Crown

cdixon:

PM me John if you need some Insurance ideas... I have been doing some research for my GT3 and found a company that will be able to help with the ring insurance...

 

 Would that be a German company (also willing to insure cars on a foreign / Luxembourg license plate)? 

Lukas:

reginos:

John H:

Best way to sum it up is the C2S was pretty much one-dimensional whilst the GTS is multi-dimensional and counting...by that I mean I'm waiting to play with sport plus..!

 

Sport Plus has an effect on PDK in Auto mode only. Otherwise the throttle map stays the same as in Sport mode, so if you use Sport Plus in manual mode there is no difference. One problem for road driving in Sport Plus Auto is that it goes down to 1st gear very easily which is unwanted in 99.99% of the cases.

There is absolutely a big difference even in Sport-Plus mode when you have it in manual. The gear-shifts are MUCH faster  in sport plus than in sport-mode. In sport-mode there is a noticable delay when shifting gears which is not the case in sport plus where the shifts are instant. For this reason I always drive in Sport Plus when in manual

 

I can't comment first hand as I haven't used Sport Plus...YET!

But the Driver's Manual agrees with DC and the above comments by stating...(quote)...

"In 'Sport Plus' mode, the PDK transmission changes to a shift program designed for driving on race circuits.  7th gear is not selected.  The gear-changing performance is enhanced significantly again compared with 'Sport' mode."

"Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."

She's a stunner John

Enjoy....

John H:

Lukas:

reginos:

John H:

Best way to sum it up is the C2S was pretty much one-dimensional whilst the GTS is multi-dimensional and counting...by that I mean I'm waiting to play with sport plus..!

 

Sport Plus has an effect on PDK in Auto mode only. Otherwise the throttle map stays the same as in Sport mode, so if you use Sport Plus in manual mode there is no difference. One problem for road driving in Sport Plus Auto is that it goes down to 1st gear very easily which is unwanted in 99.99% of the cases.

There is absolutely a big difference even in Sport-Plus mode when you have it in manual. The gear-shifts are MUCH faster  in sport plus than in sport-mode. In sport-mode there is a noticable delay when shifting gears which is not the case in sport plus where the shifts are instant. For this reason I always drive in Sport Plus when in manual

 

I can't comment first hand as I haven't used Sport Plus...YET!

But the Driver's Manual agrees with DC and the above comments by stating...(quote)...

"In 'Sport Plus' mode, the PDK transmission changes to a shift program designed for driving on race circuits.  7th gear is not selected.  The gear-changing performance is enhanced significantly again compared with 'Sport' mode."

 

 

You have to test Sport Plus during your next drive John . Just put it in manual mode and you'll feel the difference. You can still keep it below 4000rpm.

When on the topic I'm curious if there are any reports on engines that run worse in the long run if red-lining it from start. Then I don't mean to drive it like a maniac, but when the oil-temp is up to working-temperature and giving it some good piece of right foot now and then 
 

Current: 997.2 C2S Meteorgrey/Black - PDK, PSE, LSD, SportChrono, Nav, BOSE, etc.

Sold: 997.1 C2S Black/Black - PSE, Adaptives, PCCB, -20mm/LSD, Short-shifter, SportChrono, Nav, BOSE, etc.

Cant Porsche gather data to check one's run in habits if you make a early warranty claim?. Not sure about poor reliability claims due to red lining from the start of ownership though. Correct oil temp is an absolute must, obviously....

--
 

throt

"I didn't do it"

bobr:

She's a stunner John

Enjoy....

Thanks Bob...

"Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."

I doubt Porsche cares about us 'suffering' under the 4000 rpm recommendation during break in - I would expect they care much more about minimising the cost of potential warranty claims ...

RT Moderator - 997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm sports suspension/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection

I have a question please....

When I was informed that my GTS was ready for collection, my dealer said it would come with a full tank of fuel.  I immediately requested that it be filled with super-unleaded (98 RON/88 MON) and preferably Shell V-Power.

He said it was too late as it had already been filled with regular-unleaded 95 RON/85 MON -  that being the OPC's fuelling policy!!

He added that it wouldn't matter though because I would need several tankfuls during the break-in period, so I may as well save myself some expense during that process.

I realise that the engine's 'knock control' automatically adapts the ignition timing to the lower fuel grade, but I've always used the higher grade, in my previous car, to optimise performance and fuel consumption.

I've come to the point where my tank is down to one quarter full and my inclination is to now fill it up with 98 Ron.

What would you guys do - carry on with 95, during break-in, or revert to 98?

How long does it take for the engine to adapt between the lower and higher fuel grades?

All input would be gratefully received...

"Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."

Great car of yours Porsche-Jeck....color combo with wheels is better than the GTS any day anytime anyplace.

Black wheels  I do not get...any car needs jewels somewhere, and black wheels on a white car are a sad mistake... when it passes, one sees a 911 body with no wheels evident at all.

CanuckKiwi

John H:

What would you guys do - carry on with 95, during break-in, or revert to 98?

 

 
 

Hi John

The engine will run fine on 95 RON but power will be slightly down (not that you'd notice during running in) and consumption may also be marginally worse as the engine is set up for 98RON and the engine management will alter the timing away from optimum to prevent knocking. For what it's worth I always use 98 RON in mine. I would steer clear of supermarket fuels, always use premium brands such as BP, Esso or Shell. Supermarket fuels are cheaper for a reason - the fuel obviously comes from the same refineries but they don't have the additives that premium brands use. I'd rather use premium brand 95RON than supermarket 98 RON.

Interesting that the skin-a-turd mentality is't exclusive to Porsche Centre Bournemouth!

--
 

Porsche Cayman S PDK Aqua Blue / Ocean Blue  (November 10) : Toyota Yaris D4D (Oct 10) 

 I would go back to 98 

 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

Gnil:

 I would go back to 98 

Same here.
 

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

my thoughts exactly ! I doubt that "my" OPC in Germany would dare to put anything else than 98 into a new car just to avoid any sort of guarantee issues...Considering what the difference in price between 95 and 98 is - regardless where in the world each of us live, I mean, with such a company policy, it is like one would present to a client a dirty visiting card.... 

Carlos from Spain:
What a cheap OPC! you'd think that their policy would be what ever the freaking manual says. I would also go back to 98, its not only about detonation diferences, there is also lubricants and other additives in petrol that are generally better in 98 than in 95, so specially during the breakim I would use 98.

It's the same in Belgium, I work for Audi/VW/Porsche testcentre and all cars get filled up by the same pump, being 95 RON...

I have experienced the same with a BMW dealer, and thought at that time it had something to do with they only having one tank (and eventual norms).

Makes you wonder how they do proper maintenance / troubleshooting when refuelling is needed on a client's car...

Use 98 from now on would be my advice.

Stick 98 in it asap, John..

Agree with Carlos, a bit of pathetic penny pinching there..

throt

"I didn't do it"

KiwiCanuck:

Great car of yours Porsche-Jeck....color combo with wheels is better than the GTS any day anytime anyplace.

Black wheels  I do not get...any car needs jewels somewhere, and black wheels on a white car are a sad mistake... when it passes, one sees a 911 body with no wheels evident at all.

CanuckKiwi

Think your on the wrong thread, bud......

throt

"I didn't do it"

Carlos from Spain:
....  there is also lubricants and other additives in petrol that are generally better in 98 than in 95, so specially during the breakim I would use 98.

Which is precisely why I wouldn't use supermarket fuels! The additives in 95RON premium fuels would be far superior to those in even 98RON supermarket stuff.

Porsche Cayman S PDK Aqua Blue / Ocean Blue  (November 10) : Toyota Yaris D4D (Oct 10) 

There was a comparative test in the German magazine Auto Motor & Sport some years ago with various identical vehicles (mostly BMW and Mercedes) using  95RON or 98RON. They were comparing loss of power from the use of 95RON.

In the case of some models the difference in output was very small but in various BMWs the HP difference was as much as 8-10%! I presume high output engines like Porsche lose a lot too.

"Form follows function"

John, I think DC summed it up best in his first post on this thread  All I would add is that, if you're down to a quarter tank of fuel, I personally would just use it up then add 98 RON fuel from BP, Shell or Esso only. Knowing you like I do, it may always remain at the back of your mind if you don't  Like DC said, I would never fill up with any supermarket fuel or any 95RON. In continental Europe, I always stick to BP, Shell, Total or Aral. Satnavs are great for locating the right brand on your way

RT Moderator - 997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm sports suspension/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection

Yes reginos - Fifth Gear did a comparison some time back - and the power loss was much more noticeable with bigger, more high performance engines. There's little point buying an expensive sports car and then skimping on fuel grade. I think John H's OPC behaved cheaply.

RT Moderator - 997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm sports suspension/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection

I remember long ago I decided to do an experiment and pay close attention to the fuel consumption in my E36-M3 between 95 and 98 fuel. There was a difference in fuel consumtion difference of roughly 1l/100km, that was almost 10% difference. Funny thing is at that time 10% was about the price difference between the two (now a days is much more) so there wasn't even a saving by using 95.

Also, when storing petrol for the quad (they have a small tank and needed refill frecuently) if I used 95 and left it there for a while too long, you could see how it dirtied and would loose its properties, the filter would get dirty, etc. whereas that would not happen with 98RON because of its additives. I have always used 98RON ever since in my bikes, quads and cars (exept in cars that recomend 95ROM by manufacturer and are not left sitting for long).

And like Dreamcar says, always use good brand gas stations (Shell, Repsol, ect) since the additives I think is the important part because of what I mentioned above.

So I think that during the break in, it is specially important to use good fuel, not because of the performance it gives you since you are not going to be redlining the car out of every corner during the berak-in, but because if its quality and the special period that is the break in.

--

Carlos from Spain:
What a cheap OPC! you'd think that their policy would be what ever the freaking manual says. I would also go back to 98, its not only about detonation diferences, there is also lubricants and other additives in petrol that are generally better in 98 than in 95, so specially during the breakim I would use 98.

The dealer is an idiot (and yes, please, quote me by printing this out and showing it to him).

A real disgrace for any Porsche dealer but he doesn't seem to be alone.

My BMW dealer for example fills up only 10 l on new cars...filling up the new car completely costs too much money. I know that dealers have to look at their numbers but seriously, does he need to care about 100 EUR on a 120000 EUR car? Doesn't make much sense to me.

Regarding V-Power (Shell, 100 octane): Most 98 octane fuels from Shell, Aral and Esso have 100 octane or even more anyway, sometimes it may be 99 but always over 98. There was a test in a german car magazine once. V-Power had 102 octane or so but on non-turbo charged cars, more than 98 octane doesn't make much sense.

On turbo charged cars however, things may look different, depending on the engine software mapping/programming. Some manufacturers allow a slightly higher boost pressure with higher octane figures, most don't.

On tuned turbo charged cars, using V-Power actually makes sense, if not for safety reasons only since the mapping is usually at the limit (or even over it) of what the engine can actually "handle".

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

These responses are exactly what I was expecting and, as I said, with my C2S I always used 98 RON and almost always Shell V-Power.

Would still like to know how quickly the engine adapts between grades and also how the ignition timing copes with a mixture of 95 RON & 98 RON.?

"Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."

John H:

These responses are exactly what I was expecting and, as I said, with my C2S I always used 98 RON and almost always Shell V-Power.

Would still like to know how quickly the engine adapts between grades and also how the ignition timing copes with a mixture of 95 RON & 98 RON.?

 

The "knock" sensor continuously monitors the combustion process and adapts all the time. If you put in 98 RON fuel after 95RON fuel the engine management system will gradually revert back to its optimum settings as the 95RON fuel "dilutes" back to 98 RON.

This has to be very precise on modern high - compression engines, the higher the compression ratio the more efficient the engine and the more subsceptible to pre ignition (knocking) by inferior fuels.

--
 

Porsche Cayman S PDK Aqua Blue / Ocean Blue  (November 10) : Toyota Yaris D4D (Oct 10) 

Interesting discussion!

I always fill 98 ESSO or BP.

I don't like 100 very much, and avoid Shell.. Not sure if its just a silly feeling on my part, but the engine doesn't sound as good as on 98.

Regarding power loss, i have not yet filled 95 on the 911, but I did once fill a few liters of 95 into a near empty tank on my e39 M5, a few years back.. Definitely felt weaker.

My advice.... don't go back there! ;-) if he is penny pinching the gas, wonder what else he is upto!

dreamcar:

The "knock" sensor continuously monitors the combustion process and adapts all the time. If you put in 98 RON fuel after 95RON fuel the engine management system will gradually revert back to its optimum settings as the 95RON fuel "dilutes" back to 98 RON.

This has to be very precise on modern high - compression engines, the higher the compression ratio the more efficient the engine and the more subsceptible to pre ignition (knocking) by inferior fuels.

Ha, thans for answering my unasked question! I was wondering how the motor management system was measuring; put a sensor in the fuel, or by measuring the combustion process. Last makes most snese I think.

John, if you're really anal about it, you can always empty the tank with a syphon, putting the fule in a jerrycan, and fill her up with a fule of choice. That way, you won't (or at least shorter) suffer from the dilution process, alos making sure that less of the "dirt"/less quality fuel goes through the system...

Thanks for the explanation DC - I'm no engineer, and needed this guidance (everyone to their own!)... my skills, if any, lie in a totally opposite direction..

Joost - I've already filled up with 98 RON so, I guess I'm pretty much on my way to being 'well-diluted' at this point..

HeavyMetalThunder - (I love your name, being an ardent HM fan) - I'm pretty sure that Shell V-Power is 98 RON in the UK...it's certainly not 100 RON.

The OPC is excellent in all other aspects... apart from it's fuel policy it seems..

"Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."

John H:

Thanks for the explanation DC - I'm no engineer, and needed this guidance (everyone to their own!)... my skills, if any, lie in a totally opposite direction..

 

 
 

No problem John, but I'm a marine engineer, not an automotive one, whilst I understand the theory someone like Fritz will no doubt give you a far more authoritive view than mine. It's amazing how even the massive marine heavy oil fuelled engines (now achieving over 110,000bhp from a 14 cylinder monster weighing 2,500 tonnes) are now equipped with electronic fuel injection and variable valve timimg just like cars to meet the ever more stringent environmental legislation!

Porsche Cayman S PDK Aqua Blue / Ocean Blue  (November 10) : Toyota Yaris D4D (Oct 10)