Crown

Just sharing my experience with tires: Michelin Pilot Sport 2 versus Michelin Pilot Super Sport versus R compound Pirelli Corsa. As usual, any expert, or even non-expert :-), please correct me as needed.

For reference: My Turbo came with Michelin Pilot Sport 2, which I used for a year and a half/18,000 miles (rear tires changed once). The Pilot Sport 2 was followed by R compound Pirelli Corsa, after I had foolishly tried to follow a 997.2 GT3 on canyon roads - talk about bringing a knife to a gun fight.  My Turbo blew away the GT3 in straight line acceleration - not even remotely close, but on the twisty roads of Los Angeles canyons, the *&^%$# GT3 left my babe in the dust.   Indeed, the Pirelli Corsa did a lot to make my Turbo baby whole again, and I made note to self to NEVER again race another car on un-equal tires -  tire is a critical part of the suspension system. At any rate, the Corsa has lasted about 14 months/12000 miles or so, which brings us to now. Because I drive my car daily to work and because I always want to experiment and compare, I will take a break from this love-hate relationship with the Corsa (see comments below). Conveniently, I need replacement tires at the same time that Michelin is going all out promoting their newest and latest, Michelin Pilot Super Sport.
Btw, it's important to note that my Turbo's stock suspension has been replaced with Bilstein B16 Damptronic, making the car stiffer than both 997.1 and 997.2 Turbo.

Comments about Pirelli Corsa:
1. R comp has superior traction, that's obvious. Not often discussed is the stiff side wall, and its very significant effect on the feel of the car and its handling capability. IMHO, the stiff wall "stabilizes" the soft Turbo suspension by reducing the excessive weight transfer (body roll). My Turbo with R compound feels more planted with the Corsa; it takes corners with confidence, perfectly flat, and perfectly beautiful. Pilot Sport 2 feels more comfortable of course, but also disturbingly rubbery soft. In my mind, there is no question whatsoever that into a corner at speed, the car leans more with PS2, than with Pirelli Corsa. Corsa feels stiff, heavy, and with much less body roll. In other words, planted.
2. Either I did not do my research well enough, or not enough has been discussed about the Corsa's road noise as it becomes old either. This tire did not age well with respect to stiffness, and particularly noise. All tires become noisier and stiffer as they age, but the Corsa seems to take an exponential leap towards the end of its life. The noise is excessive whether just rolling on the freeway, a loud, annoying din, or when hitting a sharp road bump, which results in a loud sickening crack, instead of a thump. When new, I don't think the noise was bad at all, towards the end, it is almost deafening. I will try Michelin Cup next and see if it's different; I've been told that it's better.
3. The usual warning about R comp tire: it's dangerous when road is wet, it's not good until it gets up to temp, and it runs lower pressure: 32 front/36rear hot, meaning in your turbo the tire alarm will be on always. Mark my words on this: that alarm sign gets on one's nerves!
4. I am almost too afraid to talk about rolling resistance :-), but for whatever reason, whether lower operating pressure or higher rolling resistance, the Corsa makes the steering feel heavier, and the car "feel" heavier, even though it is the lighter tire by weight. Whether any of this is real, or just in my head, I don't know. The question is whether tires with more traction have more rolling resistance (yes, right?), and if so, if I were to go for straight line speed, I think a street tire is faster than R comp.

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Regards,
Can
997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic "Stage 2" ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Custom Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )

cannga:

4. I am almost too afraid to talk about rolling resistance :-), but for whatever reason, whether lower operating pressure or higher rolling resistance, the Corsa makes the steering feel heavier, and the car "feel" heavier, even though it is the lighter tire by weight. Whether any of this is real, or just in my head, I don't know. The question is whether tires with more traction have more rolling resistance (yes, right?), and if so, if I were to go for straight line speed, I think a street tire is faster than R comp.

 

 Very interesting write-up 

On  your last point: this is how I feel it as well - but only at lower speeds. As soon as you do some Autobahn driving, for example, the rolling resistance of Cup or other UHP tires seems to be lower than with conventional tires. At lower speeds the UHP feels more rigid (or "heavier") as you describe it. Personally, I like this characteristic a lot 

BTW, the stiffest tire should be the Michelin Cup. Maybe you should also try this to get the full picture

Markus, thanks.  I am glad you confirm the rigidity/heavy feel with R comp tires  - I've not seen this discussed much by anyone.  Yes I love it too because as you know, the Turbo's stock "feel" is so soft and lightweight it "kills" me. ffforever, yes I plan to give my *opinions*, not a "review." I am a mere amateur with limited amateur's resources - could not compare the car back to back, could not compare the tires when they are both new, am not a professional driver testing car on the track, etc., etc. So review no, but yes "opinions" I will have plenty!

Anyway I must first set up the table before serving the food - I only have the tires for a few days and don't want to put my foot in my mouth! I am stalling for time. In addition, tire wall stiffness will be very important to my opinion of  PSS vs. Corsa. My interest in tire's side wall stiffness stems from a comment Walter what's-his-name made a while ago. They were preparing that GT3 that Porsche was going to show off by driving it to the N'ring race track, race it, then drive "home." Somewhere along the line, they decided to replace the R comp on that GT3 with Slick, and WR made a comment to the effect that when you change to a stiffer tire, you must change to a sitffer spring as well, and vice versa. Otherwise, the softer component of the 2 will be "overloaded."

In trying to understand the statement by WR, I could see that a tire acts in many important aspects like  a spring. It compresses, then rebounds.
In a stacked spring setup with 2 springs, one on top of another (main + tender), found in some coil-over suspensions,  the final rate of the dual-spring setup is given by the formula:
F= (A x B) / (A+B). So if spring A's rate is 20, and B is 30, then final rate is 12, quite low.
But watch: if A is 20, and B is 80, the final rate is still only 16. So, no matter how high B is, the final rate takes on the characteristic of the softer of the 2 springs, A.
So the bottom line? If you think of the tire as one spring, and your car's suspension system as another spring, one on top of the other. I think you have seen the logic behind WR's statement. A soft tire could well screw up your nicely stiff, race track ready, GT2's system. It lowers the overall "spring rate" of the system, to a point that's lower than the lowest, namely the soft tire. This is why you don't want to put street tires on your precious GT2. And vice versa, you may not want to put stiff R comps on your softly sprung Turbo without first stiffening the springs.
I think I might have lost everyone? I myself need a couple aspirins now.

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Regards,
Can
997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic "Stage 2" ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Custom Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )

In the past, when someone stated changing to a "cup" tire (aka R compound Pirelli Corsa or Michelin Cup) means a significant improvement on the Nurburgring time, I would think it was all about better traction. It is now apparent to me that I was mistaken, that there is another parameter besides traction that is responsible for the usually surprisingly significant improvement, and this other parameter is the tire'e sidewall stiffness. The increased in suspension stiffness, merely from switching to stiffer tire, IMHO is not too dissimilar from changing to a stiffer spring. And as you already know, on a flat surface, stiffer cars take corners faster. This increased stiffness is very significant, and very obvious even to amateur's driver like me. That's why I have used the word "transformation" to describe the switch from street tire like Pilot Sport, to R compound tire like Pirelli Corsa. If you ever want to emulate the feel of a GT3 or GT2 in your Turbo, besides stiffening the springs, a change to R compound tire *is* an absolute must. There is no way around it.

Anyway, from a tire discussion standpoint, the 2 parameters, traction and sidewall stiffness, intertwine, and an all out performance tire needs to have both. It is useless to have one without the other.
1. Assuming you have a tire with very stiff sidewall. The stiff sidewall will allow the car to take corners faster because there is less body roll/weight transfer. Without an appropriate increase in traction, car will slide sideways. It won't body-roll, but it will slide sideways as the tire's traction cannot hold the centripetal force. In other words, stiff sidewall is useless if tire does not have appropriate increase in traction.
2. OTOH, assuming you have a tire with superior traction, but its sidewall soft. When this car speeds into a corner, the soft sidewall causes car to body-roll, limiting cornering speed. Even though the tire has superior traction, this traction is never "tested" because max speed in corners is limited by body rolls. In other words, superior traction is wasted if tire sidewall cannot support against weight transfer/body roll.

I think this should be my final thought on sidewall stiffness as I have this feeling it's driving people away from this thread . I promise  that the discussion so far *is* quite relevant to the Michelin Pilot Sport versus Pirelli Corsa comparison. Seasoned veterans among you probably already know what I am leading to, whether number 1 or number 2 above is the Michelin Pilot Super Sport, strictly from a performance standpoint. No doubt, it is the more comfortable and more quiet tire. A much better daily driver's tire.
 

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Regards,
Can
997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic "Stage 2" ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Custom Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )

Did I miss something? Where are your observations on the Michelin PSS?

And yes, I agree with you. If tire characteristics change it affects the overall suspension behavior, and if the suspension changes, tires should also change to accomodate that. BYW, both also affect ABS. That is why I am a fan of stock suspension and N-rated tires.

_________________________________________________________________ 

"Dream as impractical, irrational and unnecessary as that may be... Here's to the Dreamers!" -- Porsche AG.

cannga:

In the past, when someone stated changing to a "cup" tire (aka R compound Pirelli Corsa or Michelin Cup) means a significant improvement on the Nurburgring time, I would think it was all about better traction. It is now apparent to me that I was mistaken, that there is another parameter besides traction that is responsible for the usually surprisingly significant improvement, and this other parameter is the tire'e sidewall stiffness. The increased in suspension stiffness, merely from switching to stiffer tire, IMHO is not too dissimilar from changing to a stiffer spring. And as you already know, on a flat surface, stiffer cars take corners faster. This increased stiffness is very significant, and very obvious even to amateur's driver like me. That's why I have used the word "transformation" to describe the switch from street tire like Pilot Sport, to R compound tire like Pirelli Corsa. If you ever want to emulate the feel of a GT3 or GT2 in your Turbo, besides stiffening the springs, a change to R compound tire *is* an absolute must. There is no way around it.

Anyway, from a tire discussion standpoint, the 2 parameters, traction and sidewall stiffness, intertwine, and an all out performance tire needs to have both. It is useless to have one without the other.
1. Assuming you have a tire with very stiff sidewall. The stiff sidewall will allow the car to take corners faster because there is less body roll/weight transfer. Without an appropriate increase in traction, car will slide sideways. It won't body-roll, but it will slide sideways as the tire's traction cannot hold the centripetal force. In other words, stiff sidewall is useless if tire does not have appropriate increase in traction.
2. OTOH, assuming you have a tire with superior traction, but its sidewall soft. When this car speeds into a corner, the soft sidewall causes car to body-roll, limiting cornering speed. Even though the tire has superior traction, this traction is never "tested" because max speed in corners is limited by body rolls. In other words, superior traction is wasted if tire sidewall cannot support against weight transfer/body roll.

I think this should be my final thought on sidewall stiffness as I have this feeling it's driving people away from this thread . I promise  that the discussion so far *is* quite relevant to the Michelin Pilot Sport versus Pirelli Corsa comparison. Seasoned veterans among you probably already know what I am leading to, whether number 1 or number 2 above is the Michelin Pilot Super Sport, strictly from a performance standpoint. No doubt, it is the more comfortable and more quiet tire. A much better daily driver's tire.
  

 

 I find it very interesting to read your above ideas.

The concept of tire/suspension dependancy seems very relevant. For example, I can still recall that - changing the Pirelli Corsa for Michelin Sport Cup + tires on my former GT2 Mk1 - I was a bit disappointed as the lap times did not quite improve. Somehow, the Corsa did seem to suit the suspension setup better. My theory then was that the original Cup (i.e. not the "+" version which is now only available) was a nice fit with the GT2 standard suspension but the "+" version was not. In contrast, the "+" tires on the GT2 Mk2 work very well.

ADias:

Did I miss something? Where are your observations on the Michelin PSS?

 

My car car is needing new tires and the new MSS are an options. This thread is very interesting but contratry to what title sugest, there´s no MSS observations here

J.Seven

Markus thanks for your always interesting comments. I appreciate that you did what I would consider to be the bottom line of tire testing (or *any* component testing for that matter, ecu, exhaust, etc.): lap time measurement with device under test being the only variable. At least from pure performance stand point, this is critical.

Adias and J. Seven, see below. I was merely stalling for time. In addition, my evaluation makes more sense if we first agree about the importance of sidewall stiffness :-), so I wanted to spend some time discussing that first.

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Regards,
Can
997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic "Stage 2" ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Custom Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )

First, please note that I am comparing new Super Sport to old PS2; old tires always are noisier and stiffer, so this is one weakness of my comparison. Second I don't have the resources to do the ultimate test: drive car back to back on track, with the tire being the only variable. Third, my evaluation is more or less ...  "subjective comparative analysis" in nature - grin. As such, the smaller the difference, the less trustworthy my opinions would be. That is, I am very confident of the difference between PS2 and Pirelli Corsa (it hits you in the face - "once in your life, try R comp"), but much less so about the difference between PS2 and Super Sport. Lastly, as mentioned, I don't claim to be an expert, just a very compulsive driver , so please take this "review" with a grain of salt.

At any rate, in comparison to Pilot Sport 2: WRT to road noise, ride comfort, handling feel, and traction, the Super Sport feels much closer to the Pilot Sport 2 than to the Pirelli R comp. In other words, it might be the best street tire in the world, but is still very much a street tire. Noise level is similar between the PS2 and Super Sport; ride comfort is also very similar. In a blind test, I might not be able to tell the difference.
If there is any difference in tire stiffness, I would say that the Super Sport feels a tad firmer than PS2. But this difference, if true, is small.
From a performance stand point, the Super Sport has been tested to beat other street tires on the track, but IMHO don't look for it to beat R comp/"cup" tire. That is not its mission in life.

I believe the improvement in cornering speed from PS2 to Super Sport is due more to improved traction, than to stiffer sidewall. So far, I have tested traction by taking two curves at the limit, one is a 38 mph curve and the other 60 mph (US street legal value). What I do is drive faster each time until my hair stands up (kidding), and note the speed. I have not had time to test the tire in my favorite Los Angeles twisties yet. Anyway, from this very crude test , I am impressed with the Super Sport's traction prowess. As I push my Turbo with Super Sport more and more to the edge, I am limited by the car's body roll, and not by any break in traction. The PS2 at the same speed would feel like it's starting to slide, the Super Sport does not. Traction in corners of the Super Sport is *very* impressive, but the softness of the sidewall IMHO will be the cause of its limitation at the track. I don't doubt Michelin's claim of its improved track time, but I do have some reservation about how significant this improvement would be, at least in amateurs' hands.
I am very happy with the PSS and think this has to be the street tire to beat for the 911 for now. The tire has been tested and/or demo'ed with Porsche Turbo, C2S, etc., so in this case the lack of N rating does not mean much and I would definitely take this tire over PS2, even though it has some avoir-du-pois problem. (Despite of Michelin's claim the Super Sport is heavier than PS2 - I'll post the data later.) As a bonus the cost is unbelievably low, and tread wear rating is much improved.

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Regards,
Can
997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic "Stage 2" ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Custom Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )

I agree with you that tire characteristics and suspension go hand-in-hand, but you lost me when you affirm that stiff sidewall is paramount. It depends on the suspension, doesn't it?

If you want stiff sidewalls... try runflats. Those have stiff sidewalls. Michelin makes a series of PS2 runflats.

At any rate, you confirm what many said before, the MPSS is a better tire than the PS2. Of course it  doe not match the grip level of the R-comp (nobody claimed that), and I bet it has nothing to do with sidewall stiffness.

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_________________________________________________________________ 

"Dream as impractical, irrational and unnecessary as that may be... Here's to the Dreamers!" -- Porsche AG.

cannga thanks for your informative report on the MSS, I might go with this tires seems to be the best option on the market right now.

J.Seven

 I also need new tires. I checked at my tyre place , but they do not have the MSS in N1 . I believe it is not on the market yet. So are you all just getting the normal one ? 

And the old MPS is not available anymore . ( at least over here ) 

So the other choices are Bridgestone  RE 050 or Pirelli P Zero....

I had the Bridg on my former 997.1 C4S . I might go back to that one ....

 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

Gnil:

 I also need new tires. I checked at my tyre place , but they do not have the MSS in N1 . I believe it is not on the market yet. So are you all just getting the normal one ? 

And the old MPS is not available anymore . ( at least over here ) 

So the other choices are Bridgestone  RE 050 or Pirelli P Zero....

I had the Bridg on my former 997.1 C4S . I might go back to that one ....

 Michelin PSS are indeed not homologated for Porsches.

I think they will be for the 991 and subsequently, hopefully for the 997 range. In the meantime, it's a risk  people should be willing to take vis a vis the fact they are not N rated (which should be fine because they effectively replace the Pilot Sport) but also with their insurance company in case of a serious accident.

It's a risk I am taking on the Carrera GT.

Futch:

It's a risk I am taking on the Carrera GT.

 

 There don't seem to be any more OEM tires available in the US for the Carrera GT - at least according to my Porsche dealer when asked a month ago.

That's one thing that upsets me about Porsche low production cars with unusual wheel sizes.  It's great for the first year or two until the original tire manufacturer loses interest, then it's a real PIA 

Mike

2005 Carrera GT + 2008 Tesla Roadster +2010 Panamera Turbo + 2001 BMW Z8 + 1972 BMW 3.0 CSi +2009 Bentley Arnage T

 Did I read that the MSS are considerably cheaper than the P Zero's and Bridgestone's?

W8MM:

There don't seem to be any more OEM tires available in the US for the Carrera GT - at least according to my Porsche dealer when asked a month ago.

That's one thing that upsets me about Porsche low production cars with unusual wheel sizes.  It's great for the first year or two until the original tire manufacturer loses interest, then it's a real PIA 

Mike, these are not the ones you're looking for? Tirerack CGT Tire Search
I almost feel sorry for your situation until I look at your garage signature. "Let him suffer."  Kidding - I am not *that* mean.

Actually the car I would like to race in your garage is the Tesla - forget that CGT. I love the steering feel of the Tesla - so direct, like it's connected to your brain - and think it must be a load of fun in tight twisty road. Race you for a bottle of wine? (To drink after I, or maybe you, get home of course.)

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Regards,
Can
997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic "Stage 2" ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Custom Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )

Futch:

 Michelin PSS are indeed not homologated for Porsches.

I think they will be for the 991 and subsequently, hopefully for the 997 range. In the meantime, it's a risk  people should be willing to take vis a vis the fact they are not N rated (which should be fine because they effectively replace the Pilot Sport) but also with their insurance company in case of a serious accident.

It's a risk I am taking on the Carrera GT.

 

Hi Futch,

Very interesting. Recently, participating in a heated (as usual when N is involved!) discussion of the merits of N, I was shocked to find out that in Europe non-N usage could be cause for insurance, or warranty, denial. Is this 100% true/proven? There *has* been a known case of denial?

In the US, to the best of my knowledge there has not been a single case - or it would be all over the various forums. Our lawyers would have a field day if this thought is even entertained, let alone practiced. Nick/Easy, any comment? Would the following picture be of any value in court?

--

Regards,
Can
997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic "Stage 2" ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Custom Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )

Gnil:

 I also need new tires. I checked at my tyre place , but they do not have the MSS in N1 . I believe it is not on the market yet. So are you all just getting the normal one ? 

And the old MPS is not available anymore . ( at least over here ) 

So the other choices are Bridgestone  RE 050 or Pirelli P Zero....

I had the Bridg on my former 997.1 C4S . I might go back to that one ....

Gnil, see Futch's response above. Super Sport is not N rated yet, not until 991 comes out.
Per my tire dealer, once 991 is here, 20 inch Super Sport will be N rated. They are not sure yet whether the 19" will be N rated, but assuming that non S 991 will still use 19", I don't see a reason why not. Outside, of insurance/warranty denial issue (really?!), there shouldn't be any concern - the tire was developed/tested using Porsche's. PS2 will be phased out, except for a few sizes, so it's not like you will have a choice.

Not a topic for this thread - I don't want to open a can of worm - but I can't help it :  this issue makes me realize how "artificial" the N system is and understand why the topic could spark such fiery debates. The Super Sport  is not even optimized for 997, and yet the N will assure a stamp of approval. And then, there is the issue of different N's, N1, N2, etc., that we are forced to use (old cars are forced to use new N's, whatever that's available, etc.), discussed a while ago on this forum.

Nick, pricing goes approximately like this: Michelin PS2 $2000, Pirelli $1500-1600, Super Sport and Bridgestone $1300-1400, and then others even cheaper. So Super Sport is not the cheapest, it's just down where the "common people"  used to be.

--

Regards,
Can
997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic "Stage 2" ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Custom Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )

cannga:

W8MM:

There don't seem to be any more OEM tires available in the US for the Carrera GT - at least according to my Porsche dealer when asked a month ago.

That's one thing that upsets me about Porsche low production cars with unusual wheel sizes.  It's great for the first year or two until the original tire manufacturer loses interest, then it's a real PIA 

Mike, these are not the ones you're looking for? Tirerack CGT Tire Search
I almost feel sorry for your situation until I look at your garage signature. "Let him suffer." Kidding - I am not *that* mean.

cannga,

The last time I asked about the Pirelli tires for the CGT, I found that they were all many years old and were stored in a warehouse in a very hot southern state and were likely to be more like hockey pucks than a freshly molded tire.

Go ahead and cry right along with me 

Mike

2005 Carrera GT + 2008 Tesla Roadster +2010 Panamera Turbo + 2001 BMW Z8 + 1972 BMW 3.0 CSi +2009 Bentley Arnage T

cannga:

Futch:

 Michelin PSS are indeed not homologated for Porsches.

I think they will be for the 991 and subsequently, hopefully for the 997 range. In the meantime, it's a risk  people should be willing to take vis a vis the fact they are not N rated (which should be fine because they effectively replace the Pilot Sport) but also with their insurance company in case of a serious accident.

It's a risk I am taking on the Carrera GT.

 

Hi Futch,

Very interesting. Recently, participating in a heated (as usual when N is involved!) discussion of the merits of N, I was shocked to find out that in Europe non-N usage could be cause for insurance, or warranty, denial. Is this 100% true/proven? There *has* been a known case of denial?

In the US, to the best of my knowledge there has not been a single case - or it would be all over the various forums. Our lawyers would have a field day if this thought is even entertained, let alone practiced. Nick/Easy, any comment? Would the following picture be of any value in court?

--

Regards,
Can
997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic "Stage 2" ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Custom Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )

This is the great paradox!
 

On the one hand, Michelin introduces the PSS on several cars including Porsche 911s with their rear bias, on the other hand, they are not N-rated meaning not homologated by Porsche.

Insurance wise, it is in issue, at least in Europe if the accident involved injuries or death. In which case the insurance company will call in on an expert to analyse the accident, when the latter discovers you're driving on tyres that are not homologated for the model, you're cooked.

Performance wise, if they're good enough for Michelin on a 911, that's good enough for me, having said that, I know Porsche and Michelin work hand in hand to develop tyres and throughout the model life.

N2 means it's the third version of the tyre available for the model. N0 being the first version.

For the Carrera GT, the Pilot Sport tyres are N2, does that mean that Porsche and Michelin have released two updated version of the tyre since 2004? It would seem so.

On Boxsters, PS are now N4! On the 997, it's N2.

So expect N0 Michelin Supersport to show up on the 991, which, hopefully will be retrofitable on the 997 range.

In the meantime, back to the GT, I am content knowing I am driving a car that Michelin developed for a bunch of cars, including the GT, but didn't work specifically with Porsche on that one. That's my understanding of the N rating.

Actually for what's it's worth, the PSS is homologated for the 599 GTO, which should raise some quesitons for CGT owners, because the weight distribution is totally different, hence different loads and wear on the tyre under hard driving.

Isn't the N-rating only relevant for Porsche's 911-models, with their peculiar weight distribution? I would guess there's no need for specially Porsche-homologated tyres on models where the weight distribution isn't that different from other mid-engined cars? (i.e. Cayman, Boxster and CGT)

Porker:

Isn't the N-rating only relevant for Porsche's 911-models, with their peculiar weight distribution? I would guess there's no need for specially Porsche-homologated tyres on models where the weight distribution isn't that different from other mid-engined cars? (i.e. Cayman, Boxster and CGT)

You would think so.

The car nerd in me has a new mission.

Clermont Ferrand is only 3h away by car, I shall find out!!!!

W8MM:

cannga:

W8MM:

There don't seem to be any more OEM tires available in the US for the Carrera GT - at least according to my Porsche dealer when asked a month ago.

That's one thing that upsets me about Porsche low production cars with unusual wheel sizes.  It's great for the first year or two until the original tire manufacturer loses interest, then it's a real PIA 

Mike, these are not the ones you're looking for? Tirerack CGT Tire Search
I almost feel sorry for your situation until I look at your garage signature. "Let him suffer." Kidding - I am not *that* mean.

cannga,

The last time I asked about the Pirelli tires for the CGT, I found that they were all many years old and were stored in a warehouse in a very hot southern state and were likely to be more like hockey pucks than a freshly molded tire.

Go ahead and cry right along with me 

I have this business idea - let me know what you think. ***Tire cooler***. That's right. Normal people have wine cooler, Porsche fanatics have "tire cooler."
The more serious tire connoisseurs could of course upgrade to the next level, fully temp controlled "tire cellar,"  designed and constructed to specs.

You know those nutty CGT owners; they'll pay. 

--
 

Regards,
Can
997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic "Stage 2" ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Custom Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )

cannga:

I have this business idea - let me know what you think. ***Tire cooler***. That's right. Normal people have wine cooler, Porsche fanatics have "tire cooler."
The more serious tire connoisseurs could of course upgrade to the next level, fully temp controlled "tire cellar,"  designed and constructed to specs.

You know those nutty CGT owners; they'll pay. 

Mike

2005 Carrera GT + 2008 Tesla Roadster +2010 Panamera Turbo + 2001 BMW Z8 + 1972 BMW 3.0 CSi +2009 Bentley Arnage T

In motorsports, if I could make any generalization, it would probably be about weight.  "Weight is the enemy of goodness"? Weight means weight transfer, and it means momentum; neither of which is good, or *always* good, for a sports car. The idea of lightness is king is particularly important where the weight is unsprung and rotational force is involved. In other words, better to gain weight at the frame than at the wheel, and better at the wheel than at the tire (angular momentum is proportional to radius - tire is the worst place for you to gain weight as it is furtherst from the center of the wheel).
Anyway, weight is where I have a bone to pick with the Super Sports. I will leave it up to you to decide how much is bad, and I have a couple more points to discuss, but for now, here is my informal tire weight ranking (it was a rainy day ). The list is courtesy of Tire Rack's Tires for Porsche 997 Turbo 235/35-19 front, 305/30-19 rear, pls correct any mistake as needed. The number in bold are the weights of one front plus one rear tire.

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Regards,
Can
997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic "Stage 2" ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Custom Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )

Futch:

Porker:

Isn't the N-rating only relevant for Porsche's 911-models, with their peculiar weight distribution? I would guess there's no need for specially Porsche-homologated tyres on models where the weight distribution isn't that different from other mid-engined cars? (i.e. Cayman, Boxster and CGT)

You would think so.

If I am not mistaken there is a difference between the official homologation for a tire and the homologation of N-rated versions from Porsche themselves. The N-rating should not be mandatory, adhering to the official homologated tires and rims would be.

I am just amazed that Porsche or Michelin issue some sort of clearance vaiver for different tire models or dimensions if the original one is not further developed.

Futch:.

when the latter discovers you're driving on tyres that are not homologated for the model, you're cooked.

Do you have any evidence for this ?

 How has "homologation" got anything to do with it ? think about the millions of other cars who go to Quick Fit and get the cheapest tyres slapped on, as long as they are BS/ISO/TUV approved tyres in the correct sizes with correct load rating and correct pressures the insurance can do nothing, the Porsche N rating has nothing to do with the insurance companies....

2009 997 GT2

TB993tt:

Futch:.

when the latter discovers you're driving on tyres that are not homologated for the model, you're cooked.

 

Do you have any evidence for this ?

 How has "homologation" got anything to do with it ? think about the millions of other cars who go to Quick Fit and get the cheapest tyres slapped on, as long as they are BS/ISO/TUV approved tyres in the correct sizes with correct load rating and correct pressures the insurance can do nothing, the Porsche N rating has nothing to do with the insurance companies....

 No evidence and I hope I am wrong, because it is outrageous.

It is my insurance company that told me that, I should check you are right.

Thing is, if injuries or worse, death, are involved, insurer will hire an expert to analyse the whole case, that's for sure.