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Oct 1, 2010 11:57:02 AM
- easy_rider911
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Carlos from Spain
I will follow this story with interest 
Oct 1, 2010 12:33:22 PM
- Spyderidol
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Oct 1, 2010 12:44:58 PM
- reginos
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Re: Porsche in F1?
Actually, IMO Audi's sports car racing involvement has been saturated after so many successes in both Europe and USA, so I expect the next move to be F1 against Mercedes and the rest.
This will leave the door open for Porsche to return to its natural home.
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"Form follows function"
Oct 1, 2010 12:45:06 PM
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FFaust
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Re: Porsche in F1?
Spyderidol:
I personally don't want this to happen. Porsche is so much more than just an engine supplier.
Unfortunately, and as I predicted, the tie in with VW is complicating Porsche's return to it's natural home: Sports Car Racing!
"He made it clear that he expected either Porsche or Audi to have an LMP1 car in the future - while the other brand would then enter F1."
I guess that the writing is on the wall. As a marketing exercise, it has huge implications on the brand's image.
But it's still probably too early to add a link to Easy's F1 thread...
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Slow In, Fast Out
Oct 1, 2010 11:03:39 PM
- Atzporsche
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Re: Porsche in F1?
Well the VW overtaking is good for something then. But just an engine supplier would be rather boring.. Porsche should go to the hardcore racing series that will bring some design elements to their cars. F1 is too much out there.
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indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine.. I happen to like both :)
Oct 1, 2010 11:17:29 PM
- WAY
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Re: Porsche in F1?
Atzporsche:Well the VW overtaking is good for something then. But just an engine supplier would be rather boring.. Porsche should go to the hardcore racing series that will bring some design elements to their cars. F1 is too much out there.
Oct 9, 2010 9:09:34 AM
- Spyderidol
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Re: Porsche in F1?
Official says Porsche 'can afford' own F1 team
This is looking like it is more and more probable.
I am very sad indeed! 
Re: Porsche in F1?
I would like to see a LMP1 car winning LM and elsewhere.
F1 is very tricky as a marketing tool. See how many manufacturers have gone in and out of F1 with their hands (and pockets) empty. If I were Porsche I would supply engines and utilise any success and keep out of any potential failure.
Supplying engines in F1 counts for a lot. TAG-Porsche, Honda, Ford, Mercedes and Renault all had their share in the success of F1 teams and gained prestige with little risk.
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"Form follows function"
Oct 9, 2010 10:51:33 AM
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Carlos from Spain
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Eunice
Re: Porsche in F1?
The more competitions they particpate in the better, and F1 is a great showcase for them, but the only thing I would ask Porsche is that if they decide to compete as a team, its because they know they can be a top team, and not to bother if they are going to be competing against the Hispanias, Virgins, etc... 
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Oct 9, 2010 10:54:33 AM
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Eunice
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Carlos from Spain
Oct 9, 2010 11:06:06 AM
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Carlos from Spain
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Re: Porsche in F1?
Eunice:
I assume if Porsche is entering F1, it's going to be to become a top team, and with a budget to achieve that. A half assed F1 effort will only hurt the brand.
Exactly, but the problem is that F1 is very tricky, having a big budget does not necesarily guarantee results in F1, just look at Toyota in recent years and their huge budget(I believe it was the biggest), or Honda-BAR. They need to have great "F1" engineers, test drivers, managers, etc in the pay roll as well as one top driver at least on the seat. Unless they know they have all that tied down, they better not bother because F1 is not like other motorsport competitions, they can't start from scratch and use their know-how from other competitions and apply it to F1 and think they can be competitive. Then there is the "circus" part of F1 and all its bull$hit too.
I guess the best way to start is to buy a current mid-level team from the grid, sign-in a few key top guys in F1 and launch from there. And personally I think they would need a lot of luck to be able to do that besides the huge amounts of money 
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Oct 9, 2010 11:12:15 AM
- reginos
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Carlos from Spain
Re: Porsche in F1?
Only Mercedes in recent years got a lot out of F1 and that was in large part to the tie-up with McLaren a long established team. Team-Renault was a flash in the pan, already
Think of the failures amongst manufacturers: Peugeot,Toyota, Honda, Jaguar, BMW and others I don't remember now.
OTOH, you make a good LMP1 car, choose a period with little competition win LM and a few other long distance classics for a few times and the publicity will last you very long. The outlay? A fraction of F1.
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"Form follows function"
Oct 9, 2010 11:13:01 AM
- Spyderidol
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Eunice
Re: Porsche in F1?
There are many reasons why I think this is a bad idea.
- Porsche's traditional home is in sportcar racing and not F1
- Today's F1 rules are so far removed from anything resembling a road going car that any technological exchange is really quite minimal.
- Porsche has a very profitable GT racing business. How much is that business going to suffer due to the enormous effort that a F1 program will require?
- The costs of continuously producing a competitive car is astronomical. Will Porsche be able to afford this over an extended period of time? (even with VAG backing)
- It will take time before Porsche is able to produce a competitive car (if they ever manage to to do so at all). Are we willing to see Porsche racing with the Hispania's and Virgins for the next couple of years?
- What happens when Porsche eventually pulls out of F1? They will have lost much of their Sportcar tradition and know-how (and they will certainly be behind the curve by that time). How long will it take for them to come back to their winning ways.
- What is the marketing and PR risk for Porsche if they do not succeed in F1? (very, very easy to imagine)
- With the exception of Ferrari, the other manufacturers in F1 are much more Audi's competitors than they are Porsche's.
- Finally -( And this is personal) There is no more romanticism in F1. Much of it as gone from sportscar racing as well, but there is still much more than in F1.
Oct 9, 2010 11:28:41 AM
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Eunice
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Re: Porsche in F1?
Your points are all valid, but I think they do not outweigh the possibilities a F1 participation has to offer.
LMP1 is in no ways comparable to the publicity of a F1 participation. Of course, entering the F1 will have to be an all out effort. And Audi and Porsche are not allowed to compete.
F1 works very well for Ferrari, they do transfer technology to their road cars and it's very good for the brand.
The real question is, will Porsche be like Ferrari in F1? I think they can be.
Re: Porsche in F1?
Eunice:
F1 works very well for Ferrari, they do transfer technology to their road cars and it's very good for the brand.
What technologies? A large amount of technology is bought in from outside suppliers/sub-contractors not only for Ferrari but for other teams and in other areas of motorsport too.
Lamborghini have never raced extensively, if at all, never won anything and yet their cars are technologically as good as Ferrari, and for some even better.
The benefit of motorsport is the publicity and the customer loyalty that this creates. Important things of course but the trick is to gain this prestige in the most economical way.
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"Form follows function"
Re: Porsche in F1?
a few small corrections -
Lamborghini did try F1 with the Larousse-lamborghini effort of the early 90's. It was a flop.
BMW did get notoriety out of their effort, especially going back to the 80's when they powered the Brabham BMW of Piquet and later the bennettons. Most powerful turbo's ever in F1. 1300+ hp from a 1.5 liter 4 cyl engine. M POWER
I too think it should start out as an engine supplier only with contingent plans for a full team if the engine succeeds. The Porsche TAG turbo was the most dominant engine in F1.
Is F1 going back to turbo's?
Re: Porsche in F1?
Engine supplier benefits, examples:
TAG turbo engine in dominant McLaren between 1984-1986 (5 titles) and Porsche get a large share of the publicity and prestige that is still exploited to this day.
Porsche V12 3.5 engine powering Footwork Arrows in 1991, was a disaster that lasted only for a few races and was dropped. No one remembers this Porsche fiasco. Had it been a Porsche factory team the stigma would linger on and the cost of failure, monetary and otherwise, would have been enormous.
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"Form follows function"
Re: Porsche in F1?
racerx:
They were also doing an indy car engine around that time which was showing potential but it was canceled due to budget. The early 90's were a very troubled time for Porsche. Money was very tight, so I do not know if the quitting then was technical or financial.
Here is an article about the V12
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_3512
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"Form follows function"
Re: Porsche in F1?
AL UNSER NAMED TO DRIVE QUAKER STATE PORSCHE INDY CAR
EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J., June 25 /PRNewswire/ -- Al Unser, the winner of this year's Indianapolis 500 race has been named by Porsche Motorsport North America and Quaker State Oil Refining Corporation as the driver of the new Quaker State Porsche Indy Car which will be unveiled in September.
In making the announcement, Al Holbert, Director, Porsche Motorsport North America, stated, "The objective of the program this year is to test the new Quaker State Porsche in a racing environment. This requires a driver who knows how to race and win while still conserving the car. Al Unser fits the bill perfectly." …
1989 Derrick Walker "Quaker State" March/Porsche. Teo Fabi. Winner, CART at Mid Ohio. IIRC, only win for Porsche in any Indycar series, regardless of sanctioning body.
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