Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Audi RS4, Audi S5 or BMW M3 ? - Page1

Apr 13, 2009 8:14:47 AM

BangoO: Pilot; Loc: France , France; Posts: 366, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 22, 2006

Audi RS4, Audi S5 or BMW M3 ?

Good morning everyone !

I finally really decided to sell my Cayman S. Just too noisy and not comfortable enough to be my daily driver. I do half city driving half highways everyday, plus lots of highways the other days of the week.

The Cayman S is an awesome car, I think it's the car I love the most, but also the one I hate the most depending of where I drive it and whether I'm tired or not Smiley

Anyway... I want a four seater daily driver... I wanted to go for the M3, but the price of a used S5 made me think a bit more... here in France, there is a 10-15k differente between an RS4/S5 and an M3.

I'd rather have lots of torque in the low RPMs for the city driving, and comfort, but I want the car to be able to be sporty as well when I feel like it... Exhaust note is also important for me (but it has to be quiet on highways), and I do not want to have to install an aftermarket exhaust.

So... what would be your advice, and why ?

Thx !

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Apr 13, 2009 8:45:52 AM

KresoF1: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 7856, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2005; Reply to: BangoO

Re: Audi RS4, Audi S5 or BMW M3 ?

Test drive Audi S5 manual and BMW M3 manual and then decide.

With M3 you can choose between coupe and sedan. M3 e90 in sedan version is more rare then coupe, but prefacelift(09/2008) cars are not so expensive.

S5 will fullfill your needs nicelly-good torque at low revs, nice-not to loud exhaust note and good comfort. Just it is more GT then sportscar(in fact it is not sportscar).

M3 on the other hand is more sportscar then GT. Just to get most of it you will need car equiped with: EDC, M Drive and 19". 280km/h limiter is also most welcome option. I advice strongly manual for M3 since M-DKG is not very best dual-clutch gearbox and there is simply way too many programms for shifting speed(11 in total!)...

Old RS4 is very good car-just it is not very new and honestly I would not buy it.

In the end IMHO choice is between S5 and M3. Hmm... If you do not need AWDin S5 go for M3. If your car is your all year daily driver then answer is S5.

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Apr 13, 2009 8:56:34 AM

BangoO: Pilot; Loc: France , France; Posts: 366, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 22, 2006; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: Audi RS4, Audi S5 or BMW M3 ?

Thx very much Kreso...

The S5 looks more and more like the car I need... AWD is a plus for me, as I have to drive it all year, and this could include snow conditions... I'm just afraid that the S5 will be as boring to drive as the 335i I had before the Cayman S (and I mean boring to drive compared to the Caymans S of course).

Of course, I need to drive both cars, but they are impossible to find for a test drive here...

I agree with you for the RS4, but a big plus would be the low depreciation...

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Apr 13, 2009 9:05:26 AM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: BangoO

Re: Audi RS4, Audi S5 or BMW M3 ?

I would keep the Cayman S and get a cheaper car as my daily driver, something like a Golf GTI for example that is very practical and good fun to drive too.

These powerful saloon/coupes may have many cylinders and HP and speed but they are no substitute for the feel of a thoroughbred sports car.

--
It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

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Apr 13, 2009 9:20:39 AM

BangoO: Pilot; Loc: France , France; Posts: 366, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 22, 2006; Reply to: reginos

Re: Audi RS4, Audi S5 or BMW M3 ?

reginos, I can't (no place to park it) and I don't want to (I want a good all-around car), but thx for the advice anyway ;-)

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Apr 13, 2009 9:26:35 AM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: BangoO

Re: Audi RS4, Audi S5 or BMW M3 ?

BangoO:

reginos, I can't (no place to park it) and I don't want to (I want a good all-around car), but thx for the advice anyway ;-)

In that case I would go for the Audi S5, especially if in your area you get heavy winters. Audis are excellent winter cars and more robust.

BMWs more involving with their RWD (sometimes too involving in the wet).

--
It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

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Apr 13, 2009 10:49:53 AM

BangoO: Pilot; Loc: France , France; Posts: 366, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 22, 2006; Reply to: reginos

Re: Audi RS4, Audi S5 or BMW M3 ?

You are probably right reginos... it's just that the car I loved the most with my Cayman S is the M3 E46 SMG2 I had 6 years ago... so the new M3 is very tempting, but at least 10k€ more than the S5 and I'm not sure it's worth it.

Which one do you guys think will have the best resale value, and therefore the smallest depreciation, after 1 year ? (provided I buy it used, so let's say 45k€ for the S5 and 55k€ for the M3)

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Apr 13, 2009 12:55:08 PM

pride355: Rennteam Pro; Loc: iSTANBUL , Turkey; Posts: 2475, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 28, 2005; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: Audi RS4, Audi S5 or BMW M3 ?

KresoF1:

M3 on the other hand is more sportscar then GT. Just to get most of it you will need car equiped with: EDC, M Drive and 19". 280km/h limiter is also most welcome option. I advice strongly manual for M3 since M-DKG is not very best dual-clutch gearbox and there is simply way too many programms for shifting speed(11 in total!)...

Hi Kreso,

Do you think that 19" wheels are needed for better performance figures; since M3 coupe GTR race car comes with 18" wheels?

I always think that 19" wheels are for bling factor for M3; except mayb CSL 19" wheels but they were needed for bigger front rotors.

Also I read that BMW has updated M DKG software for the small driveablity problems. However, Porsche PDK is better than M DKG, as far as I heard and read. Unfortunately it is a big shame for BMW since two of the Gearboxes are both made by Getrag, and virtually the same. So Porsche did its homework bettter Smiley

And I would go for the M3 especially if the other choice is S5, since M3 is the best all around car in the market right now; IMO until the RS5 maybe Smiley

--

ONUR

09 Audi TTS Ibis

07 997 Carrera S / 05 M3 Coupe / 03 M3 Coupe / 96 M3 Coupe EVO (ALL BUT HISTORY)

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Apr 13, 2009 1:05:53 PM

AUM: Veteran; Loc: Germany; Posts: 1203, Gallery; Registered on: May 2, 2006; Reply to: pride355

Re: Audi RS4, Audi S5 or BMW M3 ?

It sounds like the GTR meets your needs if you can get over the styling and brand. And it is much faster than any of the others cars you are considering.

suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/showDetails.html

But if your choice is between the S5 and M3 take the BWM and fit winter tires. It will be fine in the snow and provides similar sports car enjoyment to the Cayman S with much more practicality and comfort.

--

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Apr 13, 2009 1:46:38 PM

BangoO: Pilot; Loc: France , France; Posts: 366, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 22, 2006; Reply to: AUM

Re: Audi RS4, Audi S5 or BMW M3 ?

AUM, it's almost twice the price of a used S5...

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Apr 13, 2009 4:56:40 PM

KresoF1: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 7856, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2005; Reply to: pride355

Re: Audi RS4, Audi S5 or BMW M3 ?

pride355:

KresoF1:

M3 on the other hand is more sportscar then GT. Just to get most of it you will need car equiped with: EDC, M Drive and 19". 280km/h limiter is also most welcome option. I advice strongly manual for M3 since M-DKG is not very best dual-clutch gearbox and there is simply way too many programms for shifting speed(11 in total!)...

Hi Kreso,

Do you think that 19" wheels are needed for better performance figures; since M3 coupe GTR race car comes with 18" wheels?

I always think that 19" wheels are for bling factor for M3; except mayb CSL 19" wheels but they were needed for bigger front rotors.

Also I read that BMW has updated M DKG software for the small driveablity problems. However, Porsche PDK is better than M DKG, as far as I heard and read. Unfortunately it is a big shame for BMW since two of the Gearboxes are both made by Getrag, and virtually the same. So Porsche did its homework bettter

And I would go for the M3 especially if the other choice is S5, since M3 is the best all around car in the market right now; IMO until the RS5 maybe

With 19" M3 is faster on the track. GTR race car use different layout then stock M3(suspension wise). I do not agree that 19" are bling factor on M3. Standard 18" really look way too small on M3.

M-DKG is good, just IMHO manual is better.

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Apr 13, 2009 5:27:53 PM

pride355: Rennteam Pro; Loc: iSTANBUL , Turkey; Posts: 2475, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 28, 2005; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: Audi RS4, Audi S5 or BMW M3 ?

In order not to cause any misunderstanding what I mean is M3 GT4;

This car: http://www.rennteam.com/forum/index.html?vs=9

--

ONUR

09 Audi TTS Ibis

07 997 Carrera S / 05 M3 Coupe / 03 M3 Coupe / 96 M3 Coupe EVO (ALL BUT HISTORY)

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Apr 14, 2009 8:56:20 AM

BangoO: Pilot; Loc: France , France; Posts: 366, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 22, 2006; Reply to: pride355

Re: Audi RS4, Audi S5 or BMW M3 ?

I don't care about track time anyway ;-)

Which one do you guys think will have the best resale value, and therefore the smallest depreciation, after 1 year ? (provided I buy it used, so let's say 45k€ for the S5 and 55k€ for the M3)

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Apr 14, 2009 9:11:29 AM

Queram: Pilot; Loc: Istanbul , Turkey; Posts: 330, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 27, 2006; Reply to: BangoO

Re: Audi RS4, Audi S5 or BMW M3 ?

I think once the new engine is in the S5, V8 S5 will depreciate. M3 is your best bet here.

--

2006 C4S --to be ditched soon..

Suzuki Burgman AN400

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Apr 14, 2009 9:14:30 AM

Avoe: Veteran; Loc: Vienna , Austria; Posts: 803, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 17, 2002; Reply to: Queram

Re: Audi RS4, Audi S5 or BMW M3 ?

Take the M3, its the most involving car from your choices. Lets say like this, the M3 will let you miss your actuall car less then the other 2 cars.

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Apr 14, 2009 11:06:51 AM

BangoO: Pilot; Loc: France , France; Posts: 366, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 22, 2006; Reply to: Avoe

Re: Audi RS4, Audi S5 or BMW M3 ?

Someone proposed an exchange + money with a TTS... that might be a nice way to wait for the TTRS which is the car I might have wanted next...

Problem is, I'm having a hard time selling my Cayman S, this is the only offer I got !

The other problem is, I did not like the engine very much in the S3, too much turbo lag...

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Apr 14, 2009 11:36:40 AM

pride355: Rennteam Pro; Loc: iSTANBUL , Turkey; Posts: 2475, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 28, 2005; Reply to: BangoO

Re: Audi RS4, Audi S5 or BMW M3 ?

I own a TTS and I don't think the turbo lag is too much.

Actually after 2000 rpm, there is always power with a strong mid range punch up untill 6900 rpm.

Your choice but I'm very happy with the car.

--

ONUR

09 Audi TTS Ibis

07 997 Carrera S / 05 M3 Coupe / 03 M3 Coupe / 96 M3 Coupe EVO (ALL BUT HISTORY)

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Apr 14, 2009 11:40:31 AM

pride355: Rennteam Pro; Loc: iSTANBUL , Turkey; Posts: 2475, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 28, 2005; Reply to: pride355

Re: Audi RS4, Audi S5 or BMW M3 ?

For a refrance, we used to own a Maserati quattroporte (in 1999); 97 model car with a 2.0L turbo engine. It had the Ghibli cup engine that was 306 hp from 2.0L.

That car had too much turbo lag. With its 225 skinny tires on 16" rims, once the second turbo kicks in at 4500 rpm car starts to oversteer but not in a good manner.

--

ONUR

09 Audi TTS Ibis

07 997 Carrera S / 05 M3 Coupe / 03 M3 Coupe / 96 M3 Coupe EVO (ALL BUT HISTORY)

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Apr 14, 2009 11:58:42 AM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: BangoO

Re: Audi RS4, Audi S5 or BMW M3 ?

BangoO:

Someone proposed an exchange + money with a TTS... that might be a nice way to wait for the TTRS which is the car I might have wanted next...

Problem is, I'm having a hard time selling my Cayman S, this is the only offer I got !

The other problem is, I did not like the engine very much in the S3, too much turbo lag...

These days in any market selling a Porsche is not easy. If the TTS satisfies your needs it's a fine car but will it be marketable after a year or two when you get fed up with it?

--
It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

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Apr 14, 2009 12:06:06 PM

derder: Senior; Loc: Australia , Australia; Posts: 593, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 4, 2004; Reply to: pride355

Re: Audi RS4, Audi S5 or BMW M3 ?

Please do yourself a favour and add Merc C63 onto your list!!

I too was in a simliar siutation. u can search my previous post.

I had a boxster and wanted something faster and more comfy.

was thinking about a Cayman S FL but ultimately chose something different.

havent got my car yet but test drive was promising. loads of torque, very usable at low revs. exhaust sound would put a M3 to shame!

certainly would be the ideal car to go long distances. and can pretty much out drag 95% of cars on the road- if u r into that.... i m not.

so.... test drive a C63 before u decide!

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Apr 14, 2009 12:36:26 PM

Shakal: Expert; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 1375, Gallery; Registered on: May 30, 2006; Reply to: Avoe

Re: Audi RS4, Audi S5 or BMW M3 ?

Avoe:

Take the M3, its the most involving car from your choices. Lets say like this, the M3 will let you miss your actuall car less then the other 2 cars.

Agree with that, I think M3 is the best choice here. With different exhaust (for example Akrapovič is one of the best) you gain another 24 hp and car weights 26 kg less: http://www.a-workx.com/index.php?id=181

For a lower price, E92 335i with M package is another great choice. With some mods you can come near to 400 hp.

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Apr 14, 2009 1:23:00 PM

BangoO: Pilot; Loc: France , France; Posts: 366, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 22, 2006; Reply to: Shakal

Re: Audi RS4, Audi S5 or BMW M3 ?

Of course, I thought about the C63... but once I bought it, I will have to keep it for life, it is IMPOSSIBLE to sell here. The only way to get one would be a leasing, but I don't want to buy it new, it's too expensive... so... short answer is no :-)

I had a 335i between my 987S and my Cayman S, fantastic car, but boring to drive compared to the Porsches... and well, I don't want another one, I want something I never had before.

Maybe I'll give another thought at the TTS, as it's not expensive, easy to drive (it has the DSG which I usually don't like, so I might have to test drive it). And I could sell it to Audi when I buy a TTRS, so it could be an interesting way of getting rid of my Cayman S...

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Apr 14, 2009 1:37:56 PM

pride355: Rennteam Pro; Loc: iSTANBUL , Turkey; Posts: 2475, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 28, 2005; Reply to: BangoO

Re: Audi RS4, Audi S5 or BMW M3 ?

BangoO:

Maybe I'll give another thought at the TTS, as it's not expensive, easy to drive (it has the DSG which I usually don't like, so I might have to test drive it). And I could sell it to Audi when I buy a TTRS, so it could be an interesting way of getting rid of my Cayman S...

Then maybe you should have read "pictures of my TTS" thread Smiley

--

ONUR

09 Audi TTS Ibis

07 997 Carrera S / 05 M3 Coupe / 03 M3 Coupe / 96 M3 Coupe EVO (ALL BUT HISTORY)

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Apr 14, 2009 1:43:49 PM

BangoO: Pilot; Loc: France , France; Posts: 366, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 22, 2006; Reply to: pride355

Re: Audi RS4, Audi S5 or BMW M3 ?

I did... I'll read it again then, what did I miss ?

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Apr 14, 2009 5:20:00 PM

Shakal: Expert; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 1375, Gallery; Registered on: May 30, 2006; Reply to: BangoO

Re: Audi RS4, Audi S5 or BMW M3 ?

BangoO:

I had a 335i between my 987S and my Cayman S, fantastic car, but boring to drive compared to the Porsches... and well, I don't want another one, I want something I never had before.

If your opinion is that 335i is a boring for a drive, then I think S5 is not a car for you...

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Apr 14, 2009 9:17:09 PM

BangoO: Pilot; Loc: France , France; Posts: 366, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 22, 2006; Reply to: Shakal

Re: Audi RS4, Audi S5 or BMW M3 ?

Yep I thought so too...

I'm testdriving a TTS next saturday... maybe that's the car I need right now, waiting for the TTS or an RS5 (who knows)... I'd like an AWD car, I never had one, and it always caused me trouble during winter. And an exchange with my CS is the only offer I got so far...

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Apr 19, 2009 7:53:02 AM

BangoO: Pilot; Loc: France , France; Posts: 366, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 22, 2006; Reply to: BangoO

Re: Audi RS4, Audi S5 or BMW M3 ?

So I testdrove the TTS yesterday...

Good news is, compared to the Cayman S with 19" and PASM, it is very comfortable with the 19" as well. It's is also a lot more quiet inside, which is what I was looking for.

The engine is not bad, there is no torque at all below 2000rpms, then there is more torque than the Cayman S, and in the upper range the Cayman S feels a lot more porwerfull (I love the kick in the butt the Cayman S gives when reaching 5000rpms). I still don't like the turbo lag... I would never buy a TTS without the DSG gearbox, because of the very low torque at low rpms. In the end, it really depends on how you drive it to compare it to the Cayman S... but I prefer the Cayman S engine, and the sound is also a lot better in the Cayman S.

The interior of the TTS is really really nice... better than the Cayman S, but feels smaller. Seats and driving position are perfect for me, I never liked the Cayman S seats anyway (sport or non sport), they are too narrow, and I'm not big at all, I'm fit

The look of the car... both cars look really good and aggressive, but the Porsche remains a Porsche and makes people turn heads a lot more, but it could be because you never see a Cayman S around here, and many TTs.

Anyway, after the testdrive, I was quite happy about the TTS, thinking that with the DSG gearbox it would make a very good daily driver for me through my life of traffic jams And then I went back home in the Cayman S and thought... it feels like driving a truck, everything is so hard... I opened the window and enjoyed the sound and the car feeling, this car is really sensational, but a very bad daily driver in my conditions (lot's of traffic jams and highways).

So in the end... I don't know what to do

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Apr 19, 2009 9:34:16 AM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: BangoO

Re: Audi RS4, Audi S5 or BMW M3 ?

Like I said in a previous post, you need two cars to be 100% happy Smiley

--
It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

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Apr 19, 2009 9:41:00 AM

BangoO: Pilot; Loc: France , France; Posts: 366, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 22, 2006; Reply to: reginos

Re: Audi RS4, Audi S5 or BMW M3 ?

Hehe you're probably right, but it ain't gonna happen

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Apr 20, 2009 6:37:53 AM

BangoO: Pilot; Loc: France , France; Posts: 366, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 22, 2006; Reply to: BangoO

Re: Audi RS4, Audi S5 or BMW M3 ?

My Cayman S is from 02/2006, has 32000 kms and cost 81.000€ new.

The TTS is from 05/2008, has 15000kms and cost 61.000€ new.

For my Cayman S, the guy is offering his TTS + 2500€... I wanted 5000€... what do you think ?

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