CloseMay 8, 2010 9:38:53 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quTaa7l2Wgo
So according to them the Panamera beats the Aston in every thing but in the end they say no question the Aston is better? 
May 8, 2010 11:46:21 PM
It's a 4 door 2+2 really. I cannot see how the British press try to promote it as an (inferior) Panamera rival.
IMO as a concept and in driving dynamics the Panamera has no real rivals until perhaps the BMW 8 series comes in 2013 and by that time we shall have the Panamera.2 with lots of improvements, I expect. The CLS is too Mercedes to be a credible rival.
--
"Form follows function"
Eunice:
Thanks for the vid.
Letting "desirability factor" beat performance, handling and comfort is like judging the host by his british accent.
Do you think maybe his accent made it harder for him to substitute the more appropriate expression "poseur factor" for what he obviously really meant when he said "desirability factor"? 
fritz
fritz:
Eunice:
Thanks for the vid.
Letting "desirability factor" beat performance, handling and comfort is like judging the host by his british accent.
Do you think maybe his accent made it harder for him to substitute the more appropriate expression "poseur factor" for what he obviously really meant when he said "desirability factor"?
BS
A sedan has NO place on a track and has no use for extreme speed or cornering. Just beyond silly, monty python levels of sillyness. They are both 4 passenger vehicles, no rear bench. 99% of the time the rear passengers will be children. They both have ample room for chilldren. The only performance metric measured of use was the braking at which they were equal.
The 2 most important features for this vehicle class are looks and luxury feel/status - and in those categories it is no contest. If you want a sports car buy one, if you want a beautiful luxury sedan there are many to choose from and the panny does not make the list, thanks to WW.
May 10, 2010 6:39:36 AM
That's your opinion. The Porsche is better build and more comfortable while also being way cheaper! No contest really, and that is not even including the performance which you render useless in this comparison, but which actually will matter to many in this sector.
The 970 has it's flaws in size and design, but it is a true Porsche in that it delivers the performance and built quality that made them successful.
The Rapide on the other hand feels like a quick (read cheap) stretched DB9, which not only makes it look stupid, but also deminishes the DB9. Not that it was ever that much of a performer, how many would be impressed in their DB9 at a light when a family pulls up next to them in a identical more door AM! I think to ask such a price for the AM, given the looks and performance figures is ridiculous.
indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine.. I happen to like both :)
May 10, 2010 6:51:42 AM
Atzporsche:
That's your opinion. The Porsche is better build and more comfortable while also being way cheaper! No contest really, and that is not even including the performance which you render useless in this comparison, but which actually will matter to many in this sector.
The 970 has it's flaws in size and design, but it is a true Porsche in that it delivers the performance and built quality that made them successful.The Rapide on the other hand feels like a quick (read cheap) stretched DB9, which not only makes it look stupid, but also deminishes the DB9. Not that it was ever that much of a performer, how many would be impressed in their DB9 at a light when a family pulls up next to them in a identical more door AM! I think to ask such a price for the AM, given the looks and performance figures is ridiculous.
Well said 
As an M5 owner, performance matters to me, no matter how many doors. The Rapide is a cartoon.
May 11, 2010 12:21:27 PM
I have not driven nor sat in either car so I can not say whether one feels cheap or the other well built. I have seen a panny which only reinforced my opinon of it. At this level people spend money to make themselves happy not to save a buck so price is not a factor. Does a GT2 owner feel diminished when a base carrera pulls up to next to him at a red light?
Neither 1 of these cars would be my first choice for a sedan but if I was restricted to these 2 and had to choose, it would be a quick decision
May 11, 2010 1:44:12 PM
The Panamera Turbo is a much better performer, so this is a no-brainer when it comes to a buying decision. I would never ever pay that kind of money for a car which is inferior in performance (Aston Martin).
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW
If you want to "perform" you drive a pure sportscar ar GT3, scud, or stradale. For all other applications it is the best mix of
1) looks
2) sound
3) feel
for me personally my particular 928 is the best at 1,2,and 3 with the One77 maybe the only thing that would do it as well/better for me. For a sedan I would say
1) looks
2) safety results/ features
3) luxury
4) quietness - least road and wind noise
5) stereo
6) HVAC
0-60 who cares? I am not competing with anyone. Drive kids to school like a GP driver?
So for a sedan my favorites are late 90's full size S-class or an LS460 or maybe the CLS.
May 11, 2010 11:14:06 PM
racerx:
Does a GT2 owner feel diminished when a base carrera pulls up to next to him at a red light?
Does a Passat driver feel diminished when a base Polo pull up? The carrera is NOT advertised as competition to the GT2. Oh I get it, you are saying the AM is a level below the 970. Now you're on to something 
PS spot on with the Audi, I loved that S8 it was way behead of the MB and BMWs for a long time. Even the older one was nicer IMO, understated and performer
indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine.. I happen to like both :)
May 12, 2010 11:56:28 AM
Here is what I have always considered the Best, the ultimate, Sedan. For all time classy looks, size, quality (if you dodged a lemon), convenience and safety features. The best looking S-class ever built before they went narrow and wheel bulgy.
The W220 S600 V12 from about MY2000. This is the car I would have as a sedan to cruise down the highway in comfort and style if I was not in a hurry or had to carry people.
I would take that over any other sedan built since or before, because it has all you could need for features and the best looks.
Very funny review by Clarkson but watch the end to see how this thing looks on the highway.
Racerx I can’t agree with you. While YOU may not want a sedan with good amounts of speed (though an S600 isn’t a slouch) there very obviously IS a market for that type of family car and has been for quite some time (the MB SEL 6.3 & 6.9 in the ‘70’s, the Lotus Omega, M5’s, the Porsche built 500E, all AMG sedans, Audi S6’s, S8’s & RS6’s, CTS-V’s, XJR’s and now the Panamera and Rapide…). Performance is a legitimate variable when looking at all of these cars. And not just straight line performance! While they are not (and don’t have to be) track ready monsters, they by their very nature, have to be more than competent on twisty roads. Driving a 4 door car doesn’t preclude me from driving in a spirited manner…
Exactly the S600 is no slouch!
Because the Panny came out so ugly, everyone wants to focus on the performance with its track times and 0-60 times. If that is your main concern buy a sports car. Horses for Courses. If you want a 4 door sedan for hauling family members or business associates or golfing buddies - you will not be sliding thru corners or flooring the gas pedal. That extreme level of performance is useless, only good for bragging rights.
You will want a beautiful, comfortable, and safe car that is large enough for the task AND also has enough performance ability to be enjoyable. Nothing does that better than the S600 - double glass for sound and temp insulation, airbags everywhere, radar, sensors, stereo, voice controls, .......................................................................................... oh and a big smooth powerful V12. Plus it (the W220) looks the part better than anything else. CLS would be 2nd.
The 2003 w220 had 0-60 of 4.6 plenty fast for me. And the looks for a sedan - timeless like the 928 for a gt.
the W221 interior
Very well said, Mithras. I really wanted the Panamera Turbo as a family car but at 170000 EUR for a car optioned to my liking, I had to pass. Porsche Germany offers now a special lease offer which is very attractive for the Panamera Turbo but when I ordered my BMW X5 M, the new family car, this lease offer wasn't available.
Now I'm actually happy about it because the Panamera isn't just the right car for Germany right now, I don't want to draw too much attention at this moment.
I like the Panamera but I think Porsche would have sold more cars in Europe with a similar visual downsizing like they've done on the Cayenne. Only looks smaller but this really matters over here.
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW
May 16, 2010 9:48:09 AM
The size comparison with the 928 is actually pretty good but if you wanted to do the same with the Golf, I'm not sure you succeeded (this is a Golf Plus). Still wondering...not that I don't like puzzles. 
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW
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