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Jun 9, 2011 9:56:04 PM
- easy_rider911
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Gauss
Re: 2012 Corvette ZR1 Runs the Nürburgring in 7:19.63
It's certainly quick - but I feel sorry for the driver - that car is a real handful to manage ... the steering was so imprecise ... the amount of mid-corner corrections he needed to do was unbelievable - it's like he had to force that car around the circuit. Where this car was so quick was on straight sections ....
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Jun 9, 2011 10:01:19 PM
- 355Spider
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Re: 2012 Corvette ZR1 Runs the Nürburgring in 7:19.63
Yeah it's definitely not the easiest car to drive fast. Neither is the Z06. I've had both and it takes skill and balls to drive them fast. They are thrilling but you have to give up something for the price, and I suppose precision and finesse is it. Check out the cornering at 180mph@7:22sec. Scary.
Re: 2012 Corvette ZR1 Runs the Nürburgring in 7:19.63
I think with a few better lines on some of the corners it could have gone quicker. Like Pflanzgarten for example. But what do I know. 
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Jun 9, 2011 11:02:39 PM
- Heist
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Re: 2012 Corvette ZR1 Runs the Nürburgring in 7:19.63
easy_rider911:
It's certainly quick - but I feel sorry for the driver - that car is a real handful to manage ... the steering was so imprecise ... the amount of mid-corner corrections he needed to do was unbelievable - it's like he had to force that car around the circuit. Where this car was so quick was on straight sections ....
Biggest complaint about the Vette. It's a beast of a car for the price you pay, however, the car requires an experienced hand if you want to push it.
Sort of a throwback to the "bite your head off if you get me a little wrong" super cars of the 80's and 90's.
Unless they changed since last I looked, the rear end doesn't even use an independent suspension. It has something called a transverse leaf spring.
Re: 2012 Corvette ZR1 Runs the Nürburgring in 7:19.63
The CGT and GT2 (formerly known as the widow maker) are easy to handle?
Give credit where it is due. For $100,000 the ZR1 will spank our $100,000, $120,000, $160,000, $200,000, $450,000 and $850,000 Porsche's. Yep, sometimes life is not fair.
BTW, how much faster would the time have been if a professional race driver drove the car. The driver was an engineer for Corvette!
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Re: 2012 Corvette ZR1 Runs the Nürburgring in 7:19.63
nberry: BTW, how much faster would the time have been if a professional race driver drove the car. The driver was an engineer for Corvette!
Why do you think those two things are mutually exclusive? Corvette development drivers are typically champion showroom stock drivers.
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Mike
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Re: 2012 Corvette ZR1 Runs the Nürburgring in 7:19.63
I friend of mine, good driver, had divers Porsche . He switched to Corvette ( for track se only ) , changed the suspensions and breaks , and he feels MUCH more confident, and is faster, then with the Porsche .
He says the Corvette is easier to handle when driving fast then a 911
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Re: 2012 Corvette ZR1 Runs the Nürburgring in 7:19.63
nberry:
Give credit where it is due. For $100,000 the ZR1 will spank our $100,000, $120,000, $160,000, $200,000, $450,000 and $850,000 Porsche's. Yep, sometimes life is not fair.
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and all other Road cars from Ferrari, Pagani, Lambos .... 
I like the 80´s telephone in the centre console in the video - fits perfect to the interior of the Vette. 
Respect to the Corvette-Team for the laptime.
Blueflame
Re: 2012 Corvette ZR1 Runs the Nürburgring in 7:19.63
Heist:Biggest complaint about the Vette. It's a beast of a car for the price you pay, however, the car requires an experienced hand if you want to push it.
Sort of a throwback to the "bite your head off if you get me a little wrong" super cars of the 80's and 90's.
Unless they changed since last I looked, the rear end doesn't even use an independent suspension. It has something called a transverse leaf spring.
Actually, the Corvette's suspension is independent front and rear, despite having a transverse leaf-spring front and rear: All wheels are on a short/long arm set up, without a connecting rod in between or something (a quick search online appears to indicate it's been like this for over 40 years).
Some people say the transverse leaf spring exhibits "cross-talk", because it's one piece, but many dispute it. Although not an expert by any stretch, I personally think the latter is true, seeing how the thing is double-bolted onto the undercarriage, I don't see how up and down movements on one side would affect the other... But that's just me :)
Hope this helps!
Geoff
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Jun 10, 2011 11:30:06 AM
- Porsche-Jeck
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Gnil
Re: 2012 Corvette ZR1 Runs the Nürburgring in 7:19.63
Gnil:
I friend of mine, good driver, had divers Porsche . He switched to Corvette ( for track se only ) , changed the suspensions and breaks , and he feels MUCH more confident, and is faster, then with the Porsche .
He says the Corvette is easier to handle when driving fast then a 911
Seems we have the same friends, Gnil - I heard exactly the same thing from two experienced track buddies, both switching from Porsche to Corvette. However one of them switched back to Porsche after two seasons with a Z06 due to reliability probs.
Anyway, the transaxle package certainly has it's advantages - for example trailbraking is much easier with the Corvette than with any 911.
@ Easy: maybe what you observed as mid corner correction is due to Jim Mero's trailbraking style ? Typically the steering motion then looks a bit more "edgy" compared to the round (slow-in, fast-out) Porsche cornering technique.
I just recently had an extensive discussion with one of the Corvette drivers at the 'Ring after playing a bit together He claimed that the Vette has better brakes than the Porsche which is nonsense of course What made him believe this is that he could close the gap to my car in some corners, which indeed had nothing to do with the brake performance but with the fact that it was much easier for him to brake deeply into the corner (comparably tricky with a 911). Though this advantage didn't help him a lot, because once we reached the corners' apex the traction of the GT3 out of the corner won and at the end of the day it's more important to take as much speed as possible onto the next straight than gaining a little bit at corner entry 
@ Nick: GM's Jim Mero is as much "just" an automotive engineer as Porsche's Marc Lieb 
Excellent lap and I'm even under the impression that he could have shaved off another couple of seconds I like the Corvettes - they are "honest" sportscars
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Jun 10, 2011 11:36:14 AM
- reginos
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Re: 2012 Corvette ZR1 Runs the Nürburgring in 7:19.63
I am aware many also race cars. My point was directed toward times that could have been posted by drivers like WR, HvS and others that spend their lives at the Ring.
Since you spend a lot of time at the track, have you considered buying the ZR1? Also, have you "encountered" one while at the track with your CGT and if so, your impressions.
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Jun 10, 2011 6:04:26 PM
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4trac
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Re: 2012 Corvette ZR1 Runs the Nürburgring in 7:19.63
Porsche-Jeck:
I like the Corvettes - they are "honest" sportscars
+1. Corvette has almost the same years of heritage as the 911 - and has also done more than most makers to consistently design light cars that avoid unnecessary complexity. Even the transverse leaf spring Heist refers to is now a composite part - lighter than steel coils, and the Z06 has innovative aluminium and composite construction.
All this with relatively minimal resources: if cash-strapped GM had provided the Corvette team with 1/10 of the engineering resources that Porsche has (plus maybe a spare Italian or two to re-design the interior) who knows what they could come up with?
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Re: 2012 Corvette ZR1 Runs the Nürburgring in 7:19.63
One has to realize that most manufacturers source parts from the very same suppliers, both groups are working and developing globally and hence benefit from the same developments as competitors from a different country or continent. One should also consider that, apart from Porsche I can recall only Apollo to be one of the German manufacturers that are competing for the fastest Nordschleife lap. Radical, Pagani as well as Chrysler, Chevrolet are going great lengths to test and develop their particular cars on the Nürburgring, not to forget Mercedes, Nissan and Ferrari for their efforts in recent years.
The difference, in my opinion, lies within the different philosophies, customer targets as well as the effort their engineers and designers (are allowed to) put in. I would love to see Chevrolet to present the Corvette with better interior, more conscientious build quality, a more refined ride and handling and without some of the crappy elements but then... it wouldn´t be a Corvette anymore.
Jun 10, 2011 6:51:34 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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Re: 2012 Corvette ZR1 Runs the Nürburgring in 7:19.63
Ferdie:The difference, in my opinion, lies within the different philosophies, customer targets as well as the effort their engineers and designers (are allowed to) put in. I would love to see Chevrolet to present the Corvette with better interior, more conscientious build quality, a more refined ride and handling and without some of the crappy elements but then... it wouldn´t be a Corvette anymore.
x2
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Jun 10, 2011 6:53:39 PM
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nberry
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Carlos from Spain
Jun 10, 2011 8:13:39 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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Re: 2012 Corvette ZR1 Runs the Nürburgring in 7:19.63
nberry:
Ferrari uses the magnetic suspension system developed by GM for its cars including the Corvette. So can we assume Ferrari does not have a "refined ride and handling"?
Only if you think "ride and handling" on a sportcar depends solely on the suspension's shocks, and not the chasis, engine type and placement, type of suspension configuration and setup, steering characteristics, weight distribution, transmission, differentials, etc.
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Jun 10, 2011 9:20:32 PM
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nberry
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Carlos from Spain
Re: 2012 Corvette ZR1 Runs the Nürburgring in 7:19.63
nberry:
Don't confuse all around performance with ride and handling. Suspension has a lot to do with these characteristics.
You are still missing the point , Nick.
Ride and handling do to a large degree depend on the suspension.
But Carlos' real point was that a suspension system is more than just the spring dampers, and the Delco magnetically controlled "suspension" you claim that the Corvette has in common with Ferraris is in fact just the damper.
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Jun 10, 2011 9:59:56 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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Re: 2012 Corvette ZR1 Runs the Nürburgring in 7:19.63
nberry:
Don't confuse all around performance with ride and handling. Suspension has a lot to do with these characteristics.
Every point I listed is related to handling, and the combination of all of them, in different quantity, result in the car's specific hgandling characteristics and behaviour... otherwise just changing the shock absorbers on a Hyundai cound make it handle like a Ferrari
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Re: 2012 Corvette ZR1 Runs the Nürburgring in 7:19.63
nberry:
Ferrari uses the magnetic suspension system developed by GM for its cars including the Corvette. So can we assume Ferrari does not have a "refined ride and handling"?
Nick,
you underline my above comment that the difference in these cars is not the technical component itself but what each manufacturer will extract out of it. As Fritz said, the magnaride system consists of the damper only and not the entire suspension system.
As an analogy, lobster is available in various countries nowadays but the difference is in the cook. Fifty years ago that would´ve been different as the ingredients were geographically limited as well.
Re: 2012 Corvette ZR1 Runs the Nürburgring in 7:19.63
The 599GTB has the magnetic suspension borrowed from GM. The exact suspension components in the Corvette are unknown to me. I take a macro view assuming the result is more important than the specific parts.
Look I owned a Corvette (not of recent vintage) which was heavily modified. It was raw and not sophisticated in performance as my Ferrari's and Porsche's. Nevertheless, it was a barrel of fun.
My concern is whenever a US or any other carmaker produces a product which exceed European car performance, rather than compliment all we hear is how unrefined and poor quality they are. Enough already!
Instead of criticizing, compliment and learn from them.
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Re: 2012 Corvette ZR1 Runs the Nürburgring in 7:19.63
Numbers arent everything for road use.
The Corvette ZR1s look killer on the street, especially in metallic grey or black.
But the seats are bad, the switches scream Pontiac Fiero and the steering wheel is too much a Camaro thing.
Basically everything you touch inside it is totally disappointing..... except the gas pedal.
Jun 11, 2011 3:46:23 AM
- JoeRockhead
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Re: 2012 Corvette ZR1 Runs the Nürburgring in 7:19.63
That car is grossly over-powered and/or under-handled. But, no BS electronics; it's just a front engined, rear driven ass kicker. If they could get all of that power to the ground and stop sliding in the corners it would be in the low teens easily.
Jun 11, 2011 9:20:28 AM
- fritz
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Re: 2012 Corvette ZR1 Runs the Nürburgring in 7:19.63
JoeRockhead:
That car is grossly over-powered and/or under-handled. But, no BS electronics; it's just a front engined, rear driven ass kicker. If they could get all of that power to the ground and stop sliding in the corners it would be in the low teens easily.
Sadly, it's the BS electronics which play a large part in enabling other brands to get all that power to the ground and stop sliding in the corners.
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fritz
Re: 2012 Corvette ZR1 Runs the Nürburgring in 7:19.63
reginos:
Porsche-Jeck:
I like the Corvettes - they are "honest" sportscars
Isn't the Mercedes SLS a German Corvette but much more expensive and perhaps better made?--
"Form follows function"
Coincidentally, there is a Corvette-SLS comparison in Autozeitung.
The SLS wins the (German magazine) comparison on points due mainly to better acceleration (to 200km/h measured), better consumption, more passenger space (but practically none for luggage), better quality finish and more safety features.
The ZR1 appears much superior in dynamic aspects like handling, slalom, steering and active safety.
Price difference in Germany €137K vs €187K 
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"Form follows function"
Re: 2012 Corvette ZR1 Runs the Nürburgring in 7:19.63
nberry:I
Since you spend a lot of time at the track, have you considered buying the ZR1? Also, have you "encountered" one while at the track with your CGT and if so, your impressions.
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Mike
2005 Carrera GT + 2008 Tesla Roadster +2010 Panamera Turbo + 2001 BMW Z8 + 1972 BMW 3.0 CSi +2009 Bentley Arnage T
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