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    Dec 10, 2010 6:44:35 PM

    trip
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    KresoF1:

    Stefan,

    Problem is in very big wheel archers on new cars(new 6 series, 458 or new 991 for example...). 19" wheels simply look to wimp on these cars IMHO.

    Few extra infos that is also in Auto Zeiting article:

    -13s faster then 997.2 CS model-claim is 7.40min Ring time

    -3.4L base engine with 350ps and 3.8L with 400ps for CS

    -in drive dynamics at least class above 997.2 Carrera models

     

    ...according to my source new 991 Carreras are much, much better cars then 997.2 models.


    This is why I love Rennteam, the car hasn't even been shown and we know its approximate 'ring time. Thanks Kreso! Smiley

    Dec 10, 2010 6:55:19 PM

    reginos
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    KresoF1: 

    ...according to my source new 991 Carreras are much, much better cars then 997.2 models.

    That's has always been the Porsche way. Offering significant improvements between models not just cosmetic changes.


    --

    "Form follows function"

    Dec 10, 2010 7:08:43 PM

    Carlos from SpainM
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    Reply to: reginos

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

     13 seconds faster than the 997.2CS in the ring I find very hard to believe, that is a HUGE difference, Porsche doesn't usually make jumps that huge...


    --

    Dec 10, 2010 7:13:53 PM

    Atzporsche
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    Reply to: Carlos from SpainM

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    That would be amazing, but i really don't see how that is possible with +20hp and -40kg...


    --

    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 

    Dec 10, 2010 7:23:44 PM

    Wonderbar
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Quite an improvement if true.  I remember thinking my 996TT with 408HP was fast, with a Ring time then in the high 7:50s.. 

    Dec 10, 2010 7:25:20 PM

    GT Offline
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    Reply to: Wonderbar

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Kreso do you think (or know) if they are going to keep the DFI engine on the turbo models or switch back to GT1 (like the GT2RS?) or something else? At some point a V8 was also mentioned..

    Dec 10, 2010 7:35:27 PM

    Atzporsche
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    Reply to: GT

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    I'd like to display my 2 year old sketches at this point

     

     


    --

    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 

    Dec 10, 2010 7:43:51 PM

    bobr
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    Reply to: Atzporsche

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    SmileySmiley Very nice sketches...This may be what the 991 C4S looks like from the rear


    --
    2006 987S, Artic Silver, Cocoa, Cocoa Top 2006 Cayenne S Lapis Blue New York

    Dec 10, 2010 9:01:56 PM

    KMM
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    KresoF1:

    Stefan,

    Problem is in very big wheel archers on new cars(new 6 series, 458 or new 991 for example...). 19" wheels simply look to wimp on these cars IMHO.

     
    The question then becomes, why the very big wheel arches? 

    I used to find the 928 & 944 / 968 were so neat because of the tight gap between the fender lip and the tire (among other reasons). Now, everything has an SUV look for some reason. Do newer cars have more wheel travel then the older ones, necessitating the larger openings? I doubt it.

    Does anyone have any thoughts on that?

    KMMPorsche-928-3.jpg

    Dec 10, 2010 9:08:00 PM

    Ron (Houston)M
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    KresoF1:

    -13s faster then 997.2 CS model-claim is 7.40min Ring time


    Kreso,

    Are you sure this is not a typo 1.3s as opposed to 13s ? 

    Thanks for the info as always.


    --
    Happy Driving

    Dec 10, 2010 10:00:45 PM

    Misha011
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    Reply to: KMM

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    With all those new components on rear (maybe front too) suspension - obviously they had to go 20" .  991 will have a kind of active suspension and that explains  7:40 Ring time  .

    active suspension.JPG

    Dec 11, 2010 12:06:49 AM

    Ron (Houston)M
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    Reply to: Atzporsche

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Is this one yours too ?

    1292026003531991.jpg


    --
    Happy Driving

    Dec 11, 2010 12:37:29 AM

    Atzporsche
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    Reply to: Ron (Houston)M

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    yes though the rear bum is too big... it looks more Panamera to me..


    --

    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 

    Dec 11, 2010 1:00:38 AM

    xandi911
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    Reply to: Atzporsche

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

     

    20'' is necessary since the car is bigger,   i wouldnt like a 911 with ''toys wheels''  and it can be bigger wheels without being BIGGER tires,  just  put a tire with less rubber...

     

    sorry bad english...

    example  295/30/19  so it can be, 295/25/20  fi you do the calcs the TOTAL RATIO will be the same.

    Dec 11, 2010 1:06:34 AM

    Porsche_lover
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    Reply to: Boxster Coupe GTS

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Boxster Coupe GTS:

     

    ...

    2012-Porsche-911-Carrera-8.jpg

     

    ...

     

    I am wondering whether I am the only one actually wondering where you can get such government approvement and the matching sticker Smiley I am normally against stickers on cars, but for this one I would make an exception Smiley I sometimes like to do some high speed testing as well...

    Dec 11, 2010 1:11:08 AM

    Atzporsche
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    Reply to: Porsche_lover

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    http://www.cafepress.com/+government_approved_high_speed_testing_vehicle,70564108


    --

    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 

    Dec 11, 2010 6:05:14 AM

    intouch1
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    Reply to: Atzporsche

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    you will need the governoment that matches the sticker


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Dec 11, 2010 10:13:32 AM

    GnilM
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    Reply to: Porsche_lover

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Porsche_lover:
    Boxster Coupe GTS:

     

    ...

    2012-Porsche-911-Carrera-8.jpg

     

    ...

     

    I am wondering whether I am the only one actually wondering where you can get such government approvement and the matching sticker Smiley I am normally against stickers on cars, but for this one I would make an exception Smiley I sometimes like to do some high speed testing as well...

     That is in South Africa . I have seen them driving around there with these stickers Smiley


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

    Dec 11, 2010 12:25:24 PM

    Rossi
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    Reply to: GnilM

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Gnil:

     That is in South Africa . I have seen them driving around there with these stickers Smiley


    I guess Mike has them on all his cars. Smiley

    ... so I guess he has bought the total circulation of this sticker. Smiley
     


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

    Dec 11, 2010 4:44:47 PM

    KresoF1
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    Reply to: GT

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    GT:

    Kreso do you think (or know) if they are going to keep the DFI engine on the turbo models or switch back to GT1 (like the GT2RS?) or something else? At some point a V8 was also mentioned..


    Honestly, I do not know-currently...Smiley

    How about this-true dry sump reinforced version of engine from 997.2 Turbo S?

    Dec 11, 2010 4:46:34 PM

    KresoF1
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    Reply to: Ron (Houston)M

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Ron (Houston):
    KresoF1:

    -13s faster then 997.2 CS model-claim is 7.40min Ring time


    Kreso,

    Are you sure this is not a typo 1.3s as opposed to 13s ? 

    Thanks for the info as always.


    Ron,

    Auto Zeitung article clearly mentioned 13s faster-so, 7.40min Ring time(7.40min was also mentioned in article). Same info as I got from my source almost 6 weeks ago.

    Dec 11, 2010 4:59:56 PM

    Ron (Houston)M
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    KresoF1:
    Ron (Houston):
    KresoF1:

    -13s faster then 997.2 CS model-claim is 7.40min Ring time


    Kreso,

    Are you sure this is not a typo 1.3s as opposed to 13s ? 

    Thanks for the info as always.


    Ron,

    Auto Zeitung article clearly mentioned 13s faster-so, 7.40min Ring time(7.40min was also mentioned in article). Same info as I got from my source almost 6 weeks ago.

     This is going to be one hell of a 911 Smiley.  Can't wait to read more about it.


    --
    Happy Driving

    Dec 11, 2010 5:31:55 PM

    Carlos from SpainM
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    KresoF1:
    Ron (Houston):
    KresoF1:

    -13s faster then 997.2 CS model-claim is 7.40min Ring time


    Kreso,

    Are you sure this is not a typo 1.3s as opposed to 13s ? 

    Thanks for the info as always.


    Ron,

    Auto Zeitung article clearly mentioned 13s faster-so, 7.40min Ring time(7.40min was also mentioned in article). Same info as I got from my source almost 6 weeks ago.

     

    There has got to be a trick somewere, isn't 7:40 Rohrl's lap time for the 997.2GT3???  (and 7:42 for the 997.1GT3) Smiley


    --

    Dec 11, 2010 8:19:44 PM

    JimFlat6
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    Reply to: Carlos from SpainM

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Perhaps the 991 will be the first 911 with complete real time dynamic integration of systems and sensors - suspension/differential)/throttle/transmission /vehicle attiitude etc

    That would explain the lower lap times for the 'ring.

    By comparison the new 991 may make the Nissan GTR's systems and capabilities look primitive.

    Dec 11, 2010 8:53:37 PM

    reginos
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    Reply to: Carlos from SpainM

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Carlos from Spain:
    KresoF1:
    Ron (Houston):
    KresoF1:

    -13s faster then 997.2 CS model-claim is 7.40min Ring time


    Kreso,

    Are you sure this is not a typo 1.3s as opposed to 13s ? 

    Thanks for the info as always.


    Ron,

    Auto Zeitung article clearly mentioned 13s faster-so, 7.40min Ring time(7.40min was also mentioned in article). Same info as I got from my source almost 6 weeks ago.

     

    There has got to be a trick somewere, isn't 7:40 Rohrl's lap time for the 997.2GT3???  (and 7:42 for the 997.1GT3) Smiley

    If you think that 997.2 was 15secs faster than 997.1 (even if you allow 7 secs for sport tyres it's 8 secs "net") why not the 991 compared to 997.2?


    --

    "Form follows function"

    Dec 11, 2010 9:34:38 PM

    Carlos from SpainM
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    Reply to: reginos

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    That was with PDK and sport tires, which makes it much less than actual 15secs, this is more than twice the jump. Also when was the nurburgring's surface tarmac redone? between the 997.1CS and 997.2CS lap times?  

    And the lower you go on the lap times, the closer they tend to get and the less differences there are between cars, so 13 secs in times above 8min for example is not the same as 13sec difference bellow 8min times. Each improvement with each generation should translate into less of a lap time drop, as it gets harder and harder to reach the physical limits. Dropping to 7:40 is huge, never has a Carrera facelift o model change matched the previous version's GT3 lap. That alone is what makes me hard to believe that lap time ofthe 991, the 991 "CarreraS" will be matching a "current 997.2 GT3" with sports suspension, more horsepower, better high speed aerodinamic stability, cup tires, etc.


    --

    Dec 12, 2010 1:54:11 AM

    xandi911
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    Reply to: Carlos from SpainM

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Carlos from Spain:

    That was with PDK and sport tires, which makes it much less than actual 15secs, this is more than twice the jump. Also when was the nurburgring's surface tarmac redone? between the 997.1CS and 997.2CS lap times?  

    And the lower you go on the lap times, the closer they tend to get and the less differences there are between cars, so 13 secs in times above 8min for example is not the same as 13sec difference bellow 8min times. Each improvement with each generation should translate into less of a lap time drop, as it gets harder and harder to reach the physical limits. Dropping to 7:40 is huge, never has a Carrera facelift o model change matched the previous version's GT3 lap. That alone is what makes me hard to believe that lap time ofthe 991, the 991 "CarreraS" will be matching a "current 997.2 GT3" with sports suspension, more horsepower, better high speed aerodinamic stability, cup tires, etc.


    perfect!!! when closer to the limit  harder to improve!

    Dec 12, 2010 5:39:37 AM

    reginos
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    Reply to: Carlos from SpainM

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Carlos from Spain:

    That was with PDK and sport tires, which makes it much less than actual 15secs, this is more than twice the jump. Also when was the nurburgring's surface tarmac redone? between the 997.1CS and 997.2CS lap times?  

    And the lower you go on the lap times, the closer they tend to get and the less differences there are between cars, so 13 secs in times above 8min for example is not the same as 13sec difference bellow 8min times. Each improvement with each generation should translate into less of a lap time drop, as it gets harder and harder to reach the physical limits. Dropping to 7:40 is huge, never has a Carrera facelift o model change matched the previous version's GT3 lap. That alone is what makes me hard to believe that lap time ofthe 991, the 991 "CarreraS" will be matching a "current 997.2 GT3" with sports suspension, more horsepower, better high speed aerodinamic stability, cup tires, etc.

    The sport tyres accounted for 7 secs out of 15 secs, according to the Sport Auto experts.

    991 will have 20HP more and little less weight, improved PDK, Torque vectoring diff, dynamic engine mounts, better aerodynamics and longer wheelbase (more stability in corners).

    It's true of course that the lower you get in times the harder is to improve.

    We'll see


    --

    "Form follows function"

    Dec 12, 2010 8:44:07 AM

    mateoche
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    Reply to: reginos

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

     

    here's a list of the lap Nurburgring lap times--

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nürburgring_lap_times

    Dec 12, 2010 9:32:10 AM

    Carlos from SpainM
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    Reply to: reginos

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    reginos:
    Carlos from Spain:

    That was with PDK and sport tires, which makes it much less than actual 15secs, this is more than twice the jump. Also when was the nurburgring's surface tarmac redone? between the 997.1CS and 997.2CS lap times?  

    And the lower you go on the lap times, the closer they tend to get and the less differences there are between cars, so 13 secs in times above 8min for example is not the same as 13sec difference bellow 8min times. Each improvement with each generation should translate into less of a lap time drop, as it gets harder and harder to reach the physical limits. Dropping to 7:40 is huge, never has a Carrera facelift o model change matched the previous version's GT3 lap. That alone is what makes me hard to believe that lap time ofthe 991, the 991 "CarreraS" will be matching a "current 997.2 GT3" with sports suspension, more horsepower, better high speed aerodinamic stability, cup tires, etc.

    The sport tyres accounted for 7 secs out of 15 secs, according to the Sport Auto experts.

    991 will have 20HP more and little less weight, improved PDK, Torque vectoring diff, dynamic engine mounts, better aerodynamics and longer wheelbase (more stability in corners).

    It's true of course that the lower you get in times the harder is to improve.

    We'll see


    --

    "Form follows function"

     

    Not that I'm complaining Reginos, the faster the 991 better for me Smiley but 13 seconds faster than the 997.2CS is such a huge improvement that its hard to believe, that is over 20 seconds faster than a 997.1 and specially as fast a still current 997.2 GT3; what can the 991 posibly have that will compensate for its inferior HP over the GT3, its softer suspensions, inferior aerodinamics, etc... I haven't heard of anything that could bring such an improvement in performance to compensate for all that, so there may be something more to that 7:40 lap time. Maybe it was done with slick tires or something.

    Maybe Suzuka was the driver and Nissan the timing offcials? Smiley 


    --

     
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