Crown

As I visited the official Panamera presentation event at my local german Porsche dealer, I wanted to share my personal impressions and the opinion of some other Porsche customers and potential buyers with you.

There were a lot of people at the event, surprising, even for my local dealer. He sent out lots of invitations but he didn't really expect that many people to actually show up.

Whenever Porsche presents a completely new model, people seem to be excited and interested, so this definetely was the case with the Panamera too.

Three Panamera models, the S, the 4S and the Turbo, were placed on some sort of podium, all three cars were black. I can only speculate why they placed the cars on the podium but although my wife thought of a haute couture catwalk, I was rather thinking of a very clever marketing coup. With the Panamera standing higher, the hunchback was gone, I wasn't able to spot it at all. Some people may call this a coincidence, I call this clever marketing. Another clever thing: all three cars were pretty low, at least lower than I remember from my last testdrive. Another coincidence?!

I started to roam around and to listen to what people had to say about the Panamera. It was actually pretty interesting, most people seemed to be impressed with the look but especially with the very classy interior. Unfortunately this enthusiasm came to a stop when it came to actually thinking about buying or leasing the Panamera. Most people I listened and talked to found the Panamera to be huge, almost gigantic. Some people didn't like the huge size of the car but also didn't like the small trunk. Others liked the size of the car but were complaining about the missing third seat in the rear.

Overall, a majority of the people seemed to like the Panamera but for most of them, the price doesn't seem to be right. Not many people would have gone for the Turbo but even the S or 4S were pretty expensive for most of them. A Panamera Turbo for 160000 EUR? An older woman told me that Porsche must have gone completely nuts. 

The superlong option list also made some people angry, one man told me that he added 40000 EUR in options to his "fantasy" Panamera S and that this is just too much for him.

Many people liked the Panamera but not many actually ordered one, at least not during this event. It is interesting to hear from people that they like the Panamera but they felt offended by the very long option list, the very high base prices and the huge size of the Panamera.

One customer, he owns a large transport company in my region, told me that he wouldn't dare driving in this "colossus" to his office because it is just too "here I come" looking. He drives a Mercedes S-class and according to his words, this is almost "too much" too.

My kids also like the Panamera, my son actually likes it more than the Cayenne. My wife however was shocked when she saw the price tag on the Panamera Turbo, she immediately turned away and told me with a very firm voice "we're getting the new Cayenne Turbo when it is available". I'm not sure I like this idea since the Panamera Turbo started to grow on me but one thing is for sure: I can't afford to spend 160000 EUR on a family car, no way. I'm also worried about what my customers would say because I heard the words "huge", "gigantic" and "monster" way too often during my conversations about the Panamera.

Speaking of money: I had the luck and honor to talk to Porsche's South Germany marketing boss during this event. When I asked him why the Panamera is so expensive, he told me that this actually was a marketing decision, to place the Panamera, model-wise, "above" the Cayenne. I told him that I think it was a mistake but he seemed to be pretty confident that Porsche made the right decision. When I asked him about generous rebates for the Panamera, similar to the rebates other limousine selling companies like BMW, Mercedes or even Maserati offer, he smiled and told me "no way". Apparently the Panamera won't make Porsche dealers too happy because the margin has stayed the same or is even worse, so there won't be much room for huge rebates.

Lease offers shouldn't be too good either: the Panamera Turbo on display was offered for a whopping 3000 EUR for a 36 months lease without down payment. Ouch.

That said, I think the Panamera isn't the right product for me but I really started to like it. I'm not sure if the Panamera is the right product for Europe either but time will tell. This car is huge indeed and it looks very massive and impressive. Maybe this is what Porsche wanted but I'm not sure this is what Porsche customers want.

In the end, I think that especially the Panamera S and the future models below it will make their way around European customers, the Panamera Turbo will very likely stay a very exotic car over here, it is simply too expensive.

Here are two photos from the event, enjoy.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

RC,

Thanks for the detailed report.  It was very interesting.

I can easily see how lots of Europeans would think that the Panamera is a very large car compared to their expectations for Porsche.  I can only wonder how the mythical "full sized" American sedan like a Ford Crown Victoria would be regarded.  My limited driving experience in Germany and environs leads me to imagine that driving a Crown Vic in city centers would be a very tedious task and finding anyplace one could park on the street would be problematic.

In the USA, however, the Panamera is not all that large.  In some ways it won't be large enough for some traditional American family uses.  Here, the Hummer is not really too large, and the ill-fated Ford Excursion was the only SUV widely regarded as "maybe" too large.  Ford sold quite a few of them.  The cost of petrol consumption is the ONLY reason the Excursion was not more popular with Americans.  We don't seem to suffer from politically correct size-embarrassment.

After telling someone here about my Panamera test drive, one of the more interesting questions I repeatedly get is, "Does it have enough room in the back seat?"  Most European car brands sold in the USA have developed an unfortunate reputation for poor accommodations in rear seating.  The rear seating room in my Arnage is barely able to carry off "luxurious" as a description for my circle of acquaintances.  I think that when the interior capacity is appreciated along with the car's handling abilities, Americans will hold the Panamera in high regard.

I am eagerly anticipating a chance to test-fit my favorite piece of Tumi luggage into the hatch space to see how it goes in with the rear seats in the passenger position. 

That will be the acid test for me;  Is it big enough?

Mike

2005 Carrera GT - Signal Yellow

2008 Tesla Roadster - Thunder Gray

1972 BMW 3.0 CSi - Nachtblau

2009 Bentley Arnage T - Black Saphire

I think the marketing has made the right decision to price it higher than the Cayenne because they will sell not that many Panamera so you might as well get as much money as possible on each sale.

Again, as RC post says, it looks like the combination of a rather big car but only 4 seats and small trunk will reduce sales dramatically, especially if you can buy a Cayenne for 15-20% less.

Great pic of your son and high tech looking dealership. I don't understand how you can be one of those "growing on me people".

I took this the other day, the best looking "full size" german sedan on the market, really impressive in person, nothing odd about it.

Thanks for the comprehensive report, RC

As for the size: of course the Panamera appears huge compared to the Porsche sportscars, but after all it's a limousine. In my local PZ they had parked an S-Class and a 7-series next to the Panamera for demonstration purposes. The Panamera looked "small" in comparison to the S-class and the roofline is remarkable low for a limousine (compared to both, S-class and 7-series).

I felt comfortable in the rear seat (I'm 1.85 m), though the leg room certainly doesn't compare to a 750 iL or a stretched limo. It's not like on a sofa in the rear, more like a "second row" sportscar feeling - very unique. I guess older people won't appreciate the rear seats too much - not because of the seats, but because of the entry/access to the seats. It's more like climbing into a sportscar, not like "walking" into a big sedan without taking the hat off 

They had a Platinum Silver / Espresso Brown Turbo and a Basalt / Black 4S on display. The Turbo (with options for 35 k€ ) made a very luxurious impression - top notch interior with a lot of attention given to all the details.

Will be interesting to experience the drive feel of the car. One of the mechanics (die-hard GT3 fan / track junkie) told some miracle stories from the Leipzig track...

I really wonder if it will keep its value in the second hand market. I really doubt about it. The price is indeed ridiculous.

I have returned from Europe to the U.S. after two years abroad, and was expecting everyone in my neighborhood to have green, economy sized cars as a result of the economic crisis here.  I was surprised to see even more SUV's, minivans and large sedans than before.  On my street alone there are two Mercedes S class sedans, a new supercharged Land Rover, a Mercedes E class, two new Acura MDXs, a Lexus SUV, and three minivans.  I am no longer  worried about how my Cayenne will fit in when it arrives from Germany.  To reverse the old cliche, size does not matter here.

My neighborhood has lots of families, and I can understand the appeal of a larger car.  Bikes, book bags, skate boards, baby seats, grocery bags, baseball bats, etc.--combine them with parents who are sick of getting out of cramped smaller cars and you have a true larger car market segment.  Cap that off with a belief that larger cars are safer than smaller cars in a crash, and you have a lasting appeal going on. 

Regarding the Panamera, it will certainly not be perceived as huge here.  In the Washington DC area, and other larger eastern U.S. cities, the streets are filled with limos, large SUVs, big BMWs, Audis and Mercedes.  But the Panamera price is another matter.  I certainly question whether a luxury sedan or SUV owner will switch to a higher priced, albeit more sporty, Panamera.

 Thanks for the repost RC, very detailed info. Nice pic of your kid in the car, seems like he approves. but i do agree waiting for a Cayenne turbo, would be a wiser decision IMO. 

 Thanks for the report RC.

I had been also at the dealer presention. Very nice, they had it outside at a driving training centre. 

So they presented the car inside...1 panamera turbo, 1 panamera S  and 1 panamera 4S. 2 cars had been black, one was in one of the darker brown tones.... after seeing the 970 now several times in real,  I recognized that the  appearance varies by colour.  

IMO....in silver or luxorbeige, the car looks heavy. In white,darker colors or colors with reflexion (yachting blue) the cars looks better...not that heavy. Thats the physical difference between a good and over time working design and a genius style like the 997, which looks gorgeous in ny colour. 

Anyway and most important. On the circuit and outside on open roads, we had been invited to try the cars (17 panameras where there for driving). The feel inside, the interieur is simply stunning....in that category, none limo can match with panamera. The driving feel, how you sit and what you see and feel, is definitely sportscar. I tested the 4S with PSE, sounds good...allthough inside you have actively to listen for the sound to recognize it. 

Honestly I just drove 20 minutes....the motor, suspension and brakes feel good and strong on first impression....motor is as you know it from Cayenne. vey nice, powerful V8 with enough torque. Sadly....its not a race egine like BMWs V10 in M5 or V8 in M3....both I really like! 

My take away is....fantastic sports sedan, very unique. As sad, with a stunning interior. Would I buy it...yes or now....not sure yet. I share RCs comment on the pricing. If I want the options I expect from a sporty car (suspension....PSE...some in and outside goodies), the Panamera 4S easily ends at € 140k....with already some reductions and without PCCB! 

I will think about it....

 I was at my dealer presentation last Thursday here in Trier.  Surprised at how many people showed up to the late night event, hell surprised I even went!  Having seen the car already in the Spring it was of no surprise to me as far as the dimensions and power but finally getting to touch and feel all the bits of the interior left me feeling a bit of mixed emotions.  Like stated above the cars seats all around are more sporty feeling rather than luxury cruising.  For me I'm only 69" tall and so while the rear seats do grab you I think on a long ride the rear can be uncomfortable.  I'm not even sure why there is a tilt to the rear back rest as it doesn't tilt far enough to make a difference.   I too did find the interior well made with great feel and fit and leaves you with the impression of a classy purpose built car.

Also I was disappointed in the trunk space.  Hell for four people it's enough space for a long weekend getaway but nothing I don't think for a serious road trip with souveneirs along the way.

The dealer had all the models present as well.  A thing I dislike personally is the rear decklid emblems.  Why is there so much writing on the back of these?!!?  I don't need it to say "PORSCHE Panamera S/4S/Turbo"  It should just be Panamera XXX.  Having the Porsche script going across is redundant and obnoxious in my opinion.

Overall there were mixed emotions from the crowd as well.  I remember one fellow saying (non German national) that although he liked the car he would never buy one.  The price point and the dated design/fuel ratings left him scratching his head.  He figured for a car of this caliber that Porsche could/should have pulled off better fuel ratings.

Regarding "fuel ratings/saving", I heard many comments as well. It is a little bit surprising though because most of the people who showed up at the event were driving Cayenne or other SUVs, so fuel consumption shouldn't really be an issue.

Apparently Europeans and especially Germans are very concerned about fuel consumption but from my personal experience, it is mainly because of cost and not the environment. It is surprising to see how "cheap" many of my german con-patriots can be when they buy a 150000 EUR car and start worrying about fuel consumption. I never understood this, honestly but of course I wouldn't mind it either if my Cayenne Turbo S would eat a couple of liters less than it does right now. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

It is surprising to see how "cheap" many of my german con-patriots can be when they buy a 150000 EUR car and start worrying about fuel consumption

You should know it better ... it is a matter of social acceptance ... not a money issue.

Cheers

Tom