Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc. - Page10

Sep 5, 2009 11:14:09 AM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: PorSchelover1

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

PorSchelover1:

but Which are the performance dates of 458?

IN MY OPINION!!!

0-200km/h? MAYBE 10,8?

0-300km/h? MAYBE under 30s? is possible?

I would expect performance to be on the GT2 level (i.e. 0-300 ca. 33s, maybe a bit faster than GT2 up to 200kph due to dual-clutch gear-box). Why? Based on our direct comparisons of GT2 and Scuderia I would expect that the additional 60hp should be sufficient to close the small performance gap between GT2 and 458 (I am talking of straight-line acceleration here, of course).

Thus:

0-200: 10.8s (maybe 10.7, maybe 10.9)

0-300: 33s

Smiley

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Sep 5, 2009 11:24:34 AM

PorSchelover1: Co-Pilot; Loc: Brazil , Brazil; Posts: 224, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 17, 2007; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

MKSGR:

PorSchelover1:

but Which are the performance dates of 458?

IN MY OPINION!!!

0-200km/h? MAYBE 10,8?

0-300km/h? MAYBE under 30s? is possible?

I would expect performance to be on the GT2 level (i.e. 0-300 ca. 33s, maybe a bit faster than GT2 up to 200kph due to dual-clutch gear-box). Why? Based on our direct comparisons of GT2 and Scuderia I would expect that the additional 60hp should be sufficient to close the small performance gap between GT2 and 458 (I am talking of straight-line acceleration here, of course).

Thus:

0-200: 10.8s (maybe 10.7, maybe 10.9)

0-300: 33s

Then no chances for the 997TT PDK is correct ?

Will be the first time in the history the Ferrari is more fast of the Turbo in the same generation!!!

993TT vs F355 - 993TT is more fast

996TT vs F360 - 996TT is more fast

997TT vs F430 - 997TT is more fast

but now

997TT PDK MKII vs 458 -

--

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Sep 5, 2009 11:37:53 AM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: PorSchelover1

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

I would expect the 997TT Mk2 to do 0-300 in about 37s.

However, all these small differences don't matter that much in the end. In real life it is nearly impossible to overtake a car that does 0-300 in let's say 37s with another car that does 0-300 in 33s... You would need a very clear Autobahn (usually impossible to find) and tons of patience to accomplish that...

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Sep 5, 2009 12:20:22 PM

arakis: Pilot; Loc: Belgrade,Serbia , Serbia and Montenegro; Posts: 302, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 30, 2004; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

the 0-300 is more about drag then about hp, we dontknow its drag coef jet but i expect it to be significatly lower then 430, around 0.29 - 0.3 mark i guess. And if it is as low as that i woudnt be suprised if it ran from 0-300 below 30s, 0-200 below 10 for sure.,

BTW IMHO it will out excelerate the gt2 easily, It has a torquier and more powerfull engine. Because you have two engines that run on different speeds u have different drive ratios thus more torque for higher rpm.

GT2 red line 6750, 458- 9000 => torque equation (9000/6750)*540 = 720 NM if compared to the gt2's 680

or you could (6750/9000) * 680 = 510 Nm if compared to 458's 540

simple bycicle phisics, biger sproket smaler sprocket thiing, if you spin a smaller sprocket fasster, the bigger sprocket is proportionaly slower but also has proportionaly mor torque, that is why hp is derived from "torque and rpm", and is the only figure that coul be directly comparable

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Sep 5, 2009 12:24:46 PM

REALZEUS: Expert; Loc: UK and Greece , United Kingdom; Posts: 1611, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 24, 2008; Reply to: PorSchelover1

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

PorSchelover1:

MKSGR:

PorSchelover1:

but Which are the performance dates of 458?

IN MY OPINION!!!

0-200km/h? MAYBE 10,8?

0-300km/h? MAYBE under 30s? is possible?

I would expect performance to be on the GT2 level (i.e. 0-300 ca. 33s, maybe a bit faster than GT2 up to 200kph due to dual-clutch gear-box). Why? Based on our direct comparisons of GT2 and Scuderia I would expect that the additional 60hp should be sufficient to close the small performance gap between GT2 and 458 (I am talking of straight-line acceleration here, of course).

Thus:

0-200: 10.8s (maybe 10.7, maybe 10.9)

0-300: 33s

Then no chances for the 997TT PDK is correct ?

Will be the first time in the history the Ferrari is more fast of the Turbo in the same generation!!!

993TT vs F355 - 993TT is more fast

996TT vs F360 - 996TT is more fast

997TT vs F430 - 997TT is more fast

but now

997TT PDK MKII vs 458 -

997TT faster in a straight line than the F430? I think not sir! 1/4 Mile time for the Ferrari: 11.7s (http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/download/0501_ferrari_data_panel.pdf)
and for the Porsche 12.3s (http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=7&article_id=3778). Clocked by the same magazine. Unfortunately, I do not have any tests between the F355, F360 and 993TT, 996TT.

--
FERRARI RULES!!!

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Sep 5, 2009 12:37:31 PM

arakis: Pilot; Loc: Belgrade,Serbia , Serbia and Montenegro; Posts: 302, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 30, 2004; Reply to: REALZEUS

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

exacly, the

993 tt vs 355 => 993 way faster

996 tt vs 360 => 996 a little faster

997 tt vs 430 => 430 same or faster

997.2 vs 458 => 458 way faster

so when is 998 or 991 tt coming out

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Sep 5, 2009 1:58:58 PM

JoeRockhead: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Topside , Monaco; Posts: 8033, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 17, 2007; Reply to: Rossi

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

Rossi:

JoeRockhead:

... and the wheels look fantastic.

So which one does look better?

I think the car looks the best with these wheels. The 16M wheels show TOO much of the rotor, almost where the rotor becomes the focal point.

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Sep 5, 2009 2:53:01 PM

PorSchelover1: Co-Pilot; Loc: Brazil , Brazil; Posts: 224, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 17, 2007; Reply to: arakis

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

arakis:

exacly, the

993 tt vs 355 => 993 way faster

996 tt vs 360 => 996 a little faster

997 tt vs 430 => 430 same or faster

997.2 vs 458 => 458 way faster

so when is 998 or 991 tt coming out

F430 vs 997TT

http://www.fastestlaps.com/index.php?page_id=compare&car1=45857713d06da&car2=4585844a79f19

and i have a F430 2008, Ferrari is very cool car, but in rolling start in 2º gear 60/80km/h to 5/6º gear 280/300km/h with 997TT stcok, in the real life NO CHANCES for F430!!!!

but now maybe 458 way faster

--

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Sep 5, 2009 3:04:22 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: arakis

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

arakis:

the 0-300 is more about drag then about hp, we dontknow its drag coef jet but i expect it to be significatly lower then 430, around 0.29 - 0.3 mark i guess. And if it is as low as that i woudnt be suprised if it ran from 0-300 below 30s, 0-200 below 10 for sure.,

BTW IMHO it will out excelerate the gt2 easily, It has a torquier and more powerfull engine. Because you have two engines that run on different speeds u have different drive ratios thus more torque for higher rpm.

GT2 red line 6750, 458- 9000 => torque equation (9000/6750)*540 = 720 NM if compared to the gt2's 680

or you could (6750/9000) * 680 = 510 Nm if compared to 458's 540

simple bycicle phisics, biger sproket smaler sprocket thiing, if you spin a smaller sprocket fasster, the bigger sprocket is proportionaly slower but also has proportionaly mor torque, that is why hp is derived from "torque and rpm", and is the only figure that coul be directly comparable

Please forgive me but your logic would imply that the 458 is worlds ahead of the Scuderia in terms of acceleration performance... I simply don't think this is likely. I am basing my statements on real life comparisons of Scuderia and GT2. Not pure mathematics. I am pretty sure that my assumptions are valid Smiley

BTW, your above calculations disregard rather key factors like gearing, shape of torque curve etc.

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Sep 5, 2009 4:42:31 PM

arakis: Pilot; Loc: Belgrade,Serbia , Serbia and Montenegro; Posts: 302, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 30, 2004; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

well no they do not, that is a spmple equation on how the power will be deliverd to the road if you had two cars identical with different engines and final gears, Off coarse I cannot calculate resistances for drivetrain, but they are rather insignificent maybe +- 2% between porsche and ferrari.

the torque curve of the 458 is quite impresive it has 80% of its torque at 3500 rpm witch is verry impresive, since you will not see below 5000 rpm in acceleration other then 1st gear. and comparison of the gt2 and the scuderia are that they have verry simmilar accel, and the 458 will out accel the 430 scuderia by a huge margin, I ts shape was designe only to cut down the drag numbers, and the torque and power are a huge iprovment, along with the dct its gonna be insane

as for the performance, they are claimin what 3.4 for 0-100 and they claimed 3.6 (same on ams test) sec they claim 11.6 tested 11.2 ams

its safe to say 3.4 on the test so thats 0.2 just there its already below 11, and if factor that 360 cs needed 13.6 with 420hp and that f430 scud got to 11.2 with 510 I'd say its safe to asume a 0-200 figure of 10sbelow , as for the 0-300 there is no way of knowing, and there are no real life implementations of this, but if they get, and i did say if, drag down to 0.3 compared to 0.34 of the scud, it is posible to go below 30s easily

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Sep 5, 2009 4:54:15 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: arakis

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

arakis:

its safe to say 3.4 on the test so thats 0.2 just there its already below 11, and if factor that 360 cs needed 13.6 with 420hp and that f430 scud got to 11.2 with 510 I'd say its safe to asume a 0-200 figure of 10sbelow , as for the 0-300 there is no way of knowing, and there are no real life implementations of this, but if they get, and i did say if, drag down to 0.3 compared to 0.34 of the scud, it is posible to go below 30s easily

As said, I consider this extremely unlikely Smiley However, if it is true I would also be fine as I have a contract for a 458 delivery in Q1/Q2-2010 Smiley

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Sep 5, 2009 6:33:00 PM

REALZEUS: Expert; Loc: UK and Greece , United Kingdom; Posts: 1611, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 24, 2008; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

MKSGR:

arakis:

the 0-300 is more about drag then about hp, we dontknow its drag coef jet but i expect it to be significatly lower then 430, around 0.29 - 0.3 mark i guess. And if it is as low as that i woudnt be suprised if it ran from 0-300 below 30s, 0-200 below 10 for sure.,

BTW IMHO it will out excelerate the gt2 easily, It has a torquier and more powerfull engine. Because you have two engines that run on different speeds u have different drive ratios thus more torque for higher rpm.

GT2 red line 6750, 458- 9000 => torque equation (9000/6750)*540 = 720 NM if compared to the gt2's 680

or you could (6750/9000) * 680 = 510 Nm if compared to 458's 540

simple bycicle phisics, biger sproket smaler sprocket thiing, if you spin a smaller sprocket fasster, the bigger sprocket is proportionaly slower but also has proportionaly mor torque, that is why hp is derived from "torque and rpm", and is the only figure that coul be directly comparable

Please forgive me but your logic would imply that the 458 is worlds ahead of the Scuderia in terms of acceleration performance... I simply don't think this is likely. I am basing my statements on real life comparisons of Scuderia and GT2. Not pure mathematics. I am pretty sure that my assumptions are valid

BTW, your above calculations disregard rather key factors like gearing, shape of torque curve etc.

Rolling starts tend to favour engines with mid range punch, i.e. turbo engines. If you were to do a rolling start, you would need to be in 1st gear at 60 km/h with the Ferrari in order to be "in the power". Then the heavier and less powerful 997TT would be left behind. You just need to rev the hell our of the Fezza.

--
FERRARI RULES!!!

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Sep 5, 2009 8:47:04 PM

arakis: Pilot; Loc: Belgrade,Serbia , Serbia and Montenegro; Posts: 302, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 30, 2004; Reply to: REALZEUS

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

here is a torque curve comparison between the F430 and 458, info recoverd from ferrari.com

458 is the red line based from here 458 torque curve.bmp

as you can see its very rough sketch but its a good draft

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Sep 5, 2009 9:09:30 PM

mv: Senior; Loc:; Posts: 519, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 8, 2004; Reply to: arakis

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

Some rumours :

0-200km/h < 10,5s

"straight-line performance similar to 599 or even slightly better"

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Sep 5, 2009 10:04:43 PM

arakis: Pilot; Loc: Belgrade,Serbia , Serbia and Montenegro; Posts: 302, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 30, 2004; Reply to: mv

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

here is 599 strait line performance

0-100 km/h	3.5 seconds
0-160 km/h	6.8 seconds
0-200 km/h	10.3 seconds
0-300 km/h	29.9 seconds

the 599 has a drag coef of 0.34, 1700kg, but also 40hp more along with 60NM,

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Sep 6, 2009 7:43:27 AM

REALZEUS: Expert; Loc: UK and Greece , United Kingdom; Posts: 1611, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 24, 2008; Reply to: arakis

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

That Enzo super-engine, even in detuned guise and with all the bulk of the 599 against it, works miracles!!! I wonder how fast the successor of the 599 will be, not to mention the next Enzo...

--
FERRARI RULES!!!

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Sep 6, 2009 5:15:16 PM

MKW: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Palo Alto and North Lake Tahoe , United States; Posts: 2491, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 22, 2002; Reply to: arakis

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

arakis:

exacly, the

993 tt vs 355 => 993 way faster

996 tt vs 360 => 996 a little faster

997 tt vs 430 => 430 same or faster

997.2 vs 458 => 458 way faster

so when is 998 or 991 tt coming out

Internet bench racing -gotta love it.

With escalating test track numbers , in ten years the bragging will be like this :

1) " the Ferrarri acceleration tore BOTH my retina "

2) " big deal - my Porsche tore both my retina and broke my neck on lateral g's "

3) " big deal , for the best bang for the buck , my Corvette did that and ruptured my aortic aneurysm , to boot "

Smiley

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Sep 7, 2009 8:35:46 AM

c4c: Co-Pilot; Loc: North , Portugal; Posts: 223, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 14, 2004; Reply to: MKW

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

Smiley

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Sep 7, 2009 8:50:05 AM

andrea: Rennteam Master; Loc: Italy, Pordenone , Italy; Posts: 3569, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 24, 2003; Reply to: c4c

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

Ferrai claims 0-1000mt 20,6s

--
Dedi La vita è troppo corta per non guidare italiano.....

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Sep 8, 2009 2:04:11 AM

Silver Bullet: Veteran; Loc: Canada; Posts: 1126, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 24, 2004; Reply to: andrea

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

Did I read that right? No manual transmission: only dual clutch F1 transmission available?

--
"Rational arguments don't work on religious people, otherwise there'd be no religious people."-House

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Sep 8, 2009 6:59:45 AM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12681, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: Silver Bullet

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

Silver Bullet:

Did I read that right? No manual transmission: only dual clutch F1 transmission available?

It currently looks like this.

--

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

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Sep 8, 2009 3:57:33 PM

Gnil: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: VD, Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 14174, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 11, 2005; Reply to: Silver Bullet

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

Silver Bullet:

Did I read that right? No manual transmission: only dual clutch F1 transmission available?

I'm afraid you will have to get used to more and more of these kind of settings. To achieve this kind of performance + to have better and better fuel consumption and + fuel emissions + be user friendly + allow as many settings as one chooses to come up with , a DCT is the only way they can meet these goals.

--

997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

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Sep 8, 2009 4:26:09 PM

SciFrog: Rennteam VIP; Loc: USA , United States; Posts: 9870, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 15, 2005; Reply to: Gnil

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

Engine will be mapped to the characteristics to the dual clutch transmissions also. This is the future, there is no coming back.

Don't get me wrong, I love manual, my 612 is one of the rare manual. But manual will be restricted the GT3 and Lotus...

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Sep 9, 2009 11:39:09 PM

Nick_Athens: Senior; Loc: Greece , Greece; Posts: 710, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 23, 2004; Reply to: SciFrog

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

hello! uplad 4 pictures cause i am tired... car is soo nicer in real than photos...

--
F430 Spider. 997 Turbo Tip with modified Vtgs...

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Sep 9, 2009 11:45:32 PM

Nick_Athens: Senior; Loc: Greece , Greece; Posts: 710, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 23, 2004; Reply to: Nick_Athens

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

h

--
F430 Spider. 997 Turbo Tip with modified Vtgs...

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Sep 10, 2009 3:25:26 AM

trip: Expert; Loc: Bay Area California , United States; Posts: 1691, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 11, 2006; Reply to: Nick_Athens

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

This car looks amazing in black! I'm not sure why so many people are saying the MP4-12C looks so mature/refined vs. F458. To me this car is more understated yet more fresh looking at the same time. I can't wait for the first reviews of both cars!

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Sep 10, 2009 7:10:33 AM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: trip

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

Absolutely agree regarding your statement about 458 in black. Looks phantastic Smiley Smiley Smiley

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Sep 10, 2009 8:39:05 AM

Italo: Veteran; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 1055, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 29, 2007; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

Beautiful looking car, but where do you put the front number plate Smiley

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Sep 10, 2009 9:35:23 AM

crayphile: Rennteam Pro; Loc: England , United Kingdom; Posts: 2861, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 16, 2004; Reply to: Nick_Athens

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

Thanks for these. The front from higher angle shots is still taking some getting used to, but I won't be cancelling the order!

--

F430 CayenneTT Mini Cooper S

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Sep 10, 2009 10:27:44 AM

Turbo4ever: Senior; Loc: HK , Hong Kong; Posts: 723, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 13, 2007; Reply to: crayphile

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

that new yellow look special but a bit gay for my taste.

the interior look cheap and a bit like the Civic.

seriously the super photoshop pics at first look so much nicer.

but, I still want this car, because it is a Ferrari.

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Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

Re: Rennteam's tribute to the Ferrari 458...lots of photos, videos, etc.

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