Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Panamera - Not a good start - Page1

Feb 17, 2009 9:58:13 AM

Lars997: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: South , Germany; Posts: 9448, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 8, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: Panamera - Not a good start

Yep RC,

I follow with all your comments. The four seats should be optional. As you said, most of time the rear bench is for kids, and they dont want or need single seat frames.

The trend to smaller cars is for sure up. And - as you say, you want to have a bold car, it should be really bold, than you can go for the Panamera.

Further on, I dont like this trunk concept. To much like a station wagon. Again - if I want that, I go for a Cayenne, because the Cayenne can do this much better (because it is higher, flat floor concept, etc.).

Same conclusion here - great product, but for who?

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Feb 17, 2009 9:58:26 AM

Alex_997TT: Rennteam Master; Loc: Reading , United Kingdom; Posts: 3320, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 20, 2005; Reply to: RC

Re: Panamera - Not a good start

RC:

Don't get me wrong: the Panamera is a great product, I just can't see for who?!

--
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

Wendelin Wiedeking

The rear seats were designed to fit for him yeh...

--

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Feb 17, 2009 10:23:33 AM

Ziggy: Expert; Loc:; Posts: 1600, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 27, 2004; Reply to: Alex_997TT

Re: Panamera - Not a good start

The problem with the Panamera is the same as for the Cayenne but to an even greater extend: people try and for some of them finally love it because it has a Porsche badge on it. Replace it by a Nissan or even a BMW badge and people will keep bashing its look (rightly IMO).

OTOH, I like the colors harmony of the cabin in the AutoBild pcitures very much.

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Feb 17, 2009 10:50:08 AM

Misha011: Veteran; Loc: Dubai , United Arab Emirates; Posts: 1234, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 28, 2007; Reply to: Ziggy

Re: Panamera - Not a good start

Like on Cayenne turbo/GTS , front bumper on Panamera turbo change a lot and makes it the best looking in Pana - family - balance out front and rear .

( click to enlarge )

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Feb 17, 2009 10:59:57 AM

Lars997: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: South , Germany; Posts: 9448, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 8, 2002; Reply to: Misha011

Re: Panamera - Not a good start

You are right!

I think I wouldnt hesitate to put a Turbo front bumper on an S. Why not - compare it with BMW / Mercedes / Audi. You can order comparable M/AMG/S-Line equipments/bumpers on any model.

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Feb 17, 2009 11:00:58 AM

Spyderidol: Rennteam Master; Loc: Mozambique; Posts: 5807, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 25, 2007; Reply to: Lars997

Re: Panamera - Not a good start

I actually prefer the 4S.

Maybe because i have'nt seen any photos of the Turbo in a different color . I'm not fond of this color.

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Feb 17, 2009 11:05:50 AM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: Ziggy

Re: Panamera - Not a good start

Ziggy:

The problem with the Panamera is the same as for the Cayenne but to an even greater extend: people try and for some of them finally love it because it has a Porsche badge on it. Replace it by a Nissan or even a BMW badge and people will keep bashing its look (rightly IMO).

OTOH, I like the colors harmony of the cabin in the AutoBild pcitures very much.

Badge is important but without substance any reputation is very short lived.

Look at many examples from automotive history that were great in the 60s and 70s and now they are constantly ill and barely survive because they neglected their products for a long period. Examples that come readily to my mind are Alfa Romeo, Lancia, and Lotus.

On the contrary look at BMW and Audi that came from nowhere and now they are dominant because they offer soundly engineered cars.

Similarly a Porsche with any other name wouldn't be the same car.

--
It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

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Feb 17, 2009 11:05:53 AM

Tim: Pilot; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 458, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 24, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: Panamera - Not a good start

Well honestly, I don't see the problem.

The Panamera is targeted at the S-Class/7/A8 group. While the Panamera may look slightly more interesting and unusual in comparison to its competitors, it's not exactly an outrageous car (judging from pictures as I haven't seen one in real life yet).

There's nothing low-key about driving an S-Class etc. so you might as well go for the Panamera. I don't have any statistics, but I would venture to say that most of these cars are driven by the owner itself- most of the time without any occupants. As a driver's car the Panamera will probably outshine its competition. If you have to lug around business partners from time to time the Panamera will do that just fine in great style as having an individual seat is more comfortable than the usual bench. With regards to the missing seat in the back- would you really squeeze 3 adults in there? Of yourse there might be 1-2 occasions where it would be handy, but it's always a major pain for those who have to sit there.

If you have more than 2 kids, you're anyway better off by going the SUV or RS6 route as the extra luggage space will be vital.

JMHO

Tim

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Feb 17, 2009 12:46:45 PM

Wonderbar: Rennteam Pro; Loc: usa , France; Posts: 2719, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 31, 2005; Reply to: Tim

Re: Panamera - Not a good start

I agree with Tim's comments. While I am not a Panamera buyer now ( I have kids and went for a Cayenne), I could well be after my kids leave the nest. There is real appeal for to be able to take friends out to dinner or nice events, which would not be a possibility for a Carrera, and would be more elegant than a Cayenne. Many of my friends have nice Audi 8s or Lexus or Mercedes or BMW sedans--they want luxury cars but not SUVs or two seater sport cars. A good friend has a Lexus 600L--a fabulous car, but a bit soft on performance and handling, so I am guessing there is a market (even in these times) for a luxury car that performs. My two cents..

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Feb 17, 2009 2:03:43 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21148, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: Panamera - Not a good start

RC:

There is actually one thing I don't like about the interior at all (not mentioning the ugly and aftermarket looking entertainment system): the Panamera is a four seater. Who the heck was the genius making the Panamera a four seater only?--
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

Couldn't agree more and I can't believe this has not been mentioned more often. After some therapy session I think I could live with the rear if I trained myself not to look at it Smiley but only two strict rear seats for such a car??? Smiley

--

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Feb 17, 2009 2:08:38 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59580, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: Panamera - Not a good start

Today we had tons of snow in Bavaria. Never loved my Cayenne so much like today. Smiley

My neighbor in his 5-series BMW couldn't get out of his parking lot.
--
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

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Feb 17, 2009 4:59:14 PM

SciFrog: Rennteam VIP; Loc: USA , United States; Posts: 9870, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 15, 2005; Reply to: RC

Re: Panamera - Not a good start

I agree with RC.

The Cayenne makes more sense with kids and if you need luggage space. Also it will be 10-20% cheaper... My 04 CTT has so much torque it already smokes almost everything that's out there... I can't imagine what the FL TT will be...

The only competition will be the X5M (X6M too small?). I hope Porsche offers a more road oriented car. Basically the opposite as now: one off road Cayenne S equivalent, and 5 road oriented models (base S TT TTS diesel)

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Feb 17, 2009 7:28:47 PM

Super Darius: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Italy-Como , Italy; Posts: 4084, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 7, 2002; Reply to: SciFrog

Re: Panamera - Not a good start

In this last shots i like the Panamera a little much than before...but sure is a car that doesn't match my need of Porsche

like RC said is a great product but for who?

if i need a car for the family i prefer again the Cayenne,if i need a sports car i go for a 911...sure Porsche know who will buy this car,but for me, a Porsche fan..is difficult to find a place for this car..

--
997 TT, what a car/che'mmmmmaghena!!!

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Feb 17, 2009 7:49:37 PM

intouch1: Rennteam Master; Loc: Red Sea , Egypt; Posts: 5752, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2004; Reply to: Super Darius

Re: Panamera - Not a good start

well, if you already have a 911 and a cayenne, then all you need is a panamera :)

--
Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

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Feb 17, 2009 7:53:13 PM

JP66: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Seattle , United States; Posts: 2217, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 10, 2003; Reply to: intouch1

Re: Panamera - Not a good start

I think the real life video pics look great, EXCEPT for the tail lights. They are so big and ugly. They should have been smaller. Also, not a fan of the light colored interior. Black or grey will look nice.
--
05' C4S

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Feb 18, 2009 2:21:15 AM

Ron (Houston): Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Houston, TX , United States; Posts: 8812, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 10, 2002; Reply to: reginos

Re: Panamera - Not a good start

reginos:

In this real life video the car looks very exciting to my eyes. Especially the rear part.

No limousine has looked so sleek and unique in the modern era of cars.

--
It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

I think as you said it IS the video Smiley Smiley .

--
Happy Driving

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Feb 18, 2009 6:46:12 AM

Super Darius: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Italy-Como , Italy; Posts: 4084, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 7, 2002; Reply to: intouch1

Re: Panamera - Not a good start

intouch1:

well, if you already have a 911 and a cayenne, then all you need is a panamera :)

-

and a Boxster and a Cayman.. Smiley

--
997 TT, what a car/che'mmmmmaghena!!!

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Feb 18, 2009 9:12:21 AM

Spyderidol: Rennteam Master; Loc: Mozambique; Posts: 5807, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 25, 2007; Reply to: Super Darius

Re: Panamera - Not a good start

This is what one of the posters over at 6Speed did:

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Feb 18, 2009 9:34:42 AM

ALDO: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany, Black Forrest , Germany; Posts: 3072, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2003; Reply to: Spyderidol

Re: Panamera - Not a good start

ugly!
--

AM

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Feb 18, 2009 11:21:43 AM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12680, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: intouch1

Re: Panamera - Not a good start

intouch1:

well, if you already have a 911 and a cayenne, then all you need is a panamera :)

--
Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley

--

Back again!

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Feb 18, 2009 1:53:03 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: ALDO

Re: Panamera - Not a good start

ALDO:
ugly!
--

AM

Agreed.

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Feb 18, 2009 2:06:26 PM

intouch1: Rennteam Master; Loc: Red Sea , Egypt; Posts: 5752, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2004; Reply to: Crash

Re: Panamera - Not a good start

yuck
--
Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

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Feb 18, 2009 4:23:41 PM

Markdsv: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Schevening , Netherlands; Posts: 1197, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 24, 2007; Reply to: intouch1

Re: Panamera - Not a good start

Got my name down for one and cannot wait to get my hands on her. She should be introduced in the Middle East end 2009, fingers crossed
--
2008 Cayenne Turbo - 2007 BMW X5 4.8is (sold) - 2007 Landcruiser Prado - 1997 Wrangler TJ - 1957 LR

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Feb 18, 2009 6:06:34 PM

intouch1: Rennteam Master; Loc: Red Sea , Egypt; Posts: 5752, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2004; Reply to: Markdsv

Re: Panamera - Not a good start

our local dealer is ready to put my name on the list for the first personally configured car into egypt......at the moment i feel like passing. i simply do not see the need for a panamera for myself unless I would sell my 997 turbo and replace it with a panamera turbo....

the X6 has me covered pretty well in the 4 door department and the X6 M will have me covered even better :)

still plenty of time to decide....

--
Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

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Feb 18, 2009 6:34:05 PM

sayyaaf: Junior; Loc: UAE , United Arab Emirates; Posts: 60, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 18, 2008; Reply to: Markdsv

Re: Panamera - Not a good start

Markdsv:
Got my name down for one and cannot wait to get my hands on her. She should be introduced in the Middle East end 2009, fingers crossed
--
2008 Cayenne Turbo - 2007 BMW X5 4.8is (sold) - 2007 Landcruiser Prado - 1997 Wrangler TJ - 1957 LR

Hellow Mark, I have on order too but in UAE, any idea about the pricing in the ME ?

EDIT: new pics at jalopnik.com

http://jalopnik.com/photogallery/porschepanameramail/

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Feb 18, 2009 8:43:32 PM

Misha011: Veteran; Loc: Dubai , United Arab Emirates; Posts: 1234, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 28, 2007; Reply to: sayyaaf

Re: Panamera - Not a good start

This pics. and some I posted above change not a single (Panamera is ugly / out of proportion) standing ??

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Feb 19, 2009 5:44:44 AM

Spyderidol: Rennteam Master; Loc: Mozambique; Posts: 5807, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 25, 2007; Reply to: Misha011

Re: Panamera - Not a good start

Those are the best Turbo pictures I have seen so far.

I'm not fond of this color (perhaps its just the photos that make everything look so "washed out"), and I also don't care for thos exhaust tips. I prefer the round ones.

Apart from that, the Panamera is becoming more and more liked as it becomes more and more familiar.

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Feb 19, 2009 6:47:33 AM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: Spyderidol

Re: Panamera - Not a good start

I love this side view Smiley

--
It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

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Feb 19, 2009 7:28:08 AM

intouch1: Rennteam Master; Loc: Red Sea , Egypt; Posts: 5752, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2004; Reply to: reginos

Re: Panamera - Not a good start

shooting brake anyone ? Smiley

--
Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

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Feb 19, 2009 7:49:17 AM

KresoF1: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 7856, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2005; Reply to: Misha011

Re: Panamera - Not a good start

Misha,

When I saw first pics of Panamera test mule my reaction was that Porsche is apparently on mission to achieve another "Design Icon" title in the future since I do not know why exactly but, it remainds me in some ways to Citroen DS-true Design Icon of car industry...

Or to Maserati/Citroen SM-another true Desing Icon...

Influence from current 997.2 is not so apparent IMHO...

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