Crown

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/f1news/5573342/Formula-One-rebel-teams-break-away-from-FIA.html

Formula One's political battle reached crisis on Thursday night as the eight rebel teams announced that they are to form a breakaway championship.

The Telegraph
By Tom Cary
Published: 1:02AM BST 19 Jun 2009


Five teams, including Brawn GP and McLaren, had been told by the sport's governing body, the FIA, to drop the conditions attached to their 2010 entries by close of play on Friday or risk being excluded from next year's championship.

Another three teams – Ferrari, Red Bull and Toro Rosso – have been entered unconditionally against their will and are effectively in the same boat, with the proviso that they could be sued by F1's commercial rights-holder, Bernie Ecclestone, if they refuse to compete.

After a day of talks at Renault's headquarters in Enstone, Oxfordshire, the Formula One Teams Association (FOTA) decided to call the FIA's bluff and announced it would form its own series.

"It has become clear that the stables cannot continue to make compromises on the fundamental values of the sport," read a FOTA statement.

"They have refused to modify the conditions regarding their signing up to the 2010 world championship.

"The teams have no other alternative but to begin to prepare for a new championship which reflects the values of the competitors and their sponsors.

"This series will have a transparent governing body, one single set of rules, it would encourage new entrants, would willingly listen to the fans' wishes, which includes lower admission prices throughout the world, for the sponsors and major shareholders."

The FIA claims it has a number of aspiring independent teams waiting in the wings to fill any vacant slots on the grid. It all adds up to a situation as bleak and depressing as the skies above Silverstone on Thursday.

Max Mosley, the FIA president, had already refused a request from FOTA to extend the deadline until July 1, instead offering a final compromise of a £85 million budget cap for next year.

He added that he was willing to address concerns about governance, with a new and binding Concorde Agreement, but only if the teams first lodge unconditional entries so that changes can then be made. But FOTA clearly decided enough was enough.  

...

Has Bernie completely lost his f*cking mind? He enters Ferrari and others for next season against their will, then threatens to sue them if they don't compete?!!!

No wonder these teams are ready to bolt.

Can't say no one saw this coming. Eccelstone was getting too greedy. Mosley and the FIA kept drastically changing the rules every other year and stifiling innovation. Making things miserable for engineers and teams. Rather than focus on making better cars and packages, they had to constantly focus on beating the rules.

Ferrari and others threatened 2 years ago to break away and do their own series.
Ecclestone is stupid. He thinks the F1 is the "brand" that brings people in the door.

Wrong, F1 = the manufacturer names involved. No one cares that F1 is "F1" 

With no Renault, Ferrari, McLaren, BMW, etc. Well, F1 might as well be A1GP and you see how "popular" that series is.

...the only thing stopping you in all likelihood, is you!

Max just put down Ferrari in his list to promote next year's F1, he NEEDS the brand name in order to sell his series. Without the big name, is anyone going to watch a so called 'top' racing series with only USGP, Force India, etc? 

The next step might be the trackssuing Max and Bernie because what they will be getting is not what they promised, this is going to be a handful for Max and Bernie's lawyers.

This is turned into the IndyCar vs CART, with Max on the CART side and FOTA on the IndyCar side, FOTA has the brand name manufacturers which is like IndyCar having the crown jewel Indy 500.

..except with the difference that CART was much better than IndyCar. (not so much turning left)

Lets hope The Spank gets spanked!

 Oh man, I don't know what to say, maybe a new racing series would be best anyway?

Really dramatic developments....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8108488.stm

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=46159

http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=46161

Rennteam Moderator - 997.1 C2S Coupe GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection

Guys, this is all about governance. What is at stake here is the business model for motor sport which is almost unique amongst professional sport.

It maintains an administrative structure that’s a profit center in competition with its participants. American football and baseball are examples of the alternative, in which the league structures are creatures of the owners, who provide a budget for those functions but do not allow them to independently compete for funding. That doesn’t mean those “governing bodies” don’t wield a great deal of power – they do. But it’s at the leisure of owners, who cede that “self policing” function.  (adapted from the Bear)

What FOTA want is to change this.

Alonso interview on this subject:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8108300.stm

Rennteam Moderator - 997.1 C2S Coupe GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection

The FIA's response

www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/pressreleases/f1releases/2009/Pages/fia_fota_2010.aspx

Bernie and Max are dead, long live the new series from FOTA.

Carlos from Spain:

Bernie and Max are dead, long live the new series from FOTA.

I hope you're right.

The situation should never have been allowed to get as far as it has, but now that it has I hope that the rebelling teams will stick to their guns until all the necessary changes have been made, including getting rid of Mosley and Ecclestone.
 

--

fritz

FOTA definately has my vote.....kudos for Luca & Co., telling spanky good bye...never thought it will happen

but maybe this will bring me back to the TV ! Let's see how they will make it happen ! I will certainly stop watching F1 !

Im sick and tired of Bernie.....Go FOTA go..

Fundamentally, FOTA teams are tired of Max Mosley changing the rules without even consulting them. Also, after the 'spanking' episode, Mosley said he would not seek another term as President yet he is now manoeuvring to do exactly that. Quite rightly, the FOTA teams have had enough and I don't blame them.

As for Bernie Ecclestone, he is not sharing enough income from F1 with the teams.

F1 is a young sport which has been shaped by 2 old men who still think it is their toy to play around with.

IMO what's happening now is simply an inevitable reaction by the FOTA teams as the sport matures beyond the individual personalities that have been there all along.

Rennteam Moderator - 997.1 C2S Coupe GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection

Well done !!!! Things have to change.  I will support FOTA !

Interesting last few years with Alonso, he went from hero as a world champion to zero in a McLaren, then advertised his desire to be in a Ferrari car while going back to Renault, next year he might have a chance to fulfill his dream of driving the Ferrari F1 and this happens. It's almost like someone up there is playing with him. If he does ended up in a Ferrari next year he might not be driving for a F1 title, it's for something else.

Brilliant news. 

Finally no more midget, spanky and dodgy FIA official rulings effectively changing the outcome of races after they have completed.

Unfortunately FOTA are engineering orientated.  They don't have a clue about the sales, marketing, sponsorship, promotion and business side of staging the F1 circus. Mores the pity..

There has to be a compromise and that will come about because Mosley stands down next year.

If it doesn't happen then that will be the end of Formula One and we'll have FOTA organising 17 races...all held at Silverstone!! 

--

"Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."

It appears most of the (fan's) feedback supports FOTA - bad news for Bernie and company.

IMO, F1 should represent the pinnacle of automotive engineering. Rules should be very basic and easy to enforce: - open wheels,  any engine, 2wl or 4wl drive etc.

How else will we see what talented engineers are capable of. If I wanted to watch cookie cutter type racing, I would watch NASCAR.

Obviously, they could establish several hp/weight standards, give diesel/electric engines weight advantages, etc.   Set maximum wing heights, wheel sizes etc. But not the kind of all fits one type of rules currently in place.

Maybe I'm being naive, but I've been bored to death with F1 lately. Engines limited in rpm, must last 2 races, no engine development allowed, limited testing allowed etc. Give me a break!!

Am I the only one who thinks this year's cars look ridiculous with the reduced wings?

Yeh I think there should be no rules apart from limiting the engine capacity (normally aspirated).  We should be encouraging innovation and not limiting it.

...well part from safety rules for the driver in case of a crash.

--

FIA to sue FOTA:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8109846.stm

Andrew Benson's blog:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewbenson/2009/06/f1_can_survive_current_breakaw.html

Rennteam Moderator - 997.1 C2S Coupe GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection

4 wheels, single seat, weight tied to engine capacity with formula for supercharged/turbocharged conversion and alternate fuel. After that anything goes as long as the driver is protected as best as possible. Now THAT would be a great engineering challenge for the engineers.

Whoopsy:

4 wheels, single seat, weight tied to engine capacity with formula for supercharged/turbocharged conversion and alternate fuel. After that anything goes as long as the driver is protected as best as possible. Now THAT would be a great engineering challenge for the engineers.

 Great idea, that would give us many different cars in one race, making for some really interesting races! To prevent that everyone builds cars specific to one track, changes to the cars during the season should be limited.

And what about limiting the amount of fuel/energy they are allowed to use for the race? Safety regulations could be voted for by the drivers (not teams).

I'd say for a 16 race season, no changes to the car for the first 8, then they can change car config for the second half. Minor changes like wing angles and tire compound are ok.

Fuel cap can also be explored to make the series look 'green'. Alternately, a soft cap can be use, for teams that race over the cap will have their race time penaltized and vice versa?

Whoopsy:

I'd say for a 16 race season, no changes to the car for the first 8, then they can change car config for the second half. Minor changes like wing angles and tire compound are ok.

Fuel cap can also be explored to make the series look 'green'. Alternately, a soft cap can be use, for teams that race over the cap will have their race time penaltized and vice versa?

 

I'd like to see something more like: 

- Field increased to no less than 10 - not more than 15 teams.

- Races increased to 18-20.

- T-Car / Spare Car is back. Each team is allowed to have one spare car per race, however, it must use the engine from the car the wrecked/broke down barring that car's demise was not due to engine failure.

- "Get Back In the Fight" Rule - if you go off track and beach the car in the kitty litter, or stall. So long as the car is mechanically safe - Marshalls will put you back on the track and YOU MUST race to complete the race. If the car does not refire under it's own power, you may retire. (Hence the electric starter in the engine package). This always dissapointed me about F1. The car goes off the track ./ or you stall - your race is over. What bullsh*t.

- Park Ferme remains. I think this is good. What you qualify with is what you race! 

- Multiple Engine Formulas: V8 Turbo, V10 na, or V12 na. All Ethanol based engines equalized to no more than 800 bhp. Inlet restrictions for turbo engines. All cars must use KERs. All engines must have a electric starter motor attached and be able to restart under its own power.  Engine starter will be fired off of KERs battery, so you'll only have a limited number of restart attempts before you race is over.

(1) Race engine and (1) Practice engine allowed each race however, race engines must last at least 3 contigious races before a swap.  If your practice engine blows, you can use your race engine but this does not count against its time.

(These are race engines - no consumer engines dammit, Bernie! They deserved to be replaced more frequently).

- Gearbox: 7-speed w/1 reverse. Standarized internals w/single source supplier. Standarized gear ratios.

- Electronics Package: Standardized electronics with engine mapping left at the discretion of the teams. No traction control. No antilock braking. No launch control.

- Suspension: Electronic suspenions allowed with limited in car adjustment and control (hey, Indy gives these guys weight jacker control to move weight around in the car, why not!) Control arms must be made from something stronger - or a reinforced carbon fiber. I'm tired of seeing cars go out the race because a little impact on the tire completely destroys the control arms and tires go askew or simply fall off. 

- Tires. Full slicks. 4 Compounds. Hard, Soft, Intermediate, Full Wet. That's it. No more b*llshit about making "sloppier" tires to make the driving more difficult and planning strategy around intentionally sh*tty tires and forcing teams to use them! How stupid and lame, Bridgestone & FIA!

- Chassis. Weight minimum decreased by 100lbs (220 kilos). Legality plank now made from metal (sparks are cool!!) 

- Aero. Increased rear wing size, but kept at current height to keep passing intact. Slight decrease in front wing size (the wings right now are too wide and they are accidentally getting clipped and screwing up people races). Limited front and rear active in car adjustment allowed. (racing boats are allowed to trim out during the race - why not cars?!)

- Anti Tire to Tire Shield. This is the most dangerous thing in open wheeled racing and an unecessary saftey risk for everyone - Drivers, track marshalls, spectators. If tires touch, one car gets vaulted 10 feet in the air or more and lands wherever. A small sturdy metal "C" just behind each wheel would prevent this. The will be a standardized regulation piece. 

- New Race Bonus Points: (1/2) pt for most positions improved. (1/2) pt for fastest sector time. (1/2) pt for fastest trap speed. (1) pt for fastest lap time.

- New Title: Spirt of Racing Title awarded to the non-factory sponsored/privateer team with the most points througout the season.  You've got to recognize the non-big guns and give them something to shoot for when it becomes clear by like the 6th race in the season that they won't be in the Drivers/Constructors Championship.

...the only thing stopping you in all likelihood, is you!

Heist, ethanol is not such a good idea IMHO. Moreover, why would you need a detuned turbocharged V8 or NA V12 to pump out 800 BHP, when you can do that with the current generation of NA 2.4 V8 (if derestricted)? Oh, and since when do 100 lbs eqate to 220 kilogrammes?

REALZEUS:

 Oh, and since when do 100 lbs eqate to 220 kilogrammes?

Wrong way round - simple error...

"Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."

Heist is American, they are stuck on ethanol racing with IndyCar :)

Danger is they burn clear, flames are invisible.

REALZEUS:

Heist, ethanol is not such a good idea IMHO. Moreover, why would you need a detuned turbocharged V8 or NA V12 to pump out 800 BHP, when you can do that with the current generation of NA 2.4 V8 (if derestricted)? Oh, and since when do 100 lbs eqate to 220 kilogrammes?

i was tired and transposed the measurements

220 lbs = 100 kilos

800 hp restriction sets a high water mark too keep cars even  and to compensate a bit for the reduction in weight. The difference in engine type will define the kind of power it makes and how fuel efficient it will be which will help define pit strategy and mileage.

i.e. a V12 will produce gobs of torque but won't rev as high and is very thirsty which force you to pit more.

A V8 turbo will make much higher RPMs and give you more up-top power and be a bit more fuel efficient than a 12.

A V10 sort of splits the drawback and advantages between the two.

But why do you think Ethanol is a bad idea? Racing engines have used this and methanol for decades. It runs cooler, is less corrossive. Produces less emissions and can be run at higher compressions than most gasoline fuels.

...the only thing stopping you in all likelihood, is you!

Heist:

But why do you think Ethanol is a bad idea? Racing engines have used this and methanol for decades. It runs cooler, is less corrossive. Produces less emissions and can be run at higher compressions than most gasoline fuels.

 And it smells much better.... But the sound would lose.

Heist, actually with the same displacement, a V8 revs lower because of heavier pistons, a V12 rev faster but it has more frictional lost due to more surface area, a V10, currently used in F1 is a compromise between the 2 :)