So blues, as funny as your post wants to be, you put the finger on something (as you usually do).

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Feb 20, 2017 5:09:07 PM

Whoopsy: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Vancouver,BC , Canada; Posts: 16151, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 19, 2006; Reply to: SciFrog

Re: Bad 2017 start for sportscars in Germany?

Hmm, convertible SUV? Niche? Ask Nissan

--

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Feb 20, 2017 5:59:34 PM

crayphile: Rennteam Pro; Loc: England , United Kingdom; Posts: 2861, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 16, 2004; Reply to: sfo

Re: Bad 2017 start for sportscars in Germany?

sfo:
I have even come to like its looks :)

That's all that counts. Though I'm not going to your optician Smiley Smiley Smiley .

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Feb 20, 2017 6:33:42 PM

sfo: Rennteam Pro; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 2093, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 17, 2011; Reply to: crayphile

Re: Bad 2017 start for sportscars in Germany?

crayphile:
sfo:
I have even come to like its looks :)

That's all that counts. Though I'm not going to your optician .

It's the same as a mother loving an ugly baby 👶

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Feb 20, 2017 6:40:54 PM

crayphile: Rennteam Pro; Loc: England , United Kingdom; Posts: 2861, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 16, 2004; Reply to: sfo

Re: Bad 2017 start for sportscars in Germany?

sfo:
crayphile:
sfo:
I have even come to like its looks :)

That's all that counts. Though I'm not going to your optician .

It's the same as a mother loving an ugly baby 👶

Exactly , and that's all that counts

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Feb 21, 2017 1:16:13 PM

996FourEss: Senior; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 799, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 15, 2011; Reply to: bluelines

Re: Bad 2017 start for sportscars in Germany?

I agree bluelines, Macan Turbo is just great. Only issue is the engine just doesn't sound good from inside the car and I wish they could shoe-horn in the new four liter V8 (although I know in this day and age and with what has happened with Boxer / Cayman there is a snow flakes chance in hell this happens....). That said, the Macan Turbo is a car that continues to grow on one.

Re the Q3 RS, I have to say it is something that is positively surprising - logically you would not think it makes sense but I found it just great to drive and it sounds great as well! That said, just a test drive... if that was the market I was in I would actually seriously consider it over the RS3.....

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Feb 21, 2017 2:05:49 PM

dreamcar: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Hampshire , United Kingdom; Posts: 8797, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 19, 2004; Reply to: 996FourEss

Re: Bad 2017 start for sportscars in Germany?

If I was in the market right now for a sports / sporty car the Audi RS3 would be my choice by a long way, now that the option of buying a six cylinder Porsche sports car at an affordable price (for me) has seemingly gone for good.

--

Porsche Boxster GTS Carrara white / Volvo V40 D4 R Design daily drive

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Feb 22, 2017 10:16:33 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59579, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: dreamcar

Re: Bad 2017 start for sportscars in Germany?

dreamcar:
If I was in the market right now for a sports / sporty car the Audi RS3 would be my choice by a long way, now that the option of buying a six cylinder Porsche sports car at an affordable price (for me) has seemingly gone for good.

--

Porsche Boxster GTS Carrara white / Volvo V40 D4 R Design daily drive

The new RS3 is amazing and a real bargain in my opinion. Smiley

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

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May 12, 2017 12:46:20 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59579, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: Bad 2017 start for sportscars in Germany?

Registration numbers for April 2017 (Germany):

4516 sportscars.

Aston Martin Vanquish 1

Ferrari FF 2

BMW Z4 2

Ferrari F12 3

Chevrolet Corvette 3

Maserati Granturismo 8

Ferrari California 20

BMW i8 25

Nissan GT-R 27

Lamborghini Aventador 33

Ferrari 488 53

Chevrolet Camaro 60

Porsche Cayman 76

Mercedes AMG GT 80

Audi R8 94

Jaguar F-Type 206

Porsche Boxster 311

Audi TT 720

Ford Mustang 725

Porsche 911 918

Also interesting: Cayman sales have dropped 66,8%, 911 sales dropped 14,2% but Jaguar F-Type and R8 have gained (10,8% and 13,2%).

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

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May 12, 2017 1:30:50 PM

DaveC: Veteran; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 1068, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 16, 2005; Reply to: RC

Re: Bad 2017 start for sportscars in Germany?

Good to hear favorable opinions about the RS3. We are driving the S3 this weekend but I want to wait for the RS3 (not yet available in US) before making any decisions about getting out of the wife's A3 into something new.

--

"Don't worry about avoiding temptation, as you grow older it will avoid you" Churchill

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May 13, 2017 9:46:52 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59579, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: DaveC

Re: Bad 2017 start for sportscars in Germany?

The new RS3 is a treat, I cannot believe this sound is street legal (in Germany).

I am seriously planning to replace my Mini JCW with the RS3 sedan.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

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