Crown

Here is one showing how the intercooler recovers from the 17 second full load blast in 5th gear.
The speed is kph/10 so "25" on the left hand scale is 250kph or 155mph etc.

Note the total time elapsed is 69 seconds from the peak temp at 275 kph

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2009 997 GT2 RS Tuning 542PS/736NM

Looking very good! If there are not downsides in acceleration the next questions are: How much? and Where?

Alcyon:

Looking very good! If there are not downsides in acceleration the next questions are: How much? and Where?

The response is better than stock, there are zero downsides only better intercooling...

I did consider trying to sell these with my pal who deals with the aerospace company which make them but it is just not worth the bother and they are going to be expensive, people who will spend this sort of money want to deal with a reputable tuner....

I am going to RS Tuning mid July and they are going to test them back to back against the Secan units (the Secan are taking 9 months to supply) and if they are satisfied they say they will start using these - I guess this is the sort of "stamp of approval" they need, but regardless I am very satisfied that they are 100% what I want since my full load testing up to 270kph has shown just 15 DegC over ambient which is the best one can hope for for road use.

Maybe watch out in the Cargraphic catalogue in the future, they will probably be over 10K Euro.......

2009 997 GT2 RS Tuning 542PS/736NM

Nice work Tb993tt, thanks to take your time doing this

More testing today using Porsche tester (not Durametric). Not so good results.

27DegC ambient, my test driver gunned it up to about 160mph and the IAT got as high as 54DegC. This is way higher than the claim for the Secan. The IAT recovered very quickly so I am not despondent and will await the back to back Secan tests before drawing firm conclusions.....

2009 997 GT2 RS Tuning 542PS/736NM

Very interesting , i beleive humidity plays a big role in iats , 2 days ago i did a run up to 290 and the maximum iats was 81 degrees ambient was 34 degrees but with little humditiy ,  boost was 1.2 bar  until i lifted the throtle  , yesterday it was 34ish but  a humid night , at 220 kmph boost got reduced to 1 bar which indicates very strong reduction in timing and heat soak .these results show that there are other variables that play a role apart from ambient temparature.......

Intercooler testing at RS looks like it is out of the window....

I have trialled an ECU tune from an unnamed company, said to be German 25M Euro/100 employee, use engine dyno......

My IATs at full loads are now high but the performance is most certainly apparent.

I got 0-300kph in 26.3s with an IAT of 48.7DegC (22 degC ambient)

There is no doubt in my mind that this intercooler is allowing this hp to be produced after watching the standard intercooler IATs, this new tune would be a heat soaking pile of junk but by a stroke of luck it seems to work rather well with my modifications...... I still can't quite believe the numbers - this is 0.2s faster than the Wimmer GT2 which claims 650PS/830NM and that was tested in the winter !

2009 997 GT2 RS Tuning 542PS/736NM

26.3 seconds to 300 is scary fast  almost RT12 territory with a full engine rebuild and better aerodynamics............

There is an odd "blip" in the long Gs at about 15s after the change into 6th, whilst this is obviously not right I am confident having done many of these types of runs that the numbers are good, I saw 188mph GPS and 193 on the speedo and the run took much less of the test track than usual....

This is an "interesting" ECU tune, the mid range torque feels around 750NM but it then feels quite a flat torque curve meaning power builds steeply all the way to the limiter. I observed 1.3bar frpm 5000rpm to the limiter

This relatively low peak torque means the clutch is not slipping and I really feel that I prefer it to the 800NM slug which I'm not sure suits the set up of the GT2.....

Remember the IAT numbers I was getting with stock intercoolers and stock mapping ? Well this new mapping would send the IATs off the scale with standard intercoolers - it is these intercoolers which are delivering the real power, no question about it, the IAT was 48.7degc at 302kph (22degC ambient) after 23s of full load, seems high but with the expansion manifold cooling the combustion air further they are making real hp......

This is making me think further about some of the claimed hp numbers and what they really are once they are on the road ? It is a question of how do you measure the hp numbers, even on an engine dyno ? the iAT is so critical and for correct hp measurement the IAT should be simulated to what is seen on the road at (DIN 20DegC ambient) at maximum speed.......

 BTW, the low peak torque means that the engine should not need carrillo rods - fingers crossed 

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2009 997 GT2 RS Tuning 542PS/736NM

IATs during the 300kph run:

2009 997 GT2 RS Tuning 542PS/736NM

Toby,

Couple of things...

I dont think you will need upgraded rods assuming your tune is good and does not push the engine to detonation. We run this hp all the time in the US on stock internals.

I would recommend you check your lambdas with your Durametric to make sure she is not getting lean at high boost high rpm. If you have not upgraded your DVs I would also recommend you take a look at doing so. I assume Porsche is still using cheap plastic DVs? If not disregard that advice...

porschephile1:

Toby,

Couple of things...

I dont think you will need upgraded rods assuming your tune is good and does not push the engine to detonation. We run this hp all the time in the US on stock internals.

I would recommend you check your lambdas with your Durametric to make sure she is not getting lean at high boost high rpm. If you have not upgraded your DVs I would also recommend you take a look at doing so. I assume Porsche is still using cheap plastic DVs? If not disregard that advice...

AFR is about 12.8 at max power.... is that OK ?
 

I think (hope) my tune is more of an "autobahn" tune than a US one  it is showing 1.3bar max from 5000rpm to 6750rpm, this doesn't look very crazy does it ?

I think it is the relative low IATs combined with boost/advance which are making the hp

2009 997 GT2 RS Tuning 542PS/736NM

TB993tt:

AFR is about 12.8 at max power.... is that OK ?
 

I think (hope) my tune is more of an "autobahn" tune than a US one  it is showing 1.3bar max from 5000rpm to 6750rpm, this doesn't look very crazy does it ?

I think it is the relative low IATs combined with boost/advance which are making the hp

AFR at 12.8 max is ok, imo, but I would not want to see it any higher than that. I would really prefer  low 12s to mid11s. Could you show lambdas vs rpm on an excel graph? I would like to see it across the rev range.

Boost at 1.3 bar is fine on stock turbos. Doesnt stock programing run boost equal to or higher than that on GT-2s?  I would also check the max timing angle on the Durametric just out of curiosity. I would not expect it to go over 20 degrees or even less for a pump fuel tune.

What octane fuel are you running. I would run the highest you can get your hands on for extra safety.

I my opinion, its the  timing advance that is making the hp. The rel lower IATs are just letting you hang on to your hp by preventing the ECU from having to pull timing or boost.

porschephile1:

TB993tt:

AFR is about 12.8 at max power.... is that OK ?
 

I think (hope) my tune is more of an "autobahn" tune than a US one  it is showing 1.3bar max from 5000rpm to 6750rpm, this doesn't look very crazy does it ?

I think it is the relative low IATs combined with boost/advance which are making the hp

 

AFR at 12.8 max is ok, imo, but I would not want to see it any higher than that. I would really prefer  low 12s to mid11s. Could you show lambdas vs rpm on an excel graph? I would like to see it across the rev range.

That number I gave was from a crappy chassis dyno run I did this morning, my Durametric does not like displaying anything but speed and IAT 

Boost at 1.3 bar is fine on stock turbos. Doesnt stock programing run boost equal to or higher than that on GT-2s?  I would also check the max timing angle on the Durametric just out of curiosity. I would not expect it to go over 20 degrees or even less for a pump fuel tune.

Yes this seems to be stock boost or lower......

What octane fuel are you running. I would run the highest you can get your hands on for extra safety.

98RON

I my opinion, its the  timing advance that is making the hp. The rel lower IATs are just letting you hang on to your hp by preventing the ECU from having to pull timing or boost.

Agree 100%

2009 997 GT2 RS Tuning 542PS/736NM

What whp did the chassis dyno show?

porschephile1:

What whp did the chassis dyno show?

520 with the IAT at ~45 degc

2009 997 GT2 RS Tuning 542PS/736NM

That seems about 40 whp too low for your acceleration performance.

porschephile1:

That seems about 40 whp too low for your acceleration performance.

The dyno is a Dynodynamics, Austrailian brand. From what I have seen they can capture peak power numbers quite accurately using their software and are usually considered "heart breakers" amongst those who like to have nice chassis dyno numbers....

The DD has a shootout mode which to be fair is quite regimented to give decent repeatable peak power numbers. The rest of what it does is pretty useless IMO eg it calculates torque from the hp curve ! also the scaling is very hit or miss and at this shop they do the run in third gear otherwise "things get too hot"

Regardless I monitored IAT and am reasonably happy that it is representative of "on road" flywheel hp - the next run he tried the IAT went up to 65degC due to the crappy cooling arrangements.

IMO most of the other chassis dynos are not giving the same "IAT on the road" correct hp readings....

2009 997 GT2 RS Tuning 542PS/736NM

GT:
Tobby tou can get lamda measurements from dutrametric. I just got them for my car.. How did you get AFRs?

The AFRs are from a very dodgy DynoDynamics 3rd gear chassis dyno run I did this morning

2009 997 GT2 RS Tuning 542PS/736NM

GT:
Tobby your results are really quite good, especially 200-300kms. I guess 100-200 at around 6.7 seconds is about 600-620hp flywheel but the 200-300 perf is equivalent to more power. This is most likely because of the IC keeping things cool enough for max efficiency. Awesome.. My car with 650-670hp was doing 100-200 around 6.2secs but that was with bigger compressor wheels (50mm vs 46mm). Seems like this config is really working well. This is the best value for money performance for GT2. After that point things get exponentially more complicated.. (Trust me, I know from own experience!)

GT,

What was your car doing in 200-300 km/h?

Despite the acceleration 0-300kph in 26s I was not happy with the tuning box set up running with headers and 200 cell CG cats..... I logged EGTs at 991degC which is too high. The seller of the "tuning box" couldn't really tell me what was going on other than the manufacturer would visit and do some tuning with a laptop on the road to bring the EGTs down and check other parameters....

I do not like this style of "tuning" and don't think it is befitting of a Porsche and not MY Porsche....

So car is at RS Tuning now (see pic below filling up on the way down) - they are going to test the power on the engine dyno with the tuning box fitted and then do some tuning of their own. I am not looking to change the character of the car too much so stock turbos will probably stay....... will keep posted as it happens

BTW they will be testing my intercoolers and comparing to Secan - they will be an important component in the outcome of the tuning..

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2009 997 GT2 612PS

991 degC egts are a little high especially for your setup with these super coolers + gt2s expansion manifold..,,, the egts are limited to 980 degrees.. if you exceed that boost will be lowerd and the afrs will be altered to protect the engine...the 980 limit is there to protect the vgts...

on my high speed runs with hotter weather ive seen a maximum of 850 degC egts at 300 kmph , my iats as you know were also significantly higher than yours which also contributed to the 850 degree figure..

i am sure that if RS lowerd your egts below 980 degc you will see a 23-24 second run to 300kph thats is RT12 territory

i am very sure you will be suprised after the RS tune on how lower your egts are compared to your performance box

RS have road tested my car with the tuning box on and apparently the tuning box is working the VTGs too hard. RS say stock they work at 20% (of what I'm not certain) they say that they go up to 40% but that the tuning box had the vtgs working at 55% and on the autobahn near top speed they saw 78DegC intake with my intercoolers....

They said they were surprised how high this IAT was since my cores looked good so they swapped over to a set of Secans and went out again....... they saw 75degC IAT with the Secan so basically the tuning box is super heating the IATs but of cours ethis means that for this test my intercoolers are working nearly as good as Secans...... I think I am fairly safe in saying to expect some RS Tuning engines to be sporting a set in the near future 

My engine is now on the engine dyno and will be there for a few more weeks since their ECU electronics guy is off for 2 week holiday tomorrow

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2009 997 GT2 612PS

Update:

The engine has been on the engine dyno.

The power with the tuning box measured 607PS but as mentioned above it is working the VTGs too hard and with sustained use the ECU will turn the wick down (I aim to find out further about this since this seems a key point in how other "tuners" are getting their performance with limited mods and how most customers are simply not using the cars hard enough for the ECU to intervene - an interesting topic)

They tested the engine stock ECU with CG headers and 200 cell cats - 550PS

They then plugged in their 635PS ECU (developed to run with air pipes, 100 cell cats, bigger VTGs) and it gave 617PS running just my 200 cell units and headers !!

This seemed very tempting until I was told that when they installed said 100 cell cats, carbon air pipes and bigger VTGs and ran it with the 635PS program it gave 650PS !!!!

So of course I am back tracking on staying with the standard turbos   and going with this set up. The engine stays on the dyno for another full day for the fine tuning to take place, this is what the money is for, a bespoke program to fully optimise the componentry for my engine, something which can only be done at this level on a proper factory standard engine dyno.....

Pick up next week, all will be revealed including acceleration numbers and of course the role of the intercoolers in the package

2009 997 GT2 612PS

Sounds totally immense Toby! 

I shudder to think what you are paying for this privilage though...

Alex_997TT:

Sounds totally immense Toby! 

I shudder to think what you are paying for this privilage though...

The engine dyno programming is expensive but I truly get a real buzz out of knowing that my engine is very special and has been personally tuned by the Porsche tuning god, I use the car a lot so that buzz is a daily thing - worth every Euro to me

2009 997 GT2 612PS

Great news!!    how did the bigger VTG affect the lower end of the  power curve?

Is there any chance of duplicating your IC?

Yes, I am use to the crazy power this car makes and would be interested as long as the engine is safe at this power level?!

Wonder what it would cost to upgrade?

2009 997 GT2, RS T 600