Crown

^ I think the electro-mechanical power steering helps improve fuel economy and better application of stop-start function... 

Porker:

Why change if it's not broken, or even better why change what's being praised...

But, if the upsides outweigh the downsides, I'm all for!

If engineers would think that way, we would still ride a horse (well, not that there isn't a horse on Porsche's decal). 

Technology advances and I'm pretty sure that in a way or another, this has or will have something to do with weight saving and cost too but I really don't care to be honest.

Only thing I don't like compromised is...safety.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Porker:

Can anyone elaborate on why they opted for an electrical power steering assistance rather than the hydraulic system they had in the 997? It was one of the driving traits 997's were praised for, what clear advantage has an electrical power steering as to make it worthwhile risking putting that praised characteristic on the line?

An electrical powersteering is only providing assistance once you turn the wheel into a certain direction. In a hydraulical power assistance the servooil is circulating continuously and only applied when turning the wheel by opening the corresponding valve. The electrical steering consumes less power and hence less fuel. On top of that, the electrical steering´s mapping can be altered to particular dynamical settings and driving situations.

In future scenarios electrical steerings will be more frequently incorporated to assist the driver in emergency manouvres, self-parking the car or, in combination with adaptive cruisecontrol, keeping the car in the particular lane.

Most electrical steerings have had an artificial feel but this should´ve more been a matter of development progress, just as the incorporation of runflat tires demanded a recalibration of the suspension.

Here's one in white :)

Special thanks to ResB

2008 Range Rover Sport Supercharged

2007 997 GT3

2006 Mercedes G500

1993 964 Turbo (Sold)

Ferdie:

Porker:

Can anyone elaborate on why they opted for an electrical power steering assistance rather than the hydraulic system they had in the 997? It was one of the driving traits 997's were praised for, what clear advantage has an electrical power steering as to make it worthwhile risking putting that praised characteristic on the line?

An electrical powersteering is only providing assistance once you turn the wheel into a certain direction. In a hydraulical power assistance the servooil is circulating continuously and only applied when turning the wheel by opening the corresponding valve. The electrical steering consumes less power and hence less fuel. On top of that, the electrical steering´s mapping can be altered to particular dynamical settings and driving situations.

In future scenarios electrical steerings will be more frequently incorporated to assist the driver in emergency manouvres, self-parking the car or, in combination with adaptive cruisecontrol, keeping the car in the particular lane.

Most electrical steerings have had an artificial feel but this should´ve more been a matter of development progress, just as the incorporation of runflat tires demanded a recalibration of the suspension.

Thanks Ferdie!

Very curious to see if they nailed it with their system. Is there presently an example of an electrical powersteering that combines its inherent advantages with the steering feel of a hydraulic system?

The reason why I'm so worried about it is my very negative experience with similar systems on sporty Audi's and BMW's and my very postitive experience with 997 steering feel.

 Well I've read through 10 pages of comments, agree with some and disliked others. But overall I think  Porsche did a good job as an evolution, I would've liked to see maybe a more dramatic change to the design but I can't complain. I like the back a lot, the front is ok but I dislike the weird lights above the intakes, way to set themselves up for a facelift. The engine not being visible thing I don't really care about. Hate the lettering on the back.

Overall, good. Doesn't make your heart skip a beat by just looking at it but its a 911 alright. Personally I've always liked the look of the GTs and Turbo versions better than the clean look of the bare Carrera shape so I'm very much looking forward to that and think it'll be a great generation of 911.

PS: Thanks Rossi !

Thats how rear logo should look like IMHO

2008 Range Rover Sport Supercharged

2007 997 GT3

2006 Mercedes G500

1993 964 Turbo (Sold)

RC:

 a928:

.....Come on..your loosing every sense of neutrality here...if youre afraid to agree that even the 991 has some flaws..then..becomes clear by whom you are paid..

 

If you know somebody at Porsche who wants to pay me (or just provide a nice test car for my weekends ), feel free to tell him to contact me, I gladly accept any interesting offer.  

To be serious: Rennteam is a forum like no other on the internet. Do you know why ? Because all of us, the Admins and the Moderators, have real life jobs and none of these jobs is connected to the car industry or to Porsche. Yes, we even pay our bills ourselves, the crappy Google Ads advertisement barely covers the server cost and we already had to switch servers twice because of the huge traffic and usage load. None of us gets paid by anybody, we put our private money and time (which for most of us equals a lot of money considering our high profile jobs) into it and sometimes we even get slapped into the face but new users for our commitment to the community, which is a shame.

Even the forum software is unique, the programmer programmed it for us as a pro bono work and we really appreciate it because it gets better and better every day.

The best part however are our users: Many of our users are unique because they are not some Playstation kids arguing about some cars they never drove but real owners who usually not only own a Porsche but two or three or even other sports cars. Many of the users here are serious people with serious jobs and this is why I think this place is unique. Even follow the non-car related discussions and you can actually learn how people who actually have different political or even cultural views, can find a common ground and discuss even the most passionate topics in a very civilized way. This is why I love this forum.

Yes, I felt a little bit offended by your comment but I give you the benefit of doubt because you are new here. 

To make it short: I am 46 years old, I'm a professional in the medical/pharmaceutical field, I'm married and I have two kids. Money is tight (for somebody who loves high performance sports cars not really a good thing) but I still enjoy driving a Porsche and of course this forum. I am not paid by anybody, unless you want to volunteer. 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

BlackOctober:

Thats how rear logo should look like IMHO

 This looks so much better! I hope Porsche will listen to us an for MY2013 they'll take off some of those tacky badges.

RC:

@a928

I forgot to ask you: Why is your user name a928 ? 

I'm also curious about what car(s) you are currently driving because I'm not sure I understood that very clearly from your posts. Thank you.

Here is the answer
 

a928:

Carrageous:

By the way, what do you drive?

I drive what you can see in my profile picture . 997 GT3  2008 (but almost sold) - to be replaced with  997 GT3 3.8L (awaiting some modifactions) or

997 GT2  (also awaiting some modifications) ....

Ah, I have 4 other cars too...

And, of the other 4 cars, one is apparently a 356 and the other is an 'oldtimer'.

997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red

RC:

 a928:

.....Come on..your loosing every sense of neutrality here...if youre afraid to agree that even the 991 has some flaws..then..becomes clear by whom you are paid..

 

If you know somebody at Porsche who wants to pay me (or just provide a nice test car for my weekends ), feel free to tell him to contact me, I gladly accept any interesting offer.  

To be serious: Rennteam is a forum like no other on the internet. Do you know why ? Because all of us, the Admins and the Moderators, have real life jobs and none of these jobs is connected to the car industry or to Porsche. Yes, we even pay our bills ourselves, the crappy Google Ads advertisement barely covers the server cost and we already had to switch servers twice because of the huge traffic and usage load. None of us gets paid by anybody, we put our private money and time (which for most of us equals a lot of money considering our high profile jobs) into it and sometimes we even get slapped into the face but new users for our commitment to the community, which is a shame.

Even the forum software is unique, the programmer programmed it for us as a pro bono work and we really appreciate it because it gets better and better every day.

The best part however are our users: Many of our users are unique because they are not some Playstation kids arguing about some cars they never drove but real owners who usually not only own a Porsche but two or three or even other sports cars. Many of the users here are serious people with serious jobs and this is why I think this place is unique. Even follow the non-car related discussions and you can actually learn how people who actually have different political or even cultural views, can find a common ground and discuss even the most passionate topics in a very civilized way. This is why I love this forum.

Yes, I felt a little bit offended by your comment but I give you the benefit of doubt because you are new here. 

To make it short: I am 46 years old, I'm a professional in the medical/pharmaceutical field, I'm married and I have two kids. Money is tight (for somebody who loves high performance sports cars not really a good thing) but I still enjoy driving a Porsche and of course this forum. I am not paid by anybody, unless you want to volunteer. 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Hello Moderator,

First, I would like to congratulate you and your moderators for this forum...organising this in spare and private time is cetrtainly not easy..and my deepest appreciation and respect for this goes to you and your supporters for allowing Porsche friends like us to meet.

I wouldnt have the time and energy to do this..as I have more or less 2 jobs..I work more or less every day too..monday - friday (sometimes weekend too) for my normal -  I would say high profile job too. On the weekends I have another work..

I would love to check the other threads on politics and other subjects..havent had the time. What I drive:

997 GT3, .+ other cars...but I will not make everything that public here for the moment. Nevertheless, it seems we cant agree on the 991..so..we are just a different in this regard...alhough Im still a bit suprised about a few things..but OK...

take care & I will send you an email,

IMO a more sensible approach would be to wait until the 991 GT3 comes out and then compare the 991 GT3 against the 997 GT3.

That way, one is comparing apples with apples not apples with oranges

997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red

 a928, in short, we all have, and are entitled to our own opinions, but many of us just don't think its right to so strongly judge and criticize the 991 when the only people who have driven the production version work in Zuffenhausen. And they claim its the greatest 911 in history, and I'm sure they know what they're talking about more than any of us here.

I think once production gets under way, and new models start to come out, you'll eventually realise the 991 isn't the death of the 911, and it isn't a total piece of crap. One last remark about the engine, when has Porsche been one to brag about the engine like Ferrari? Even Corvette felt the need to brag by putting a stupid piece of clear plastic on the hood of the ZR1. And when Porsche had the chance to brag about the engine on the Carrera GT, they opted for a unique metal mesh cover instead. Same story with the 918 (though we aren't "allowed" to see under the engine bay yet). 

My best advice to you, relax. All we know is the horsepower figures, ring times (they aren't even official!), the new dimensions, that it has electro steering, and what it will look like. When Porsche engineers released all of this info to the press they said there is MUCH, MUCH more to be said about the 991, and that these things were only the tip of the ice berg.

Porker:

Is there presently an example of an electrical powersteering that combines its inherent advantages with the steering feel of a hydraulic system?

The reason why I'm so worried about it is my very negative experience with similar systems on sporty Audi's and BMW's and my very postitive experience with 997 steering feel.

Most EPS, as you note, are terrible.  Some are pretty good though.  The Mazda RX-8 has pretty nice steering.  Also, I believe that all the GT3 racecars (Cup, RSR, etc.) use EPS.  I've never driven one, but I bet they're pretty good.
 

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs).  Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550 Maranello

Just look at the 997 again, the 991 makes that look dated, I cant believe that! Time will tell and right now I am in love with the 991, I will enjoy my 458 now until the 991 GT3! The 458 is great, but I dont feel comfortable to use the 458 everyday.

Grant:

Porker:

Is there presently an example of an electrical powersteering that combines its inherent advantages with the steering feel of a hydraulic system?

The reason why I'm so worried about it is my very negative experience with similar systems on sporty Audi's and BMW's and my very postitive experience with 997 steering feel.

Most EPS, as you note, are terrible.  Some are pretty good though.  The Mazda RX-8 has pretty nice steering.  Also, I believe that all the GT3 racecars (Cup, RSR, etc.) use EPS.  I've never driven one, but I bet they're pretty good.
 

 And Daytona Prototypes use EPS as well. From what that one guy on planet 9 said, he thinks steering feel is compromised at lower speeds, but the harder you push, the more feel you get. I don't think Porsche will screw this one up though.

Would I be correct in suggesting that the flat-six is "upside down"?  So actually, the best view of a Porsche engine (if you like looking at engines - and I admit that I do!) would be from underneath.  So maybe it would be cool if they thought about the aesthetics viewed from underneath, as long as it didn't detract from function, and didn't add anything to cost.  A bit of chrome, a bit of red paint etc...

Then we could all meet for coffee on Sunday mornings and gaze under eachothers' cars with those mirror sticks that the military use to check for bombs...

On another thread running in this thread,some of the "friendly and honest advice" poor old a928 is a tad patronising, which is only fueling a very silly exchange.  If I read another bleedin' obvious comment along the lines of "we're all entitled to our own opinion" I'm going to throw up.

I'm off to squeeze under my S4.  Dammit, it looks horrible from here!  Can't wait for my shiny engine-blocked GTS to arrive!

BTW, I love all the 911's since forever.  And the Singer is my favourite - taking oldie looks and throwing a modern suspension and engine into it - there I'm sure we'll all agree we'd sell our children for one!

Isn't it time you got yourself a !waytag?   www.waytag.com

2. Still - your - that excuse cannot count: why are Audi R8, Gallardo, 458, Maserati etc are so beautiful to look at their engines..but in a 911 you cant see anything anynmore? what kind of logic is this???. Even the engine of a Golf GTI for 30000$ looks better..than seing nothing 

I would like to contribute some money to the 'International Initiative To Give a928 A Brain'. This good cause needs all the funding it can have.

Now please take a look at the 'beautiful' engine of the R8:

Plenty of neat heat shields, soundproofing and carbon covers but don't tell me you see a 'beautiful' engine? 

Nice looking engines are a thing from the past, get over it and stop littering this tread with your dumb posts. You don't like the 991, great, we know by now. Don't buy one, problem fixed. Let's move along!

Morgan Aero 8

That's a great looking engine!  Of course I'm entitled to my own opinion...  Oh God, I just said that!  I'm going to throw up!

BTW - was that taken from underneath?

Isn't it time you got yourself a !waytag?   www.waytag.com

a928,

I've been hesitant to voice my opinion a little, but I'd like to offer it to you.  In your past posts, I've heard you say the following (in some cases multiple times):

   ...you owe me more information...

   ...you owe me more pictures...

   ...you have to reply to my question, or you prove my point...

   ...you have to agree with my criticisms or you are not being honest...

These sentiments are a tad immature and silly, and though generally very common on other forums (and far worse), are pretty uncommon here.

Truth is, this site is pretty well-rounded and honest, and deserves a better level of discussion, especially from newer members.  Many here have fairly subjective opinions, and interesting culturally based perspectives, but I think that what makes it fun, and we generally all respect each other too.

Thank you!

 More of it...

Just stunning!

spudgun:

2. Still - your - that excuse cannot count: why are Audi R8, Gallardo, 458, Maserati etc are so beautiful to look at their engines..but in a 911 you cant see anything anynmore? what kind of logic is this???. Even the engine of a Golf GTI for 30000$ looks better..than seing nothing 

I would like to contribute some money to the 'International Initiative To Give a928 A Brain'. This good cause needs all the funding it can have.

Now please take a look at the 'beautiful' engine of the R8:

Plenty of neat heat shields, soundproofing and carbon covers but don't tell me you see a 'beautiful' engine? 

Nice looking engines are a thing from the past, get over it and stop littering this tread with your dumb posts. You don't like the 991, great, we know by now. Don't buy one, problem fixed. Let's move along!

 Agreed, all I see is a bunch of CF (but that is expected from a car of that caliber) and a whole lot of plastic! The Carrera GT has one of the most beautiful modern engines. I love how you can see so much of the chassis, and how everything is purely functional.

spudgun:

You don't like the 991, great, we know by now. Don't buy one, problem fixed. Let's move along!

Exactly

--

997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red

dxpetrov:

 More of it...

Just stunning!

Even the C2 looks that great....
love it!

 Do these pictures confirm that the Carrera S has wider hips than the Carrera?

^i dont think so

That is better than I could have dreamed.. The red one is AMAZING!!! stunning 911.

indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 

 With every new picture the 991 looks better and better! Check these out! What a properly sexy car!

Where can I get the additional new pictures in high res?

2008 Range Rover Sport Supercharged

2007 997 GT3

2006 Mercedes G500

1993 964 Turbo (Sold)

 I don't know. I'll email auto und motorsport for them. In the mean time here's another!