Crown

Not sure if you've already seen these mule photos. Enjoy. 

If the price tag is right, the X6M or even X5M could replace my Cayenne Turbo S (since my Porsche dealer apparently isn't interested in any deal for a new Turbo S).

The power figure is rumored to be in the 540 to 560 HP range, this sounds pretty impressive to me. Base price for the X5M is rumored to be under 100000 EUR, again interesting. Another advantage: it almost looks like an "ordinary" X5.  

from what i understand hp for the X M models will be around the 550 hp. it's rumoured to be the most powerful M so far. engine will be based on the twin turbo 4.4l that I have in my X6 50i.

rc, i have to tell you, that the car is waaay coller than the cayenne. i am enjoying my X6 far more. it's engine and exhaust note is very nice. the little blips it does when manually shifting gears are cool. the ride is very comfortable and nimble and the car really looks damn cool.

where i thought that I will be getting the X6 to drive until the cayenne 2 comes out, I now cannot wait for the X6M. US price will be in the 100k region fully optioned i guess.

IMO these cars are a waste of resources and energy, if they are simply used on the road instead of a fast(er) saloon/estate car.

You can get the same amount of performance with a smaller engine in a lighter normal car and have a more pleasant and pure driving experience.

The essence of an SUV is off-roading and its carrying and towing capacity. Otherwise, it is an exercise in vanity (sit above others) and show-off (look at me).

 +1 

reginos:

IMO these cars are a waste of resources and energy, if they are simply used on the road instead of a fast(er) saloon/estate car.

You can get the same amount of performance with a smaller engine in a lighter normal car and have a more pleasant and pure driving experience.

The essence of an SUV is off-roading and its carrying and towing capacity. Otherwise, it is an exercise in vanity (sit above others) and show-off (look at me). 

05 Boxster S, Arctic Silver, H&R, PSE, FVD Stage 1

08 Carrera 4S, Guards Red, H&R, PSE

reginos:

IMO these cars are a waste of resources and energy, if they are simply used on the road instead of a fast(er) saloon/estate car.

You can get the same amount of performance with a smaller engine in a lighter normal car and have a more pleasant and pure driving experience.

The essence of an SUV is off-roading and its carrying and towing capacity. Otherwise, it is an exercise in vanity (sit above others) and show-off (look at me).

--
It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

It is still a mystery to me what car(s) you own and/or drive.

It would help me a lot if you would mention it in your posts.

To get back to your claim:

1. sportscar drivers should NEVER EVER talk about waste of resources and energy. There is no NEED to drive a sportscar.

2. having two kids, a SUV can do almost everything better than a normal car. Of course I could drive a Diesel with 150 HP instead of a turbo monster with 521 HP but coming from the sportscar world, it would be VERY dangerous for a driver like me to drive an underpowered car, even if it is the family car. You can't easily change your driving habits just by changing the car. So if my sportscar has a lot of power, the family car has to have a lot of power too, it is a matter of safety, believe it or not.

3. fuel consumption depends on the driver, not necessarily on the car. You can get a pretty good mileage out of a Cayenne Turbo if you keep it slow. You can get a pretty bad mileage out of a Toyota Prius if you keep your foot on the throttle.

4. moving 4 persons in one car is more energy and fuel efficient than moving ONE or two persons in another car. Now guess what is better for the environment: YOU moving in a smal fuel efficient car or ME moving my family (another three persons) in a larger car.

5. look at the current oil price which just recently fell again under 40 USD per barrel. Considering the fact that ONE barrel is aprox. 159 liters, do the math and try to understand how much profit oil companies and in some regions (Germany is a very good example) governments are making on oil.

6. the whole environmental stuff has become a HUGE industry, the media also found a new issue to talk about because people simply don't seem to care about other issues like politics or wars anymore. Money talks...

To make it short: I have an employee who rides the bicycle 12 months a year, day and night, during rain or snow, no matter how cold or warm it is. She drives with her car only when it is really necessary, for example when she visits her family on weekends. Her car is a Smart, she has no kids and she doesn't need any extra space for luggage, whatever. She also has solar cells on her roof (for warm water during summer months only) and she usually doesn't use the heating system in her house too much, just in the living room.

This is what I call to be REALLY environmental friendly...if you believe into this stuff and want to make a change. Otherwise, people who drive sportscars and talk about saving the environment are just a bunch of...hipocrites, sorry to say that.

Again: it would help a lot if you would tell us what car(s) you drive because it really is difficult for me to make a comment towards somebody I barely know. No offense intended but since I don't know you, it is difficult to "adapt".

Dear RC thank you for puting forward your arguments.

My objection is against SUVs without any utility characteristics (like the X6) not against fast cars in general.

My main point is that a normal saloon/estate car from a good manufacturer like BMW, Mercedes or VW/Audi with reasonably powerful engine can carry a family equally fast and in comfort as a huge 2.5 ton SUV needing a huge V8 and many(!) turbos to make progress on the road.

The only excuse for an SUV is its off-road/deep snow ability and towing and loading capacity, if you really need it. The X6 has none of the these abilities and it is really a fortress on wheels that generates attention, for now at least. It's pace is similar to a car with half or 2/3 its engine size without any redeeming utility features.

The Cayenne at least has a gear reduction box and locking central differential as standard and can be ordered with a locking rear differential if someone needs a real off-road SUV. If you use it to carry your children to school, then the Cayenne is also a waste.

A sports car is not usually used all day every day. For many people it is a second or third car and a hobby and recreation so it doesn't damage the environment as much.

You are very curious about my cars, although here everyone can state anything without proof and this is why I never bothered about this information till now.

However, I currently own the folowing, some are also used by members of my family:

1. Smart ForTwo
2. VW Beetle
3. Mini Cooper
   
4. Mercedes ML (old) used for towing my ski boat and going to the mountains when there is snow for about 2-3 months in the year.
   
5. Boxster 986 S
6. Carrera S 997.2
   

BTW I can jump from the Carrera into the Smart and adapt my driving style in seconds in spite of the performance difference. Also I can switch from the manual 986 into the PDK 997 again with immediate adjustment.

reginos:

Dear RC thank you for puting forward your arguments.

My objection is against SUVs without any utility characteristics (like the X6) not against fast cars in general.

My main point is that a normal saloon/estate car from a good manufacturer like BMW, Mercedes or VW/Audi with reasonably powerful engine can carry a family equally fast and in comfort as a huge 2.5 ton SUV needing a huge V8 and many(!) turbos to make progress on the road.

The only excuse for an SUV is its off-road/deep snow ability and towing and loading capacity, if you really need it. The X6 has none of the these abilities and it is really a fortress on wheels that generates attention, for now at least. It's pace is similar to a car with half or 2/3 its engine size without any redeeming utility features.

The Cayenne at least has a gear reduction box and locking central differential as standard and can be ordered with a locking rear differential if someone needs a real off-road SUV. If you use it to carry your children to school, then the Cayenne is also a waste.

A sports car is not usually used all day every day. For many people it is a second or third car and a hobby and recreation so it doesn't damage the environment as much.

You are very curious about my cars, although here everyone can state anything without proof and this is why I never bothered about this information till now.

However, I currently own the folowing, some are also used by members of my family:

1. Smart ForTwo
2. VW Beetle
3. Mini Cooper
   
4. Mercedes ML (old) used for towing my ski boat and going to the mountains when there is snow for about 2-3 months in the year.
   
5. Boxster 986 S
6. Carrera S 997.2
   

BTW I can jump from the Carrera into the Smart and adapt my driving style in seconds in spite of the performance difference. Also I can switch from the manual 986 into the PDK 997 again with immediate adjustment.

 

--
It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

        and how much co2 and environmental waste was emitted in the manufacturing process of your 6 cars ???

any car big or small has a right of existence as long as it's buyer enjoys it.

intouch1:

any car big or small has a right of existence as long as it's buyer enjoys it.

--
Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

Very true!

If it makes us happy it cannot be that bad

reginos:

The essence of an SUV is off-roading and its carrying and towing capacity. Otherwise, it is an exercise in vanity (sit above others) and show-off (look at me).

--
It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

Regions,

Is the same as getting the time from your cell phone or from Patek Philippe, it all depends one your taste.

RC:

reginos:

2. ... it would be VERY dangerous for a driver like me to drive an underpowered car, even if it is the family car. You can't easily change your driving habits just by changing the car. So if my sportscar has a lot of power, the family car has to have a lot of power too, it is a matter of safety, believe it or not.

       

ONUR

09 Audi TTS Ibis / 07 CARRERA S Meteor / 05 M3Coupe SilverGrau / 03 M3Coupe Bluewater / 96 M3Coupe EVO Estoril

Seraphim:
I wish BMW M would concentrate on making a CSL or next gen Z4M than the X5M/X6M. 
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V6, V8 or V10?

        I agree. I can understand that a car manafacturer's main concern is to make money and I don't care much about which M cars BMW produces.

BMW can produce whichever car in order to make money as long as they stay loyal to their roots.

I see no problem with having X5/X6 M versions; even M7 can be produced as long as real sports cars are produced such as M3 CSL & Z4 M as well.

ONUR

09 Audi TTS Ibis / 07 CARRERA S Meteor / 05 M3Coupe SilverGrau / 03 M3Coupe Bluewater / 96 M3Coupe EVO Estoril

ONUR

09 Audi TTS Ibis / 07 CARRERA S Meteor / 05 M3Coupe SilverGrau / 03 M3Coupe Bluewater / 96 M3Coupe EVO Estoril

Problem is they are straying away from their roots. The previous boss of the M division used to say that they would never produce a non-R.W.D. and a non-NA.. car. Well, his successor changed all that; shame on him!

PS: I am with Reginos on this one! (as strange as this may be... we usually disagree).

Ron (Houston):

reginos:

The essence of an SUV is off-roading and its carrying and towing capacity. Otherwise, it is an exercise in vanity (sit above others) and show-off (look at me).

--
It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

Regions,

Is the same as getting the time from your cell phone or from Patek Philippe, it all depends one your taste.

--
Happy Driving

  No, it is like your Patek Philippe pretending to be a phone because they both tell the time.

I agree with RC. It is nice to know my CTT can do off-roading but seriously with 20'' performance summer tires costing $450 a piece that can be garbage in a 20mins off road session... Also look how many Cayenne GTS Porsche is selling...

 These new BMW will push Porsche on the next Cayenne. It will have to outperform then like the current CTT out handles the ML63...

REALZEUS:

Problem is they are straying away from their roots. The previous boss of the M division used to say that they would never produce a non-R.W.D. and a non-NA.. car. Well, his successor changed all that; shame on him!

PS: I am with Reginos on this one! (as strange as this may be... we usually disagree).

--
FERRARI RULES!!!

you will see many many sports cars that traditionally had NA engines being turbocharged in the future. it's all about efficiency and turbos have come a long way in terms of lag etc.

the BMW 4.4 twin turbo engine is magnificient. you absolutely feel no lag as opposed to the 4.5 turbo in the gen 1 cayenne. i have not driven a facelift 4.8 turbo but i believe it has the same amount of lag.

as for the m division going with 4wd....why not ? if porsche can build a 4 dour sedan and an suv why shouldn't bmw go for a piece of the cake. in the end higher turn-over with better profits should result in more cash for r&d to make even better m cars in the future.

i think the X6M will be a great car and the experience i am having with my X6 50i has totally steered me away from the cayenne 2. the bmw really is just much more advanced in many ways. and i don't use these cars for offroading either. would i want to offroad, i'd get a beat up defender and customize it for my offroading conditions.....

REALZEUS:
Some things should be about performance and thrills, not efficiency Intouch1. It would be a sad day when the screamers of ths world (Ferrari, Lamborghini etc), with their barking mad 8000+ RPM engines subsided in favour of cars with torquey, turbocharged engines. M cars were always screamers, pure high revving sportcars. CO2 emission standards make life difficult for high revving NA engines and favour turbos but that's no excuse for BMW to produce an X5M instead of a lightweight M3 CSL.
--
FERRARI RULES!!!

        i agree wit you, that they should do both....the X6M will be for some just as thrilling and exciing as an M3 CSL for othes.

high strung vs torquey.....now that's a diferent matter. mostly depns on the typof car the engine goes into. a torquy 4.4 twin turbo certainly fits an SUV better han a high revving 10 cylinder. the bmw fraction are not hpy aboutthis devlopent an tey would rather see the V10.

however, on the street torque is much more important thanhgh revs....for the track it's the other way around.

i ran my gt2 against my buddys scuderia. while they have totally different engines, they matched each other in perfomance. while i love my rather quiet 3.6l tt, he adores his high revving 4.3 8 cylinder. 

for the street, the torquey 3.6 is better suited then the high strung scud engine....

reginos:

A sports car is not usually used all day every day. For many people it is a second or third car and a hobby and recreation so it doesn't damage the environment as much.

You are very curious about my cars, although here everyone can state anything without proof and this is why I never bothered about this information till now.

However, I currently own the folowing, some are also used by members of my family:

1. Smart ForTwo
2. VW Beetle
3. Mini Cooper
   
4. Mercedes ML (old) used for towing my ski boat and going to the mountains when there is snow for about 2-3 months in the year.
   
5. Boxster 986 S
6. Carrera S 997.2
   

BTW I can jump from the Carrera into the Smart and adapt my driving style in seconds in spite of the performance difference. Also I can switch from the manual 986 into the PDK 997 again with immediate adjustment.

--
It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

Sorry for asking about your cars but it is much easier for me (and I suppose others too) to discuss with somebody who knows what he/she is talking about.

Of course you can claim what you want, the internet is pretty much anonymous but lies usually get out sooner or later and it would be just pathetic, especially for an adult.

To get back to the point: I have my problems with the expression "not so much".

You can't protect the environment "a little bit" if you believe in the claims environmentalists make. 

A "little bit" is the little sister of "not so much", both are hipocrites by definition.

I admire people who live by their words. The "little bits" and "not so much's" however are just trying to protect their conscience, not the environment. 

I won't even start to argue with you how environmental "friendly" it is to own six cars...   

To make it short: you brought up the heat, now you have to take it too. 

My "excuse" for  owning a Porsche Cayenne Turbo S is actually pretty blunt: I need a fast family car who can move two kids, a lot of luggage and has some better winter time capabilities too. Would I own the Cayenne without having kids? Definetely NOT. Would I consider to drive something smaller for the sake of the environment? Definetely NOT.

I love the Cayenne Turbo S, it is fast, it moves the whole family from A to B in a pretty safe and comfortable environment. I wouldn't be happy with a Cayenne S or Cayenne V6, not even starting to mention the Diesel.

This is me, I always liked fast and powerful cars.

If you are the same, there is no need for excuses. I understand.

SUVs are good and necessary products...if you enjoy driving them.

Do we need SUVs? Well, people without kids or without a job which requires a huge loading space probably not. Do we need sportscars? Well, there is actually no excuse whatsoever which would justify owning and driving a sportscar. So as "useless" SUVs are to some people, sportscars are even more useless.

Meaning: whoever owns a sportscar should not complaint about SUVs.

It also makes a huge difference regarding the environment if I drive a SUV moving my family from A to B or if I drive a sportscar, moving my a.. from A to B to X to Z...for no reason at all, just for fun.

I hope you don't feel offended by my post, no offense intended. I just want to make you understand that we're actually sitting in the same glass house and you shouldn't try to throw with stones at me.
 

@RC: No offence taken. Thanks for sharing your views with me/us

reginos:

Dear RC thank you for puting forward your arguments.

My objection is against SUVs without any utility characteristics (like the X6) not against fast cars in general.

My main point is that a normal saloon/estate car from a good manufacturer like BMW, Mercedes or VW/Audi with reasonably powerful engine can carry a family equally fast and in comfort as a huge 2.5 ton SUV needing a huge V8 and many(!) turbos to make progress on the road.

The only excuse for an SUV is its off-road/deep snow ability and towing and loading capacity, if you really need it. The X6 has none of the these abilities and it is really a fortress on wheels that generates attention, for now at least. It's pace is similar to a car with half or 2/3 its engine size without any redeeming utility features.

The Cayenne at least has a gear reduction box and locking central differential as standard and can be ordered with a locking rear differential if someone needs a real off-road SUV. If you use it to carry your children to school, then the Cayenne is also a waste.

A sports car is not usually used all day every day. For many people it is a second or third car and a hobby and recreation so it doesn't damage the environment as much.

You are very curious about my cars, although here everyone can state anything without proof and this is why I never bothered about this information till now.

I assume you don't have kids?

Try strapping in kids in a normal sedans then try it again in a SUV like X5,X6 Cayenne etc. Do it like 4 times a day for like 6-10 years, then come back and tell us about your back and which one you prefer. This is just one of the utilities a SUV can provide without going offroad.

As you are from Cyprus, I assume snow is not a problem for you, but ground clearance is quite a bit more important than traction at times, unless one prefer to use the front bumper as shovel. A soft offroader like X5,X6 has the ground clearance to get over pack snow/ice, with proper winter tires, the basic awd system in them will get through almost anything better than say a A4 quattro with winter tires. Difference being the ground clearance.

Personally, I  do not subscribe to the idea that modern cars do great damage to the enviroment.  A 10+ year old automobile, and especially those without catalytic converters, yes for sure, but cars made in the last 5 years? no for sure. Most of the cars made in the last few years emit cleaner air than those they breath in.

My theory is that if one really care for the enviroment because of their so called 'carbon footprint', first thing they should do is refuse electricity supplied by a coal burning plants, those things emits the MAJORITY of the CO2 human produced.

throt

"I didn't do it"

Thanks Whoopsy, you put a different perspective to the discussion.

Sure some parameters I haven't thought about.