Crown

Looking at 458 and MP4 I think guys from Lamborghini can not sleep well nowadays. Gallardo now seems very dated.

McLaren MP4-12C Powertrain: "Seamless Shift Gearbox"

A unique, Formula-1 inspired McLaren gearbox...

The engine drives the rear wheels through two wet clutches and a McLaren-developed seven speed dual clutch Seamless Shift Gearbox (SSG).

“Relentless, uninterrupted acceleration,” is how McLaren Automotive Managing Director Antony Sheriff describes driving the MP4-12C. The powerful engine, combined with a unique 7-speed dual clutch Seamless Shift Gearbox, gives the 12C its extreme responsiveness and smooth driving dynamics.

The Seamless Shift technology offers variable programmes ranging from ‘normal’ for road use and ‘sport’ for quicker changes still, right up to a lightning quick high performance mode. In addition an ‘automatic’ mode, ‘launch control’ and ‘winter’ modes can be selected, the latter changing all electronic functions to suit low friction conditions and delivering maximum driver aid and support. There is no traditional manual transmission offered; the two pedal layout offered further scope to create a narrow, and therefore light, car.

The 12C’s SSG is a development on the automated and sequential manual gearboxes with paddle shifts that proliferate in the car market today. The character of the transmission will engage even experienced drivers with its responsiveness and its contribution to the whole dynamic package. With minimal torque loss, there is none of the lurch, hesitation or unpredictability that characterise traditional automated-manual transmission systems.

Design of the SSG system was driven by a demanding mechanical package that not only reduced weight and improved dynamic control for the entire vehicle, but also delivered driver benefits.

It is lightweight and compact in design and positioned in exactly the best location. The input shaft lies very close to the output shaft to help position the entire powertrain low in the vehicle. Twin secondary shafts ensure any rear axle weight overhang is minimised and rear crash performance is uncompromised. The bespoke SSG is further complemented by an entirely new control system.

This obsessive attention to detail comes as second nature to McLaren, but is not just there to satisfy the engineers’ passions. McLaren’s designers have also engineered the system to work seamlessly with the driver.

The system reduces weight and benefits packaging targets, but also ensures that driving programmes and shift strategies take the driver’s own inputs and uses them to directly control the engine’s torque and speed to deliver performance, economy or comfort as requested.

Gears are changed using a Formula 1 style rocker shift that pivots in the centre of the steering wheel. It is actuated on either side of the steering wheel (pulling right/pushing left changes up, pulling left/pushing right changes down).

As with the McLaren Formula 1 car, a shift can be actuated either by pulling or by pushing on the rocker. The rocker moves with the steering wheel, rather than being mounted on the steering column, so that if a gearchange is needed while lock is being applied the driver does not have to fumble around to change gear.

The rocker itself incorporates an innovative feature created by McLaren engineers called Pre-Cog. The name stands for pre-cognition, literally ‘foreknowledge’. The rocker on the 12C has two positions with a slightly different haptic (or feel) for each. The driver applies first pressure to the rocker and it informs the gearbox to get ready to swap ratios, thereby saving time – latency – between the message being sent and the gearbox being primed to act. The second pressure confirms that the gear should be changed and the torque handover is completed in milliseconds.

“What Pre-Cog actually does is initiate the shift process by priming the clutch and torque handover – it takes significant time out of the process,” explained Dick Glover, Technical Director McLaren Automotive.

“It’s a little bit like the first pressure on a camera shutter button. There’s no requirement for the driver to use it but it is more satisfying and engaging if you do. The SSG also promotes seamless shifting in which the driver doesn’t have to reduce engine power at all – rather than the gearshift slowing you down, it actually speeds the car up by recovering the energy of the crank spinning as it drops engine speed,” he said.

In practice the latency of the shift is virtually zero, the actual gear change time is very fast and the level of impulse can be varied according to the gearbox mode. Considering that McLaren was the first Formula 1 team to introduce seamless shift gearchanges into motor racing, it was a natural step to develop such a bespoke transmission to its sports car project. 

Compact powertrain for lower centre of gravity

The more weight that can be concentrated low and centrally within a car’s wheelbase, the lower the polar moment of inertia and the better the car’s agility and high-speed cornering performance.

It was this challenge that led us to the MP4-12C’s innovative engine, gearbox and transmission design. Our engineers had the freedom to start form a blank sheet of paper; we weren’t restricted by the legacy of carry-over parts. This allowed us to design compact and lightweight engine, transmission and exhaust systems, all of which help us keep the centre of gravity low.

Unique engine design

The M838T engine has been designed specifically for the 12C. Without the conventional, belt-driven front end, and with a dry sump and flat-plane crankshaft, it has strong performance DNA. Its very compact size (and the intelligent packaging of oil and water pumps) let us place the engine incredibly low down, helping us lower the 12C’s centre of gravity significantly.

More compact transmission

The 12C’s 7-speed, dual-clutch Seamless Shift Gearbox has been designed by McLaren to be compact in all its dimensions. Compared to a conventional transmission, its length is reduced by about 200mm. This has a number of benefits; it allowed us to place it lower down, helping to lower the 12C’s centre of gravity and its polar moment of inertia. It also helped reduce the rear overhang and provide better air flow to the rear diffuser, improving downforce. Its reduced width also means that the length of the rear wishbone is not compromised, essential for maximising mechanical grip and minimising roll when cornering.

The more I read about this car, the more technically impressive it is!  But I don't think I will buy a first year car with so many new tech in an unproven manufacturer of road car (only a handful of the F1 were ever made and not many would have been driven in real world condition unlike this car!)

WAY:

The more I read about this car, the more technically impressive it is!  But I don't think I will buy a first year car with so many new tech in an unproven manufacturer of road car (only a handful of the F1 were ever made and not many would have been driven in real world condition unlike this car!)

I think if you put your letter in now you wouldn't get a car in the first year anyway  Have just dropped them a note though to see how the land lies Well.. be rude not to!!

McLaren MP4-12C Suspension: "Proactive Chassis Control"

Class-leading suspension...

The suspension for the McLaren MP4-12C breaks new ground, offering hitherto unseen levels of roll control and grip.

The car's extreme levels of dynamic handling performance would normally imply a rock-hard ride, but the 12C delivers compliance and ride comfort more akin to an executive saloon car. The mix of occupant cosseting and sporting potential is truly unique. The 12C offers the driver both class-leading ride comfort and class-leading performance.

The 12C is poised and balanced whether negotiating high or low speed corners, during direction changes, under heavy or light braking and on tightening or opening corners.

The suspension is based on double wishbones with coil springs. The dampers are interconnected hydraulically and provide adaptive responses depending on both road conditions and driver preference.

The system features adjustable roll control which replaces the mechanical anti-roll bars that have been a standard feature of road cars since time immemorial. It allows the car to maintain precise roll control under heavy cornering while decoupling the suspension in a straight line for excellent wheel articulation and compliance.

Brake-Steer

Another feature that helps the 12C to handle at a new level is a development of an electronic system used by McLaren’s 1997 MP4/12 Formula 1 car – Brake-Steer. In essence it is a system that brakes the inside rear wheel when the car is entering a corner too quickly to make the desired radius.

Race car handling, saloon-like comfort

The 12C has an almost flat cornering attitude and astonishing levels of lateral grip and traction, but without the rock-hard ride. We’ve replaced the conventional, mechanical anti-roll bar with an adjustable roll control system, which allows the 12C driver to maintain precise control when cornering, while enjoying the ride comfort of an executive saloon car in straight lines.

The 12C remains poised and balanced whether the driver is negotiating high or low speed corners, during direction changes, under heavy or light braking and on tight or open corners.

Driver control

On the 12C’s Active Dynamics Panel in the centre console, the driver can select from three suspension modes. Just as the powertrain can be adjusted, the suspension has three unique modes, which the driver can select to alter the system settings to their preference or driving conditions.

Weight-saving design

The suspension was also the subject of our obsession with keeping weight to a minimum. So to support the dampers, the 12C uses the same hydraulic pump that supports the electro-hydraulic steering system. Why use two pumps when one small and lightweight pump will do?

Innovative suspension for roll control and comfort

The MP4-12C’s Proactive Chassis Control breaks new ground for sports cars. By combining this innovative system with uncompromised geometry and weight distribution, we’ve achieved an optimum balance of class-leading handling and ride comfort.

Finally a great super car concept! I

The car is great and will gice the other competitors in this segment (997 TT.2, 997 GT3 / RS, LP560-4 % LP550-VB,...) a hard time, but in my opinion it's apitty that Mclaren didn't keep the "3seater option" with the driver in the middle! It was kind of a SUP of the McLaren F1 IMHO

sexy !

actually this might just be the car that will convert me to a non 911 person....

then again we don't know what the next gt2 will have in store for us

oh wait, it's VW.....almost forgot that for a second....

so the McLaren might be it......

Rich, any response from McLaren yet as to their availability?

I am starting to get seriously interested in this car, depending on the ultimate pricing I guess.

I agree , this car is appealing and could be a future option buy.

As you have noticed the gear box is DSG.... many of the dye hard 6 speed manual fans  will have to slowly start to come to terms with the fact that manual can not be used efficiently enough on a modern sports car anymore and can be considered as dead.

And they are using another way to put the paddles :  The rocker moves with the steering wheel, rather than being mounted on the steering column, so that if a gearchange is needed while lock is being applied the driver does not have to fumble around to change gear.

Interesting ..but we will see what is the best way.

--
 

 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

Gnil:

I agree , this car is appealing and could be a future option buy.

As you have noticed the gear box is DSG.... many of the dye hard 6 speed manual fans  will have to slowly start to come to terms with the fact that manual can not be used efficiently enough on a modern sports car anymore and can be considered as dead.

And they are using another way to put the paddles :  The rocker moves with the steering wheel, rather than being mounted on the steering column, so that if a gearchange is needed while lock is being applied the driver does not have to fumble around to change gear.

Interesting ..but we will see what is the best way.

 

Well, I do not agree with you. Officially dead is IMHO sequential manuals.

True manuals like 997.2 GT3 or GT3RS, Audi R8 V10, Gallardo LP550-2 will always be a true choice for real(and really skilled) sportscar enthusiast.

Yes, DCTs are coming to sportscar but, they are still again IMHO far from perfection. Do you know the fact that cutches should last as long as gearbox itself? On 500ps/700Nm or 570ps/540Nm cars? They(Porsche and Ferrari) must be kidding really hard with us... Do you really belive that PDK on your car or DCT in 458 will last 100.000km? My bet is NO. So, service cost of DCTs sportscar will be sky high. Sooner or later...

Kreso, mega generalisation there that real and really skilled sportscar enthusiast will always want manual!   I may not be Schumacher, but I am faster and probably more skillful than 95% of people who do track days etc that I have met on the track, many of whom drive the likes of GT3RS and other manually equipped cars.  Me, I prefer twin clutch if I had a choice.  I find it more satisfying to play with balance of the weight through the throttle and brake, racing lines etc than fussing with gear change.  Does this make me less skillful or less of an enthusiast?  Well not the last time I checked.

As for the cost, yes, I think that will be a major cost items for cars that are used as track cars.  Clutch replacement in those DSG (even in Golfs) is gonna cost many many thousands of dollars, if not into the tens of thousands for the more exotic brands.

+1 i agree fith focussing on the best line is more important then being a great shifter.

KresoF1:

Gnil:

I agree , this car is appealing and could be a future option buy.

As you have noticed the gear box is DSG.... many of the dye hard 6 speed manual fans  will have to slowly start to come to terms with the fact that manual can not be used efficiently enough on a modern sports car anymore and can be considered as dead.

And they are using another way to put the paddles :  The rocker moves with the steering wheel, rather than being mounted on the steering column, so that if a gearchange is needed while lock is being applied the driver does not have to fumble around to change gear.

Interesting ..but we will see what is the best way.

 

 

Well, I do not agree with you. Officially dead is IMHO sequential manuals.

True manuals like 997.2 GT3 or GT3RS, Audi R8 V10, Gallardo LP550-2 will always be a true choice for real(and really skilled) sportscar enthusiast.

Yes, DCTs are coming to sportscar but, they are still again IMHO far from perfection. Do you know the fact that cutches should last as long as gearbox itself? On 500ps/700Nm or 570ps/540Nm cars? They(Porsche and Ferrari) must be kidding really hard with us... Do you really belive that PDK on your car or DCT in 458 will last 100.000km? My bet is NO. So, service cost of DCTs sportscar will be sky high. Sooner or later...

The R8 and the Gallardo are only better in manual because the e-gear is not a good gear box. as soon as Audi will offer a proper DCT , I bet there will not be many , if any, manuals sold.

Ok..we can not say manual are dead as they still produce then , but they are not competitive enough anymore. DCT do need more improvement, I totally agree with you ( I am far from real satisfaction from my PDK) , but they will get there.

And I guess I will be one of the first ones to find out about how long the clutch will last on a PDK  I have never had to change the cluch on any of my cars before.......

 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

WAY:

Rich, any response from McLaren yet as to their availability?

I am starting to get seriously interested in this car, depending on the ultimate pricing I guess.

Way,

Had the standard 'thank you for your interest' letter, saying that they've noted my details and will be in touch as more inforamtion becomes available.. and to register at the website.

no further info on time lines, though the smart money seems to be on 2011/2, suppose makes sense as they've got to build the factory first ;) Site is very clsoe to my g/fs place, the planning app looks quite smart.

If you want a contact name though, the guy who got back to me is Dan Barford or their Client Services team.... dan dot barford at mclaren dot com.

I may have  missed something when "speed-reading"  this thread, but I'm surprised nobody commented on the DCT paddles being attached to steering wheel and not the steering column?? 

Also, has anyone heard anything yet as to who (person or company) is responsible for designing and developing the engine for the MP4-12C on McLaren's behalf?

fritz

fritz:

I may have  missed something when "speed-reading"  this thread, but I'm surprised nobody commented on the DCT paddles being attached to steering wheel and not the steering column??

I've noticed that and I don't like it.

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

fritz:

I may have  missed something when "speed-reading"  this thread, but I'm surprised nobody commented on the DCT paddles being attached to steering wheel and not the steering column?? 

Also, has anyone heard anything yet as to who (person or company) is responsible for designing and developing the engine for the MP4-12C on McLaren's behalf?

 

You have missed something in your speed reading  I braught that out in my post....

And the other  difference is also that you can up shift or downship by pushing ot pulling the paddles. Never seen that before. I think attaching it to the column is a bad decision unless the streering does not go more then 180 degrees

--
 

 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

The part that I think is so simple yet so smart is the pre-selection of gear by half pulling the paddles.  One issue twin clutches always had was when you have to downshift.  Because the computer already pre-selected the next gear, it can take quite long to downshift (depending on the situation).  This solution is so simple I'm surprised no one else has thought of it!

intouch1:

+1 i agree fith focussing on the best line is more important then being a great shifter.

 

What's wrong with learning to do both?

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 98 Ferrari 550 Maranello.  Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2

Why not go back to starting it by hand, cranking in front. ^^ 

title says it all

http://obsoleteskills.wikispot.org/Hand_crank_a_car_to_start_it

racerx:

Why not go back to starting it by hand, cranking in front. ^^ 

 title says it all

 http://obsoleteskills.wikispot.org/Hand_crank_a_car_to_start_it

Some day (not too far off), technology will allow all operations of the car to be computer controlled and the driver will be totally obsolete (just need to be a passenger).  I suppose you're ok with that?  I like plenty of obsolete things (my TV is an HD CRT, my music comes from vinyl records, my amplifiers use vacuum tubes, my car doesn't have traction control, ABS or power brakes, etc.).  Just because something is obsolete, doesn't mean it isn't better or more enjoyable to use...
 

BTW, I also noticed this car uses an electronic LSD (like BMW in non-M cars and Porsche in models without optional mechanical LSD).  I suppose a mechanical LSD is obsolete (and not as good) now too?

--
 

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 98 Ferrari 550 Maranello.  Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2

spotted @ ring for new testing

www.carmagazine.co.uk/Secret-new-cars/Search-Results/Spyshots/McLaren-MP4-12C-the-Airbrake-in-action/

I like that airbrake - I bet it works great - makes other systems seem obsolete by comparison (just teasing - I think it is genuinely very impressive).

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 98 Ferrari 550 Maranello.  Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2

Grant:

Some day (not too far off), technology will allow all operations of the car to be computer controlled and the driver will be totally obsolete (just need to be a passenger).  I suppose you're ok with that?  I like plenty of obsolete things (my TV is an HD CRT, my music comes from vinyl records, my amplifiers use vacuum tubes, my car doesn't have traction control, ABS or power brakes, etc.).  Just because something is obsolete, doesn't mean it isn't better or more enjoyable to use...
 

 

As long as the driver is in CONTROL of speed and direction of the vehicle, that is all that matters. 

A well designed auto or a paddle shifter is the best for gear changing. 100% Concentration on the road and speed is the purpose not some arcane movement of the feet and hands that contribute nothing to speed or direction.

It also is more enjoyable when you can spend more of your mental energy on enjoying the input from the view and g-forces. Kinda like the difference between filming an event or just watching the event.

racerx:

Grant:

Some day (not too far off), technology will allow all operations of the car to be computer controlled and the driver will be totally obsolete (just need to be a passenger).  I suppose you're ok with that?  I like plenty of obsolete things (my TV is an HD CRT, my music comes from vinyl records, my amplifiers use vacuum tubes, my car doesn't have traction control, ABS or power brakes, etc.).  Just because something is obsolete, doesn't mean it isn't better or more enjoyable to use...
 

As long as the driver is in CONTROL of speed and direction of the vehicle, that is all that matters. 

Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.  Someday you'll be driving a car with a joystick and I'll still be using arcane technology.  Let's hope we'll both be happy doing it 

--

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 98 Ferrari 550 Maranello.  Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2

I don't think a joystick was on the 928 options list, but I wish a 7 speed paddle shifted tranny was. 

 A couple of observations.

The styling of the car with wide side vents make it appear stubby. 

The push/ pull paddles on the steering column seems dangerous to me. Shifting inadvertently (easy to do with push/pull) while in a sharp turn could unsettle the car and possibly lead to lose of control. The fact that F1 drivers use it does not necessarily mean amateurs can safely use the technology.

With all the state of the art technology, the McLaren will need excellent support service centers. I don't see that happening anytime soon as least in the US.