CloseIf you have a look at the pictures from these two links, one might think Ferrari still hasn't solved the problem that their cars are prone to catch fire... 
www.autogespot.com/nl/item/8266/ferrari-458-italia-in-de-brand-in-hartje-parijs.html
www.forum-auto.com/marques/ferrari/sujet2119.htm
The secret of life is to admire without desiring.
nberry:
Oh my, this is not good. Were either of these 458s involved in an accident prior to the fire?
The second one was just "accidentally" standing in a parking bay. 
Would that be a good enough reason for an expensive barbecue? 
fritz
Jul 16, 2010 7:13:50 PM
Wow really still haven't fixed the issues at Ferrari. Not good indeed. This issue should be #1 priority at Ferrari, really not good for brand image and it's been an ongoing issue.
The 458 is pretty hot i guess 
Poor owners, I would cry for days.
indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine.. I happen to like both :)
I have understood from the first day I bought a Ferrari that I will be doing the R&D for Ferrari on the car. As I wrote before, Ferrari does not test its cars as extensively has high volume manufacturers. Instead, they react to problem issues that come up while the car is driven by the customer. Thus long fix times and part shortages.
nberry:
I have understood from the first day I bought a Ferrari that I will be doing the R&D for Ferrari on the car. As I wrote before, Ferrari does not test its cars as extensively has high volume manufacturers. Instead, they react to problem issues that come up while the car is driven by the customer. Thus long fix times and part shortages.
Such under-engineered Italian products could be volume products too. From washing machines to domestic elevators to mass produced FIAT and Lancia cars.
"Form follows function"
Jul 16, 2010 9:55:46 PM
People wait years to get one of these cars. They pay a high purchase price. And then this kind of thing happens. That's just tragic 
RT Moderator - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection
nberry:
I have understood from the first day I bought a Ferrari that I will be doing the R&D for Ferrari on the car. As I wrote before, Ferrari does not test its cars as extensively has high volume manufacturers. Instead, they react to problem issues that come up while the car is driven by the customer. Thus long fix times and part shortages.
Plus, one wonders if the " mundane " parts such as couplers on hoses for instance , are just pulled from the FIAT parts bins which are supplied by possibly the lowest bidders /lower tier suppliers which other manufacturers such as Mercedes wouldn't stoop to use ?
Jul 17, 2010 4:03:11 AM
In response to all this Ferrari bashing and to some even bashing all things Italian and mechanical, here are some nice pics of Porsche heated seat technology going to the final level....
http://www.mibz.com/13968-shocking-a-porsche-911-turbo-caught-on-fire-suddenly-in-usa.html
Porsche has inadvertantly made plenty of 4 wheel BBQ's in its history. There is even someone on this board who took delivery of a brand new 911 and discovered the dangerous way that his Porsche's sway bar bolts were defective. His life was put in serious danger.... You probably know who I am writing about.
Please remember this important industrial fact: Karmann of Germany actually invented rust.. only then was it licensed to Italy.
It's not just 911s.....
It's easy to look on in horror at these types of events but there could be any number of reasons. For example on a UK based Ferrari board a recent buyer of a 6 year old Challenge Stradale nearly suffered a catastrophic fire whilst out in his car with his young daughter. He spotted the smoke, stopped and put it out quickly but the reason it started in the first place was that the thermowell CAT sensor connector had come off the engine cradle and the plastic housing had landed on the catalyic convertor and started to melt. He suspects he may have dislodged it whilst cleaning his engine bay and that the vibration of the engine when on the move may have caused it to dislodge completely thus causing the problem. Had pictures of his burning car appeared on the net with no explanation of how it happened people would simply say "yet another burning Ferrari".
All large capacity, mid or rear engined cars get very hot in their engine bays so the slightest issue can cause severe problems. Add in the location of the red hot exhaust directly behind the engine and a simple thing like a cooling fan fault could cause a massive heat build up in a relatively short timeframe making some components more vulnerable to meltdown. You cannot heatshield everything in there as there simply isn't the room.
Jul 17, 2010 9:23:59 AM
Spyderidol:
Not really brand new cars though
I'm not sure what point you are trying to make I highlighted the 6 year old Stradale as it had managed to rack up over 20,000 miles without fault then due to an error by the owner almost went up in flames. Someone could just have easily dislodged the wiring causing the fault when that car was a few weeks/months old but didn't and that was my point. We don't know how old either 458 was, how they'd been driven/maintained/what caused the fire in each instance etc. It may be rogue build faults, component failure or owner error. I read recently about a Lamborghini Murcielago that burned in the US due to a poor aftermarket hi-fi installation. No doubt those pics caused people to say there goes another unreliable Italian exotic if they didn't realise it was due to the poor workmanship of an installer, not a factory issue.
Ferrari have been building the 458 since January so allowing for production ramp up it's probably safe to assume that over 1000 + examples have been delivered thus far. I'd therefore hardly call these two incidents cause for huge alarm as a percentage of cars in use.
It always looks far more dramatic when a Ferrari burns due to the extensive use of aluminium and plastic in these cars. Aluminium just disintergrates at high temperatures and the very nature of the design of mid engined cars ensures an engine bay fire gets plenty of oxygen to burn due to all of the cooling vents on th bodywork feeding it combined with rear decks that have a lot of air vents built in. In comparison a front engined family car/SUV etc has an enclosed steel engine bay that can only draw additional oxygen through the front grille and underbody thus restricting the sped of a blaze and making it easier to douse the fire before the whole car is engulfed.
A badly made Italian product (regardless of type and price) is the rule. A badly made German product (sure they exist) is the big exception.
The possibility of experiencing consistent bullet-proof reliability in a Ferrari (or small brother FIAT) is the same as surviving multiple rounds of Russian roulette.
--
"Form follows function"
reginos:
A badly made Italian product (regardless of type and price) is the rule. A badly made German product (sure they exist) is the big exception.
The possibility of experiencing consistent bullet-proof reliability in a Ferrari (or small brother FIAT) is the same as surviving multiple rounds of Russian roulette.
--"Form follows function"
Man give it up!! It's not enough that you keep trashing Ferrari on every post, now you are Trashing anything Italian?!!
koko:
reginos:
A badly made Italian product (regardless of type and price) is the rule. A badly made German product (sure they exist) is the big exception.
The possibility of experiencing consistent bullet-proof reliability in a Ferrari (or small brother FIAT) is the same as surviving multiple rounds of Russian roulette.
--"Form follows function"
Man give it up!! It's not enough that you keep trashing Ferrari on every post, now you are Trashing anything Italian?!!
Facts of life my friend. We are living and learning 
"Form follows function"
koko:
if you think Ferrari is that bad a product, then why don't you spare us and go stick with the German cars section ??
Don't take this discussion about cars and things personally. We are all expressing opinions and sharing experiences here. If you think something is wrong you don't have to adopt it.
--
"Form follows function"
ISUK:
Spyderidol:
Not really brand new cars though
I'm not sure what point you are trying to make
Ferrari have been building the 458 since January so allowing for production ramp up it's probably safe to assume that over 1000 + examples have been delivered thus far. I'd therefore hardly call these two incidents cause for huge alarm as a percentage of cars in use.
It always looks far more dramatic when a Ferrari burns due to the extensive use of aluminium and plastic in these cars. Aluminium just disintergrates at high temperatures and the very nature of the design of mid engined cars ensures an engine bay fire gets plenty of oxygen to burn due to all of the cooling vents on th bodywork feeding it combined with rear decks that have a lot of air vents built in. In comparison a front engined family car/SUV etc has an enclosed steel engine bay that can only draw additional oxygen through the front grille and underbody thus restricting the sped of a blaze and making it easier to douse the fire before the whole car is engulfed.
ISUK, did you already place your order for the Spider??
koko:
Niiccee
When is your delivery date for the Spider??
I believe (though cannot say for certain) the spider will be launched later this year and may make it's show debut at Paris or failing that Geneva. I don't know when deliveries will commence but if it follows the same pattern as the berlinetta then UK deliveries will start around 6 months after Europe. I'm down for car number two at my dealer.
Iain, I agree with most of what you wrote.However, my concern is these fires occurred on cars which are probably less than six months old. Though we cannot say for certain the cause of the fire, we all should be concerned given the relatively young age of the cars. To compare a six old Stadale is not relevant.
Fires of this nature should not happen on any car. Hopefully, these are the exception though I suspect not.
Nick,
The age of the Stradale was exactly why I posted about it. To prove that it had managed to go through six years without incident then one silly mistake by it's owner - not a build fault or mechanical issue - nearly torched it. Who's to say that something similar didn't happen to these new cars? The point is none of us know what caused these fires yet as usual when confronted by such a scene the usual old cliches/fears come trotting out.
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