Feb 11, 2010 2:47:21 AM
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Ron (Houston)
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Porsche 911 GT3 R Hybrid Race Car
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Feb 11, 2010 9:18:16 AM
- Spyderidol
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Feb 11, 2010 9:24:07 AM
- ed_moree
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Feb 11, 2010 9:34:57 AM
- Spyderidol
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Feb 11, 2010 12:24:49 PM
- Boxster Coupe GTS
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Re: Porsche 911 GT3 R Hybrid Race Car
911 GT3 R Hybrid Celebrates World Debut in Geneva
Exactly 110 years after Ferdinand Porsche developed the world’s first car with hybrid drive, the Lohner Porsche Semper Vivus, Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG, Stuttgart, is once again taking up this visionary drive concept in production-based GT racing: During the Geneva Motor Show, a Porsche 911 GT3 R with innovative hybrid drive is making its debut, opening up a new chapter in the history of Porsche with more than 20,000 wins in 45 years scored by the extremely successful Porsche 911 in racing trim.
The innovative hybrid technology featured in the car has been developed especially for racing, standing out significantly in its configuration and components from conventional hybrid systems. In this case, electrical front axle drive with two electric motors developing 60 kW each supplements the 480-bhp four-litre flat-six at the rear of the 911 GT3 R Hybrid. A further significant point is that instead of the usual batteries in a hybrid road car, an electrical flywheel power generator fitted in the interior next to the driver delivers energy to the electric motors.
The flywheel generator itself is an electric motor with its rotor spinning at speeds of up to 40,000 rpm, storing energy mechanically as rotation energy. The flywheel generator is charged whenever the driver applies the brakes, with the two electric motors reversing their function on the front axle and acting themselves as generators. Then, whenever necessary, that is when accelerating out of a bend or when overtaking, the driver is able to call up extra energy from the charged flywheel generator, the flywheel being slowed down electromagnetically in the generator mode and thus supplying up to 120 kW to the two electric motors at the front from its kinetic energy. This additional power is available to the driver after each charge process for approximately 6 - 8 seconds.
Energy formerly converted – and thus wasted – into heat upon every application of the brakes, is now highly efficiently converted into additional drive power.
Depending on racing conditions, hybrid drive is used in this case not only for extra power, but also to save fuel. This again increases the efficiency and, accordingly, the performance of the 911 GT3 R Hybrid, for example by reducing the weight of the tank or making pitstops less frequent.
After its debut in Geneva the 911 GT3 R Hybrid will be tested in long-distance races on the Nürburgring. The highlight of this test programme will be the 24 Hours on the Nordschleife of Nürburgring on May 15th and 16th. The focus is not on the 911 GT3 R Hybrid winning the race, but rather serving as a spearhead in technology and a “racing laboratory” providing know-how on the subsequent use of hybrid technology in road-going sports cars.
The 911 GT3 R Hybrid is a perfect example of the Porsche Intelligent Performance philosophy, a principle to be found in every Porsche: More power on less fuel, more efficiency and lower CO2 emissions – on the track and on the road.
- Porsche press release -
Feb 11, 2010 1:18:30 PM
- Spyderidol
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Re: Porsche 911 GT3 R Hybrid Race Car
OK a couple of things that I have learned:
1. According to Autosport: The Williams Formula 1 team has supplied its hybrid power system to Porsche for use in the next generation 911 GT3 road car.
www.autosport.com/news/grapevine.php/id/81402
2. This type of hybrid technology is not permitted under the ACO 2011 LMP engine rules.
Energy recovery systems will be free, provided they respect the following rules:
- Recovery of energy from the brakes on the 4 wheels or from the heat of the exhaust.
- Only the rear wheels can be used to drive the vehicle.
- Electric systems are allowed only to recover energy from the brakes.
- Energy can only be stocked in the form of electricity.
- The car’s minimum weight will be identical to that of the other LM P1s using conventional engine technology (petrol or diesel): 900 kgs.
- The internal combustion engine and the electric motor must be controlled by the driver using the accelerator pedal (push to pass buttons forbidden).
- The quantity of usable energy stocked on board the vehicle must not exceed 1 MJ.
- Installation of systems enabling the power to be controlled at the entry and exit of engines/generators and the energy dissipated on a lap of the circuit at the exit of the motor/generator.
- The ACO will impose its own safety regulations.
So,..........no LMP1 (not with this technology anyway)
Feb 11, 2010 2:55:04 PM
- reginos
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Re: Porsche 911 GT3 R Hybrid Race Car
Spyderidol:
According to Autosport: The Williams Formula 1 team has supplied its hybrid power system to Porsche for use in the next generation 911 GT3 road car.
Could this association with Williams be the beginning of a venture into F1 for Porsche/VW?
It's been reported that the VW Group are looking into F1. What better way than through an established team as engine suppliers at first 
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Feb 11, 2010 3:00:40 PM
- Spyderidol
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Feb 11, 2010 4:02:06 PM
- Ferdie
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Re: Porsche 911 GT3 R Hybrid Race Car
AMS has a detailed article out as well, apart from the above mentioned facts there is to add that the whole system weighst around 130 kg with the energy-storing flywheel itself weighting 40 kg. The two airinlets in front of the rear wheels provide cooling for an oil-to-air intercooler on each side for the storage system. Judging from the pictures, the central airinlet in the front bumper has been increased and mated with the RSR´s airoutlet in the front bonnet.
Supposedly, the car will debut at the Nürburgring VLN races in April.
Feb 11, 2010 4:40:13 PM
- Spyderidol
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Feb 11, 2010 5:59:39 PM
- Joost
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Re: Porsche 911 GT3 R Hybrid Race Car
OK, I understand how the energy is "delivered" by the flywheel to the little electromoters on the front wheels: flywheel spinning, generating electricity, electrcity sent to electromotors -> power to wheels.
But how is the energy from the braking absorbed, and stored into the flywheel? Anybody can explain this?
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Feb 11, 2010 7:10:32 PM
- Boxster Coupe GTS
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Feb 11, 2010 8:05:28 PM
- W8MM
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Re: Porsche 911 GT3 R Hybrid Race Car
Spyderidol:
Also - that flywheel is very, very heavy! It cant do wonders for the handling of the car!!!
The gyroscopic effects on handling interest me as well.
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Re: Porsche 911 GT3 R Hybrid Race Car
Joost:
OK, I understand how the energy is "delivered" by the flywheel to the little electromoters on the front wheels: flywheel spinning, generating electricity, electrcity sent to electromotors -> power to wheels.
But how is the energy from the braking absorbed, and stored into the flywheel? Anybody can explain this?
Under braking electric motors turn in to elec. generators ( load slows the car) and elec. current is sent to flywheels (min. two rotating in opposite direction to cancel each other gyroscopic effect ) which turns into high rpm elec. motors - and reverse . DC motors / generators are reversable - when supplied with elec. current it acts as a motor , when mechanicly driven it is a generator .
Re: Porsche 911 GT3 R Hybrid Race Car
Evo has another article on the car: http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/248170/porsche_911_gt3_r_hybrid.html
Re: Porsche 911 GT3 R Hybrid Race Car
This KERS is interesting and no doubt will add thrust out of a corner, but it will be impulse like. The F1 boys had a hard time adapting to theirs and I understand there will be no KERS in F1 this year.
The other question is the added mass (130Kg) affecting car dynamics and the gyro effect can have interesting dynamic quirks of its own.
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Re: Porsche 911 GT3 R Hybrid Race Car
Thanks guys for the additional explanations. I forgot that the flywheel has to be driven as well.
If I understand correctly, basically, it is two electro motors, one connected to the wheels, the other to the flywheel. Those two are charging each other under different circumstances.
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Re: Porsche 911 GT3 R Hybrid Race Car
Joost:
Thanks guys for the additional explanations. I forgot that the flywheel has to be driven as well.
If I understand correctly, basically, it is two electro motors, one connected to the wheels, the other to the flywheel. Those two are charging each other under different circumstances.
Braking recovers kinetic energy -> spins flywheel storing kinetic energy -> drives electric generator -> drives 2 electrical motors each one driving 1 front wheel.
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Feb 12, 2010 6:41:26 AM
- Spyderidol
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Re: Porsche 911 GT3 R Hybrid Race Car
The weight figures that Ferdie posted have been giving me nightmares! 
I wonder if the quoted 40Kg for the flywheel , really means 40Kg's for the whole flywheel contraption (including casing) and not the flywheel itself.
Much wiser men than I have calculated that the actual flywheel needs to be about 8Kg's in order to generate the 1MJ required to produce the HP quoted.
Can any of the "techies " out there provide any input?
Re: Porsche 911 GT3 R Hybrid Race Car
Joost:
If I understand correctly, basically, it is two electro motors, one connected to the wheels, the other to the flywheel. Those two are charging each other under different circumstances.
There are two motors driving the front wheels, one for each side as shown on the picture further above. Under braking, those motors serve as generators and transfer the energy to the flywheel. I could imagine that they can incorporate a torque-steering function in the future as well. The flywheel device obviously featues another electrical motor that functions as a generator once the kinetic energy is requested.
Spyderidol:
I wonder if the quoted 40Kg for the flywheel , really means 40Kg's for the whole flywheel contraption (including casing) and not the flywheel itself.
Much wiser men than I have calculated that the actual flywheel needs to be about 8Kg's in order to generate the 1MJ required to produce the HP quoted.
Sorry for the misunderstanding, the 40kg should refer to the entire flywheel system incl. the casing. The weight should also be affected by the applicable RPM numbers so without consulting my calculator I´d refer to much smaller numbers as well.
ADias:
This KERS is interesting and no doubt will add thrust out of a corner, but it will be impulse like. The F1 boys had a hard time adapting to theirs and I understand there will be no KERS in F1 this year.
The other question is the added mass (130Kg) affecting car dynamics and the gyro effect can have interesting dynamic quirks of its own.
The components are placed very low in the car, both the flywheel and the motors at the front axle. If one considers the number of passenger laps that are done in RSRs (up to 90 additional kg) on the Nürburgring and the weight penalties some cars had to endure at the VLN and 24h in the past, I do not think that the weight itself will be of an issue. Furthermore, I am not quite certain if this will be the final weight of the entire system. What reasons would Porsche have to give away all of its technical data at this stage?
In F1, the system was applied to the rear wheels for both acceleration and braking, therefore much harder to adapt. In the GT3 hybrid, the system works on the front wheels which experience more dynamic load under braking and will cause (controllable) understeer if the system should be used at the exit of a corner. Furthermore, the GT3 should also feature traction control in which the hybrid system could be incorporated.
Feb 12, 2010 1:18:52 PM
- Spyderidol
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Re: Porsche 911 GT3 R Hybrid Race Car
Thanks Ferdie!
Whilst I continue to be alarmed with the weight figures quoted, I agree that the real truth lies with the Weissach Gods!
You are of course, correct in suggesting that the weight itself will not be so crucial in the VLN, given the weight penalties that the RSR's are currently subjected to.
it is important to note however, that many of the restrictions are imposed with the use of air restrictors, which whilst they are very effective in reducing HP, do not negatively impact on tires and the handling of the car. (contrary to weight)
My main concern is with Le Mans. This system will have to evolve substantially in the year or so before the possible construction of the rumored LMP1, if it is to be usable, as I'm sure Porsche is more than quite aware of that fact.
Anyway - It's wonderful to see a racing laboratory in action.
NB - The ACO rules for hybrids will also have to change. (not impossible ....given past ACO history)
Feb 12, 2010 1:32:45 PM
- Joost
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Re: Porsche 911 GT3 R Hybrid Race Car
I am guessing that the presence of the cayenne in the background is because the cayenne has some other form of Porsche Intelligent Performance?
This because the entire webspecial is not about the GT3R with the KERS, butr about PIP. Placing both cars on that picture implifies that both are "subjected " to PIP...
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Feb 12, 2010 1:34:40 PM
- Ferdie
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Re: Porsche 911 GT3 R Hybrid Race Car
Spyderidol:Thanks Ferdie!
Whilst I continue to be alarmed with the weight figures quoted, I agree that the real truth lies with the Weissach Gods!
You´re welcome! While you are more of an expert there, didn´t Porsche initially used a LM classification with comparatively wide tires and heavy min. weight opposed to Ferrari?
Those components are placed in a way that the 911´s weight balance could significantly benefit from it. I could imagine that there is enough potential to counteract the additional weight in the first place, enabling Porsche to meet the minimum weight even with the hybrid system.
In some years, the leading cars at the 24h Nürburgring had to live with additional weight penalties as well, apart from the reduction of wing size or air restrictors. So, in the long run, this concept could be very promising. The system is obviously created by Williams Hybrid Power, a subsidiary of Williams F1, and used in principle in last years F1 car. This particular concept, driving the front wheels, looks very promising for the 911,despite previous negations from Porsche. I do think that the transition from a flywheel to a accumulator storage system would be less of an issue if the ACO won´t change its rules. 
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