Close
my guess would be 7:35 with HvS 7:30 without HvS :D,
458 is a everyday sports car, gt2rs is a super track verison of a super track car, not realy a comparison there now is there, nor is it really fair to compare 3.8l turbo with a 4.5l NA, the turbo will always have more hp/torque, if dore right that is
KresoF1:
Nick,
Quiz...
A. Is 458 Ring time 7.33min or better?
B. Is 458 Ring time between 7.38min and 7.34min?
C. Is 458 Ring time between 7.42min and 7.39min?
Choose your answer....
B. This answer would make the most sense. 569 hp and not a track car. I would estimate 7.37.
I have to assume you were misleading us on a faster time than the CGT unless you were surmising my time driving the CGT on the Ring.
--
arakis:
like i said, if the car beats the gt2 997.1 on every other mag, and in this one it is slower, my prevus point stands, but to find that out will have to wait for all the raceing mags/shows to test it.
as far as "very,very good" results, if the thing is as fast as, or faster then the scud, i am then verry impresed with the future of ferrari cars!
You get impressed with so less...for me is as expected,nothing unusual.
REALZEUS:
reginos:
Soon this discussion will be of little relevance, if the GT2 RS laps the NBR below 7.20, as rumoured.
Do you regard the GT2 RS as a 458 competitor? I see it as a GTO competitor. Also, let's wait for tests in other tracks by non german and italian magazines.
The GTO costs some 50-60% more than the GT2RS, but I doubt it will drop below 7.20.
UK magazines don't test cars that thoroughly as far as I know. Too much literature and subjective remarks and not that many figures.
IMO the ultimate comparative test is the NBR, because of its length and variety and the fact that most reputable manufacturers use it for development. There are myriads of "normal" race tracks around and it is easy for each manufacturer to pick and choose the one that suits their car in order to create impressions. To highlight my point, although these are private facilities, I bet no one can beat Ferrari in Fiorano and equally no one can beat Porsche at Weissach.
"Form follows function"
The GTO, as any Ferrari, is much more expensive as Ferraris are handbuilt and exclusive. Nothing new there aderfe. I can see where you are coming from regarding N'Ring, but for the same reasons it's a skewed testing ground in my book. Too bumpy, too driver dependent and too slippery (it favours Corsas, Cups+ and other semi slicks for that matter).
UK magazines are a joke (especially Autocar, that 100+ year old legend)! I only trust CAR and it's PCOTY test to be honest. Other than that I really like Quattroruote, R&T and 4Wheels. Some of the staffers of the latter I know personally and they are honest blokes.
--
FERRARI RULES!!!
so preaty much the only reference thats of any importance to porsche fans is the sport auto test, that someow always gets near factory laptimes, while for all other cars it falls short.
Here is a simple fact of life, all car mag tests are FALSE, pople here and everywere, put too much into them, they are simply wrong!
Only thing you can get from them is too see what cars are competitive too each other, and thats a preaty wide margin off error!
are mags test different cars at ifferent times, and to say sport auto is spcial because they are realy carefull to be precise is ignorant!
There is no way to test to cars on different days and compare laptimes!!!!!! the only reason they do it is for the misinformed, its entertainment!
And the reason is simple, different track conditions can cost you second easily n a normal lenght track, and tens of seconds on nurbergring!
so a 997gt2rs tested on a sunny day in august, near the sunset, after a 24h race day , will set a time off lets say 7:10. while that same car in 2 days, on a missty sunrise, after a day of rain, but still same temp as the first test will set 7:30.
thus unless sport auo tests all their cars at the time,its pointless, even more pointt less is comparing year old times to new ones, as every track is continuasly worked on. fixed patced and so on , expecialy a busy track like the NBR
Arakis, if that is what you belive in...
BUT, in that case...
May 2010... In Croatia between Bosiljevo and Ostrovica(A6 ZG-RI for your reference)... 997.2 Turbo PDK Coupe and 458 Italia, drivers are friends, both cars with two people aboard... 19.30h, pretty good weather, dry highway... Between 120km/h-240km/h 997.2 Turbo PDK is faster, almost one and half car length faster... How is that possible? 997.2 Turbo PDK was driven in Sport+ D programm while 458 was in CST off manual... I was there and it happened... 458 driver was shocked...
BTW, I still think that 458 is more of a true sportscar then 997.2 Turbo.
arakis:
my guess would be 7:35 with HvS 7:30 without HvS :D,
458 is a everyday sports car, gt2rs is a super track verison of a super track car, not realy a comparison there now is there, nor is it really fair to compare 3.8l turbo with a 4.5l NA, the turbo will always have more hp/torque, if dore right that is
Judging by the 997 GT2, I'd say that even the GT2 RS is a better daily driver than the 458. Of course this is just an opinion based on my experience with past Porsche GT/RS models. 
As to the 458 vs. 997 Turbo Mk II comparison: while the 997 Turbo Mk II is a very fast car, I wouldn't see it in the same league with the 458 when it comes to track performance. The 997 Turbo S might be a slightly different story but still...the 458 is closer to the 997 GT2 than to the 997 Turbo in many ways.
As to the super sports car "factor", the 458 clearly wins over the 997 Turbo, no doubt about it.
--
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW
nberry:
KresoF1:
OK. Seems to me that far too many people do not know how to read between the lines...
Amazing results-faster then CGT and 997.1 GT2...
Very, very good results-as fast as Scud or better...
The CGT and 997.1GT2 were 7.32 and 7.33. The Scud was 7.38.
If I am reading this right then the 458 is below 7.32. If true, then the Ferrari support did a marvelous job in setting up the car for the Ring or Ferrari in five years has improved the car substantially from the 430 which I believe did not break 7.50 at the Ring.
No, you are reading it completely wrong. He said 458 is very very good.
arakis:
There is no way to test to cars on different days and compare laptimes!!!!!! the only reason they do it is for the misinformed, its entertainment!
And the reason is simple, different track conditions can cost you second easily n a normal lenght track, and tens of seconds on nurbergring!
so a 997gt2rs tested on a sunny day in august, near the sunset, after a 24h race day , will set a time off lets say 7:10. while that same car in 2 days, on a missty sunrise, after a day of rain, but still same temp as the first test will set 7:30.
thus unless sport auo tests all their cars at the time,its pointless, even more pointt less is comparing year old times to new ones, as every track is continuasly worked on. fixed patced and so on , expecialy a busy track like the NBR
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that a performance difference of 20 seconds happens because of weather conditions. 
May I ask you too: what super sports car do you have in your garage and what past experience do you have with such cars...as a driver of course ? Thank you.
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW
wedouglas:
Oh, Kreso, completely off topic, but any idea how the R8 GT is doing on the ring? Very, very good, or amazing? Obviously no mags testing it yet, but I assume others have.
I may be wrong but isn't the R8 GT available next year ? I doubt that any car magazine put it's hands on it for track testing before the car is available. The factory test values are, like with Porsche, pretty much useless for comparisons. They are achieved by drivers who know the cars like nobody else, same applies to the test track. I wouldn't put too much importance on what factory testdrivers achieve. Also many of the testcars are not stock, some are even more powerful or have a different chassis setup, not really good for comparisons.
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW
RC:
wedouglas:
Oh, Kreso, completely off topic, but any idea how the R8 GT is doing on the ring? Very, very good, or amazing? Obviously no mags testing it yet, but I assume others have.
I may be wrong but isn't the R8 GT available next year ? I doubt that any car magazine put it's hands on it for track testing before the car is available. The factory test values are, like with Porsche, pretty much useless for comparisons. They are achieved by drivers who know the cars like nobody else, same applies to the test track. I wouldn't put too much importance on what factory testdrivers achieve. Also many of the testcars are not stock, some are even more powerful or have a different chassis setup, not really good for comparisons.
True.
R8 GT deliveries starts in January 2011.
According to my quattro Gmbh source R8 GT is around 12s faster on the Ring then R8 V10. In ideal conditions...
Ok, this is what HvS told me when he got out of the 458, when he did the supertest. 7:38. This was done during the Sport Auto perfection training at the Ring.
But, later the same day, I cold see he was doing at least 2-3 laps more, and maybe he was trying to improve the time.
I also got a nice picture of the Ferrari guys filling their own fuel from their service car in the 458 before the supertest.. :)
Jul 5, 2010 9:43:13 AM
AlexGil:
Ok, this is what HvS told me when he got out of the 458, when he did the supertest. 7:38. This was done during the Sport Auto perfection training at the Ring.
But, later the same day, I cold see he was doing at least 2-3 laps more, and maybe he was trying to improve the time.
I also got a nice picture of the Ferrari guys filling their own fuel from their service car in the 458 before the supertest.. :)
.2 RS still faster?
AlexGil:
Ok, this is what HvS told me when he got out of the 458, when he did the supertest. 7:38. This was done during the Sport Auto perfection training at the Ring.
But, later the same day, I cold see he was doing at least 2-3 laps more, and maybe he was trying to improve the time.
I also got a nice picture of the Ferrari guys filling their own fuel from their service car in the 458 before the supertest.. :)
Thanks for your comment... 
AlexGil:
Ok, this is what HvS told me when he got out of the 458, when he did the supertest. 7:38. This was done during the Sport Auto perfection training at the Ring.
But, later the same day, I cold see he was doing at least 2-3 laps more, and maybe he was trying to improve the time.
I also got a nice picture of the Ferrari guys filling their own fuel from their service car in the 458 before the supertest.. :)
Alex, Alex...
Well, nice that someone else post it here.
BTW, you are right. HvS tried to improve the time. Did he made it
I do not know.
Regarding fuel... You are right again. Shell "Ferrari 458 Italia Vintage 2010" indeed...
I hope that everybody understand what means "very, very good" results in my book...
7.38 not bad.1 sec faster then Scuderia in a allrounder better car.
I thought they fill their test cars at the nearest filling station(maybe they did)..possible Ferrari follows the same sayings like some users around here - Non fidarti che i tedeschi
Just teasing
OFFTOPIC:Is that the standard procedure follow by all Manufactures
Leblanc:
Thanks KresoF1 for your reply but i was referring only to the fuel used in the test.
The car manufacturers who test their cars at the Nürburgring generally fill them up at the Nürburgring track operator's own gas station at the "on ramp" to the circuit.
The fact that Ferrari brought its own fuel for the road test would raise the question as to how it differed from "normal" (freely commercially available) pump gas.
fritz
yeah i am sure ferrari 458 needed to cheat to get that result.
Btw, kreso I never commented any comparisons between the 458 and any porsche car, my comments reffered only to sport auo not being god's word that is infalable.
there was only one and a half a cars length between them(~6.5m) at 240kmh(94mps), thats about 0.07s.
p.s. Kreso znam gde je Ostrovica, imam dosta rodjaka u tom delu Hrvatske.
RC:
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that a performance difference of 20 seconds happens because of weather conditions.
May I ask you too: what super sports car do you have in your garage and what past experience do you have with such cars...as a driver of course ? Thank you.
I have no super sport car in my garage, from your profile, neither do you! As for the experiance, I have driven, the scuderia, and 997 gt3. Now let me ask you a quetion, how many minutes off of HvS time was your lap at the NBR. Since you seem to know everything about track performance!
BTW, 20sec diff on a 8min track, is 3-4sec differnce, on normal leinght tracks, and that is easily beacuse off track conditions.
About Rennteam | Help | Terms of use | Privacy Policy | Support | Contact | Imprint | Archive
Powered by
Community
and
