Crown

Just to let you know that I sold my R8, I bought it in november 2007, 25000km, no problems at all, very very good car...

Now comes the time to find out what will be the next (and last before retirement) one...

- Nissan GT-R, I tried one, impressive, not so "class" as the R8, but I like it, much better in live than on pictures. can have one in march, red, black wheels

- 997 Turbo II, but very expensive compared to the Nissan, and 998 is coming

- R8 V10, but twice quite the same car...

I will keep you informed..

In the meantime I ordered a BMW X1 2.3d, to replace my Honda CRV

 How about AM V12 Vantage if you don't mind the extra dollars?

some extra euros...

my very first car was a Triumph TR6 (1974), I promissed myself not to buy an UK car anymore ...and never did

rv997:

my very first car was a Triumph TR6 (1974), I promissed myself not to buy an UK car anymore ...and never did

By coincidence,  I just saw a report on a members survey in the ADAC (largest German national motoring club) magazine today showing that Jaguar has gone from being tenth of about 36 car brands in tems of owner satisfaction back in 2006 to being SECOND!  in 2009. 

On the other hand, the Mini brand went from about 16th. to 32nd. in the same period. 

fritz

Why'd you ditch the R8? Bored? Wanted to try something else.

Frankly, I think the R8 V10 is a waste of time. Might as well go ahead and get the Lambo Gallardo then.

Just my two cents.

...the only thing stopping you in all likelihood, is you!

Hey rev997

I've encountered quite a few GT-R's here, they look massive!

From your list above, I would choose the Turbo.

fritz:

rv997:

my very first car was a Triumph TR6 (1974), I promissed myself not to buy an UK car anymore ...and never did

 

By coincidence,  I just saw a report on a members survey in the ADAC (largest German national motoring club) magazine today showing that Jaguar has gone from being tenth of about 36 car brands in tems of owner satisfaction back in 2006 to being SECOND!  in 2009. 

On the other hand, the Mini brand went from about 16th. to 32nd. in the same period. 

 Frankly, a statistic with results that unstable seems a bit strange... How likely is it that the quality of a car brand (that's the factor this statistic intends to mirror, right?) changes that significantly from one year to the other 

@Heitz : my second car after the TR6 was an Alfa Romeo GT Junior, same opinion : never an italian car after that one, so no lambo nor Ferrari   . Not bored, I just change car every 2 years

for the story the third one was a BMW 323i, and I still buy german cars...

OK, i am kidding, but in these times the quality was very bad, now (but since a few years ago only) it's getting better

@ Joël : quite massive indeed, but impressive...There is a red one with black wheels at Lentz Altzingen, not bad. At least you can go for a trip with some decent luggages with that one, I could even take my dog...

Since I am in the same situation as you my advice is 997.2 Turbo PDK. Simple as that.

with the price of a well equiped Turbo, I can buy a GTR and a Boxster S PDK...but I do not have enough space in my garage

The Mercedes SL63 AMG might also be an option, but that's for old men, no ? 

Kreso, have you tried the GTR ? your impressions ?

I recently went from an '08 Aston Martin Vantage Roadster to an '09 Turbo Cab.  I've loved the switch, with the Turbo delivering just gobs of power and grip that my Aston simply couldn't.  The Aston was definitely a prettier car, but the Porsche Turbo invoked a fair amount of nostalgia for me, being the car I lusted after in my youth.  Lastly, I found that my Vantage seemed like such a smaller car than the Porsche.  No backseat, lower roofline, just seemed a bit small IMHO. 

I haven't driven the GTR, but the stats are indeed impressive (can't beat the price either).  I'm on the fence though about the design.

2009 Porsche Turbo Cab - Cargraphic exhaust, HRE P40's charcoal

The design is indeed quite "special", it had to be a japonese car for Nissan. However the more I see it, the more I like it, it begins to enter in my mind...

I will try the Turbo when available, maybe it will trigger another choice...

rv997:

@Heitz : my second car after the TR6 was an Alfa Romeo GT Junior, same opinion : never an italian car after that one, so no lambo nor Ferrari   .

 

 

Lambos are German  

palenimbus:

rv997:

@Heitz : my second car after the TR6 was an Alfa Romeo GT Junior, same opinion : never an italian car after that one, so no lambo nor Ferrari   .

 

 

 

Lambos are German  

 

Not really. They are being designed, engineered and manufactured in Italy, using some help from Audi in secondary sub-systems. If anything, the R8 V10 is Italian.

 I would go for a sport Sedan i.e. Panamera Turbo, RS6, E63, or the new M5.  If not then save some of your dollars and go for the SLS AMG!!!

REALZEUS:

.... If anything, the R8 V10 is Italian.

Touche !!

rv997:

with the price of a well equiped Turbo, I can buy a GTR and a Boxster S PDK...but I do not have enough space in my garage

The Mercedes SL63 AMG might also be an option, but that's for old men, no ? 

Kreso, have you tried the GTR ? your impressions ?

Yes, I drove GT-R. Fast, not very nice and really big. Size wise I was very supriesed, GT-R is bigger then Audi S5 for example and that makes it too big for true sportscar IMHO.

It is very fast and efficient car. Overall I was  not that impressed. This car feels big when you drive it. Price wise it is tempting but, additional cost may be sky high. I know someone who needed to replace drive shaft in first 4000kms.

Also, resale value will be pretty low IMO.

BUT, if you like it and you are confident about its reliablility then go for it since you can not buy something that fast for little bit more money.

SL63? NO.

KresoF1:

rv997:

with the price of a well equiped Turbo, I can buy a GTR and a Boxster S PDK...but I do not have enough space in my garage

The Mercedes SL63 AMG might also be an option, but that's for old men, no ? 

Kreso, have you tried the GTR ? your impressions ?

Yes, I drove GT-R. Fast, not very nice and really big. Size wise I was very supriesed, GT-R is bigger then Audi S5 for example and that makes it too big for true sportscar IMHO.

It is very fast and efficient car. Overall I was  not that impressed. This car feels big when you drive it. Price wise it is tempting but, additional cost may be sky high. I know someone who needed to replace drive shaft in first 4000kms.

Also, resale value will be pretty low IMO.

BUT, if you like it and you are confident about its reliablility then go for it since you can not buy something that fast for little bit more money.

SL63? NO.

I agree with everything Kreso has said about the GTR. Nice and fast for the money, but the car is huge and resale will be extremely poor.

The SL's in general are a waste of money when bought brand new. You can save yourself a small fortune, by purchasing pre-owned. I learned this after buying 2 of them.

Thanks for the advice Mike ! I was not seriously looking for a MB anyway, I just liked the growl of the V8...and I can have some special rebate on MB (and BMW)

The resale value is important for me as it will be my last sportscar, I guess the Turbo should keep its value within 2-3 years better than the GTR, but we start from much higher...

For the reliability point of view, thinks are going better, Nissan made some improvements in the cooling of the transmission, and of course suppressed the launch control  + reduced the torque when in first gear (and the car still does a 22s from 0 to 1000m...). When I tested the car , I was driving wild in some small roads here in Lux, could play a little bit (but nor that much as there was a "mother in law" near me), and the transmission temp was only 85°C, far away from the 110-120°.

REALZEUS:

Lambos are German  

 

Not really. They are being designed, engineered and manufactured in Italy, using some help from Audi in secondary sub-systems. If anything, the R8 V10 is Italian.

Not quite true but I can understand why Lamborghini dealers/employees like to tell a different story to customers.

All the newer Lambo models, especially the Gallardo and the Murcielago, are actually engineered by Audi with the help and collaboration of the Lambo R&D department. I know this is tough to swallow but...

My first car was a Lancia, my second one a Fiat. NEVER EVER again. Horrible quality, only problems. Cars with a lot of soul and a lot of fun to drive but quality-wise a catastrophy.

I owned three Lancia Delta HF Integrale and had direct access to Lancia R&D department due to my involvement in group N (and for a short time group A) rallye racing. It didn't help much though. I always got my parts exchanged and one time even the whole car but they kept breaking again and again.

My experience with japanese sports cars was similar: technology maybe reliable but at sub-par with the competition. I kept the Toyota R&D department busy for quite a while because they couldn't figure out why my Celica 4WD Turbo brake system was failing(!) from time to time. Simple answer: it got too hot and they installed cooling ducts and special rims from the group N rallye car. Toyota spent a lot of money on my car at that timeIt still wasn't good enough, so I returned it.

So far, Porsche has been the most reliable brand I owned, with some smaller quirks.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

I have to laugh at those of you concerned about the resale of the GT-R.  Maybe the pricing is different to me where you are, but here the GT-R cost $155k, the 997.2 TT cost $365k (both before options).  So if you kept both cars for 3 years, and the GT-R sells for 50% of the value while the 911TT sells for 65% of it's value, you would have lost $77.5k on the GT-R and $128k on the 911TT...

My father, my wife and myself have owned 4 Alfas, 2 FIAT and 1 Lancia. They have all been rubbish in terms of reliability (including trim) and driving (poor ride on difficult surfaces, torque steer, inconsistent braking etc)

That Lamborghini is designed and made with German technology has saved this brand from extinction.

I used to own and drive daily a 20 year old Porsche 911 3.0 SC and it was driving better than the current Alfa 156 of the time.

that's what I said, with the Turbo you start higher, you will loose less (even if I doubt selling it at 65% after 3 years)  in % but more in €€

ach, money...  I always lost money with my cars, but at least this year I lost much less that those who put their money in Leman brothers or other financial companies...and I had some pleasure for my €€

happy to see that I am not the only one suffering from bad experiences with cars made in Italy (and in UK...) 

Are real Italian cars (ie. not Lambo cos they have excellent quality) still lousy quality wise?  Ferrari owners please share your experience relative to say Porsches.  I know from experience that English cars are now pretty good.  My AMV8 never had any issue and my Mini Cooper S was also rock solid...

WAY:

I know from experience that English cars are now pretty good.  My AMV8 never had any issue and my Mini Cooper S was also rock solid...

Mini is owned by BMW so they have to maintain certain standards. However, our MINI Cooper, although generally very good, I believe it would have been better in some areas, if it was actually made by BMW.

AM is under Dr. Bez a top German engineer (ex- BMW Technik and Porsche), so you have to thank him for your nice car!

WAY:

Are real Italian cars (ie. not Lambo cos they have excellent quality) still lousy quality wise?  Ferrari owners please share your experience relative to say Porsches.  I know from experience that English cars are now pretty good.  My AMV8 never had any issue and my Mini Cooper S was also rock solid...

 i read an article in the local newspaper a couple days back that stated that Ferrari was the brand (according to the percentage of cars produced by each manufacturer) that had less reliability issues. followed closely by Lexus. Posche came in at about 6th.

Enmanuel:

WAY:

Are real Italian cars (ie. not Lambo cos they have excellent quality) still lousy quality wise?  Ferrari owners please share your experience relative to say Porsches.  I know from experience that English cars are now pretty good.  My AMV8 never had any issue and my Mini Cooper S was also rock solid...

 i read an article in the local newspaper a couple days back that stated that Ferrari was the brand (according to the percentage of cars produced by each manufacturer) that had less reliability issues. followed closely by Lexus. Posche came in at about 6th.

I read that Porsche has the highest percentage of cars still on road of all ever produced
 

indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 
_____________________________________________________________________
1986 BMW 325e 5spd 2.7L 121 hp (172 lb·ft) Le Mans Blau on Tan leather.
1986 BMW 325is 5spd 2.5L 168 hp (164 lb-ft) White on Tan leather (parted out) 
2005 Ford Focus S, 5spd 2.0L 136 hp (120lb-ft) CD silver on grey (sold)
1986 Porsche 944, 5spd 2.5L 150 hp (168lb-ft) champagne gold on grown leather. (sold)

Atzporsche:

Enmanuel:

WAY:

Are real Italian cars (ie. not Lambo cos they have excellent quality) still lousy quality wise?  Ferrari owners please share your experience relative to say Porsches.  I know from experience that English cars are now pretty good.  My AMV8 never had any issue and my Mini Cooper S was also rock solid...

 i read an article in the local newspaper a couple days back that stated that Ferrari was the brand (according to the percentage of cars produced by each manufacturer) that had less reliability issues. followed closely by Lexus. Posche came in at about 6th.

I read that Porsche has the highest percentage of cars still on road of all ever produced
 

I forgot to say that it was from the number of cars produced annually 

Enmanuel:

WAY:

Are real Italian cars (ie. not Lambo cos they have excellent quality) still lousy quality wise?  Ferrari owners please share your experience relative to say Porsches.  I know from experience that English cars are now pretty good.  My AMV8 never had any issue and my Mini Cooper S was also rock solid...

 i read an article in the local newspaper a couple days back that stated that Ferrari was the brand (according to the percentage of cars produced by each manufacturer) that had less reliability issues. followed closely by Lexus. Posche came in at about 6th.

I think not many Ferraris are driven as a daily driver, so it would be harder to measure their reliability vs. a brand like Lexus.

RC and Reginos: A lot of people in Italy who actually design and build these Lambos are going to be gravely disappointed by your comments. The Murcielago in particular is based on a steel spaceframe and uses a brawny Italian V12, very Lamborghinish indeed! Audi had minimal contribution. The Gallardo had inputs from Audi regarding its aluminium monocoque but the whole design study was done in Sant' Agata. Not to mention that Audi got a grasp of multicylinder, high revving, engine technology after it acquired the italian firm and learnt a thing or two from the experts.