Crown

dont forget the turbo is "fat" comparing wit its all challengers... F430,  corvette, gallardo...

and with less power its  the fastest in acceleration, imagine with the same weight of its competitors...

991TT pdk 1450 kg  540hp  nothing will keep up with it!!!!   i Believe!

SciFrog:
I agree, the 997 needs to shave another 150lbs. Yes the competition is heavier, but they also need to shave off weight. Ferrari is on the right track with the F450 and California

Objection! California is way too heavy, I hope the F450 will tend in the opposite direction.

Back again!  

SciFrog:
Considering the California has a folding roof, weight is not too far from what it should be.

Of course that's true, but yet the California is still to heavy over all.

Back again!  

RC:

Smaller and lighter = Cayman. 

Seriously: I never heard somebody making complaints about the 911 to be too big or too heavy. If you want a lighter 911, go for the GT3.

Smaller engine? Are you kidding?

Less fuel? Are you kidding again? Have you ever drove a 997? Compared to other sportscars, the 911 is no fuel burner.

The Panamera is no sportscar, it is a limousine and it can't replace in ANY way the 911.

I would rather think that the Panamera will "steal" customers from the Cayenne than from the 911. 

--
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

Well you would have nothing against a cayman but their performance is capped so as not to ruin it for the 911. The weight is a general nowadays problem, if they are going to change a lot that might be a good starting point !! that makes it more efficient, you see by reducing weight you are making the engine, brake and suspension job a lot easier. Performance in every possible situation improves and if it is smaller it will be more widely in narrow roads. More in the spirit of old school road rallying/racing.

just my thoughts on it .

“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” -- George Bernard Shaw

Rossi:

neunelf:

RC:

Porsche seems to test the 991 and a possible Panamera Coupe under the "look" of the current 911, so I wouldn't read too much into these cars from the looks only.

Why would Porsche move the side mirrors and use a lot of camouflage if this was just the current design? The Panamera turned out to be pretty much the car that the mules suggested and I think we'll see the same thing here: this is the actual 991 hiding the new lights and a few other details.

Yup, I think the same. All new Porsche will have these side mirrors mounted at the doors. So what we see is basically the final design, surely the use of new head and rear lights, as well as front and rear bumpers will give it a new look different to the 997, but I'm sure it's again more evolution than revolution.

        

--

Back again!  

Agree, this is the shape of the 991.
I like this evolution, especially those rear side windows and side mirrors and wide body.....

I have heard current 997.2 isn't selling great.

I think we'll see the 991 soon, probably in 2010.

Again I have to repeat what my Neighbour (owner of a company who is a interior part supplier) told me. He said 2011 - so lets wait and see.

Turbo4ever:

Rossi:

neunelf:

RC:

Porsche seems to test the 991 and a possible Panamera Coupe under the "look" of the current 911, so I wouldn't read too much into these cars from the looks only.

Why would Porsche move the side mirrors and use a lot of camouflage if this was just the current design? The Panamera turned out to be pretty much the car that the mules suggested and I think we'll see the same thing here: this is the actual 991 hiding the new lights and a few other details.

Yup, I think the same. All new Porsche will have these side mirrors mounted at the doors. So what we see is basically the final design, surely the use of new head and rear lights, as well as front and rear bumpers will give it a new look different to the 997, but I'm sure it's again more evolution than revolution.

--

Back again!  

Agree, this is the shape of the 991.
I like this evolution, especially those rear side windows and side mirrors and wide body.....

I have heard current 997.2 isn't selling great.

I think we'll see the 991 soon, probably in 2010.

The new 911 will have no side mirrors for sake of better aerodynamics, but cameras with images on the inside of the A pillar. The mule mirrors are probably an interim solution.

It will also have a 7 speed manual gearbox.

Entry level car will be a low pressure turbo 3.0lt. Top car a 4.0lt with a 3.6lt in between.

Lars997:

Again I have to repeat what my Neighbour (owner of a company who is a interior part supplier) told me. He said 2011 - so lets wait and see.

reginos:

The new 911 will have no side mirrors for sake of better aerodynamics, but cameras with images on the inside of the A pillar. The mule mirrors are probably an interim solution.

It will also have a 7 speed manual gearbox.

Entry level car will be a low pressure turbo 3.0lt. Top car a 4.0lt with a 3.6lt in between.

 

--
It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

reginos:

Lars997:

 

Again I have to repeat what my Neighbour (owner of a company who is a interior part supplier) told me. He said 2011 - so lets wait and see.

So if production starts summer of 2011, it will practically be a 2012 car.

 

--
It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

        yep - you might be right. I will try to ask him again, next time I see him

Gnil:

reginos:

The new 911 will have no side mirrors for sake of better aerodynamics, but cameras with images on the inside of the A pillar. The mule mirrors are probably an interim solution.

It will also have a 7 speed manual gearbox.

Entry level car will be a low pressure turbo 3.0lt. Top car a 4.0lt with a 3.6lt in between.

--
It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

Reginos, are those wishes or facts ? How did you get these infos ?
--
 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

No facts so far. Cameras instead of side mirrors are on the wishlist of Porsche development department, but there is no decision yet, if they will make it into production.

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

Gnil:

reginos:

The new 911 will have no side mirrors for sake of better aerodynamics, but cameras with images on the inside of the A pillar. The mule mirrors are probably an interim solution.

It will also have a 7 speed manual gearbox.

Entry level car will be a low pressure turbo 3.0lt. Top car a 4.0lt with a 3.6lt in between.

--
It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

Reginos, are those wishes or facts ? How did you get these infos ?
--
 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

I've read it in the greek language edition of Auto Bild, about a or so month ago.

Often this kind of information about future cars (not only Porsches) proves true. Of course Auto Bild is not the Bible, but they must know something!

So you are telling us you've got your "knowledge" from Auto Bild and now you pretend everything would come as some journalist said?

 (I read this article too BTW, but would never post it as a fact)

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

Rossi:

So you are telling us you've got your "knowledge" from Auto Bild and now you pretend everything would come as some journalist said?

 (I read this article too BTW, but would never post it as a fact)

--

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

Actually the rumour about the 7 speed and the low pressure turbo engine I've seen it in various publications over the last few months. They are a growing rumour.

About the rear view cameras the source was only the AutoBild but it makes sense since the technology is available. Better aerodymanics, lower consumption and emissions.

Rossi:

Gnil:

reginos:

The new 911 will have no side mirrors for sake of better aerodynamics, but cameras with images on the inside of the A pillar. The mule mirrors are probably an interim solution.

It will also have a 7 speed manual gearbox.

Entry level car will be a low pressure turbo 3.0lt. Top car a 4.0lt with a 3.6lt in between.

--
It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

Reginos, are those wishes or facts ? How did you get these infos ?
--
 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

No facts so far. Cameras instead of side mirrors are on the wishlist of Porsche development department, but there is no decision yet, if they will make it into production.

--

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

They are not on the wishlist, they are actually on the productionlist and are fact. Several months ago an executive from Porsche's R&D department told an Australian magazine that the new 911 will do without side mirrors and this way back when test mules had not begun rolling on the roads.

Pull up some images of test mules and you'll see that tha rear view cameras have temporarily been placed on the rear bumper while stanrad wing mirrors are on the doors as a diversion. In the end the cameras will obviously be positioned on the A-pillars

Lars997:

 

Again I have to repeat what my Neighbour (owner of a company who is a interior part supplier) told me. He said 2011 - so lets wait and see.

No side mirrors, that's nice.

My dealer said the production of the 991 is 2010 as a 2011 model year. I think maybe that's right, since the 997 out on 2004, so that's more than 6 years already. Plus, the fact is the 997.2 isn't selling well, Porsche need a truly new 911 to complete with other sports cars in the market now.

The reason the 997.2 is selling bad is for sure not only the car itself. I guess this has more to do with the current situation of the economy, which leads into high depreciation of the "old" cars, versus Porsche stills sticks to the new-car sales of max 6 %. And than of course, if you want to put that much money on top, it really has to bring much more on the table as the old one, which indeed is not really given by the 997.2. I feel it on myself, I'm not tempted at all and I dont have the "must have " feeling.

Emperor:

Rossi:

Gnil:

reginos:

The new 911 will have no side mirrors for sake of better aerodynamics, but cameras with images on the inside of the A pillar. The mule mirrors are probably an interim solution.

It will also have a 7 speed manual gearbox.

Entry level car will be a low pressure turbo 3.0lt. Top car a 4.0lt with a 3.6lt in between.

--
It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

Reginos, are those wishes or facts ? How did you get these infos ?
--
 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

No facts so far. Cameras instead of side mirrors are on the wishlist of Porsche development department, but there is no decision yet, if they will make it into production.

--

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

They are not on the wishlist, they are actually on the productionlist and are fact. Several months ago an executive from Porsche's R&D department told an Australian magazine that the new 911 will do without side mirrors and this way back when test mules had not begun rolling on the roads.

Pull up some images of test mules and you'll see that tha rear view cameras have temporarily been placed on the rear bumper while stanrad wing mirrors are on the doors as a diversion. In the end the cameras will obviously be positioned on the A-pillars

Correction: this very executive you are quoting said that it would be really nice to have a new gadget like cameras instead of side mirrors but he wasn't sure at all if they will make it into production.

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

Lars997:

The reason the 997.2 is selling bad is for sure not only the car itself. I guess this has more to do with the current situation of the economy, which leads into high depreciation of the "old" cars, versus Porsche stills sticks to the new-car sales of max 6 %. And than of course, if you want to put that much money on top, it really has to bring much more on the table as the old one, which indeed is not really given by the 997.2. I feel it on myself, I'm not tempted at all and I dont have the "must have " feeling.

Agree and especially after looking at those 991 spy pics.

It will be a hard time to wait all those 997.2 series finish up.

Rossi:

Emperor:

Rossi:

Gnil:

reginos:

The new 911 will have no side mirrors for sake of better aerodynamics, but cameras with images on the inside of the A pillar. The mule mirrors are probably an interim solution.

It will also have a 7 speed manual gearbox.

Entry level car will be a low pressure turbo 3.0lt. Top car a 4.0lt with a 3.6lt in between.

--
It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

Reginos, are those wishes or facts ? How did you get these infos ?
--
 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

No facts so far. Cameras instead of side mirrors are on the wishlist of Porsche development department, but there is no decision yet, if they will make it into production.

--

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

They are not on the wishlist, they are actually on the productionlist and are fact. Several months ago an executive from Porsche's R&D department told an Australian magazine that the new 911 will do without side mirrors and this way back when test mules had not begun rolling on the roads.

Pull up some images of test mules and you'll see that tha rear view cameras have temporarily been placed on the rear bumper while stanrad wing mirrors are on the doors as a diversion. In the end the cameras will obviously be positioned on the A-pillars

Correction: this very executive you are quoting said that it would be really nice to have a new gadget like cameras instead of side mirrors but he wasn't sure at all if they will make it into production.

--

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

Well to me it doesn't get more official than this quote below, and the spyshots speak for themselves. VAG have wallets deeper than the Pacific ocean and are using that money to get a head of the competitors. Just look at the R8 and its LED head lights, Veyron with a monsetour engine, Panamera with illogical performance and the Cayenne with a hybrid engine Mercedes or BMW are not even ready with. Check out the crazy aerodynamic display Porsche is putting on. Cameras are going to replace the side mirrors and it's not crazy considering that the new BMW 7-series has a total of 4 cameras.

Porsche R&D chief Wolfgang Dürheimer :

'There is no more need for old-fashioned protruding door mirrors, the pending pedpro [pedestrian protection] requirements will force us to make relatively obvious alterations to the nose of the car, and for aerodynamic reasons we are also going to reshape the rear end.'

Lars997:

The reason the 997.2 is selling bad is for sure not only the car itself. I guess this has more to do with the current situation of the economy, which leads into high depreciation of the "old" cars, versus Porsche stills sticks to the new-car sales of max 6 %. And than of course, if you want to put that much money on top, it really has to bring much more on the table as the old one, which indeed is not really given by the 997.2. I feel it on myself, I'm not tempted at all and I dont have the "must have " feeling.

What is the % drop of 997.2 vs 997.1 sales?   Any global figures?

Is it more than other comparable cars from other makes, given the economic climate and the consequent credit squeeze, loss of jobs etc?

Anyway the 997.2 is not a new model, it is a FL which happens to introduce technology like DFI and PDK that will also be found in the next model.

However, IMO the drop in 911 sales would have been greater without the 997.2.

 IMO the drop in 911 sales would have been greater without the 997.2.

I'm not sure if this really would have happend - maybe.

There are two owner groups. The one which have bought the car and the one which are leasing. The leasers have normally a 36 months contract, means, after 3 years the car is back on the dealers yard. They look for something new - in this case the 997.2 or any competitor. IMO the facelifts are done anyway just because of the Leasers - thats why they come in their natural turns.

On the other hand the buyers. They dont really have the need to make a change. They even dont want as the price drop was higher as anticipated, so they might relax and sit back and drive the car a little bit longer.

The comment about leaching the competition's cars during a recession reminds me of an exchange between Eva Marie Saint and Yves Montand in the old film "Grand Prix".  Saint was a naive young American and Montand was the old professional Formula One driver who was facing new competition from a new American hotshoe (played by James Garner).  Saint asked Montand if he ever slowed down when he passed a terrible accident during a race.  His cold answer--"When I pass an accident I put my foot down hard on the gas-- because I know everyone else is lifting theirs."

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