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    Re: 4 - Zylinder confirmed!

    What really is the justification for (re-) introducing a 4-cylinder Porsche? Is carbon emissions  the primary reason? Once Porsche gobbles up VW, does not the CO2 average get spread among the entire VW/Porsche fleet?

     As regards a mid-engined 4-cylinder Porsche, have we not seen one already in the 70's, i.e. 914? Given that, a  shared venture with VW wouldn't be the first time Porsche and VW collaborated together on a "sports" car.

     Regardless of what happens, dreamcar is right. Porsches are everywhere. I was at a suburban stoplight today; including my own car, the group of 15 waiting cars included a 997.1, 987.1, 986.2 and 986.1. That P-cars are more common (and more reliable) doesn't bother me. What would bother me is if non-car guys get outnumbered in their Porsches by the "me too" crowd ...also driving Porsches. Then I'll know it's time to move on to the remaining dedicated sports car marques -which, in similar price brackets, leaves Lotus at the entry-level end, and Ferrari toward the (way) higher-end. 'Till then, it's the Boxster S and maybe a 997 S for me.

    --
    2008 Boxster S

    Re: 4 - Zylinder confirmed!

    To put things into perspective, Porsche made just below 100,000 cars in 2008. With the luck the Panamera could add another 20,000.

    A drop in the ocean of world car production which is around 50million passenger cars now.

    Germany makes some 5.5 million and BMW which is still a niche brand produce some 1.4 million.

    So please don't complain that Porsches are everywhere.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: 4 - Zylinder confirmed!

    Misha011:

    I would be much happier with :  4cyl. 'boxer' DFI turbo  +  7spd PDK     Smiley

     

    wwwwwwwwwwowww!! it's soundss greattttttttt!!Smiley
     

     


            


    Re: 4 - Zylinder confirmed!

    Alberto986:
    Misha011:

    I would be much happier with :  4cyl. 'boxer' DFI turbo  +  7spd PDK     Smiley

     

    wwwwwwwwwwowww!! it's soundss greattttttttt!!Smiley
     

         


            A Boxster that sounds like a Subaru Impreza? No thanks - I'll stay with the flat six. Smiley


    --
    Boxster S 3.4 06 Cobalt / Ocean Blue BMW 123d M Sport 08 Le Mans Blue / Lemon

    Re: 4 - Zylinder confirmed!

    dreamcar:

            A Boxster that sounds like a Subaru Impreza? No thanks - I'll stay with the flat six. Smiley


    +1 Smiley

    I'm happy if Porsche go in a weight-saving direction though.


    Re: 4 - Zylinder confirmed!

    Well i fully understand their environmental/cost stance, but surely the better and smarter :D option would be to produce a small engine town/commute car like the original Smart car - low emissions, low cost, innovative design and so far displaced from the rest of the range that it doesn't under mine the rest of the range.

    The Smart project wasn't exactly profitable for Daimler/Chrysler but i bet they learnt a lot from it


    Re: 4 - Zylinder confirmed!

    percymon:

    The Smart project wasn't exactly profitable for Daimler/Chrysler but i bet they learnt a lot from it

    But what if all they learned was that developing the Smart car range hadn't really been  such a smart idea after all? Smiley

    Fortwo is still selling, but Forfour and Roadster had to be killed off   -   I think it would be a stretch to claim that "one out of three ain't bad". Smiley


    --
    fritz

    Re: 4 - Zylinder confirmed!

    Seems like a lot of whining about brand perception. A great car is a great car regardless of price or brand.

    If Porsche makes a great 4-cylinder Boxster...I'm happy. If they compromise the driving experience of the Boxster for the sake of emissions and more sales....I'm unhappy.

    But to get all weepy about some speculation on a car you haven't seen or driven is melodramatic babble.


    Re: 4 - Zylinder confirmed!

    its reported in a dutch mag. that the new 4 cil engine with turbo in a 987 test mule is having cooling problems because of the rear layout less cooling air is avail .for engine cooling.

    Re: 4 - Zylinder confirmed!

    alexander:
    its reported in a dutch mag. that the new 4 cil engine with turbo in a 987 test mule is having cooling problems because of the rear layout less cooling air is avail .for engine cooling.

    According to the "Autocar" magazine, Porsche consider 4 cylinder turbo engines to solve the problem of engine cooling they had with 6 cylinder turbos during testing.

    Porsche want to develop and offer small capacity turbo engines to reduce emissions and consumption.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: 4 - Zylinder confirmed!

    cym104:

    If Porsche makes a great 4-cylinder Boxster...I'm happy. If they compromise the driving experience of the Boxster for the sake of emissions and more sales....I'm unhappy.

    But to get all weepy about some speculation on a car you haven't seen or driven is melodramatic babble.

    Well start reach for some tissues because in case you haven't realised, fitting a small VW 4 cil non-atmospheric engine on a Porsche Boxster is precisely going to do that, compromise its driving experience, except maybe for those who can't tell one engine from the other and just want a 4cilVW-Boxster for the badge.

    --

    Re: 4 - Zylinder confirmed!

    cym104:

    A great car is a great car regardless of price or brand.

    If Porsche makes a great 4-cylinder Boxster...I'm happy. If they compromise the driving experience of the Boxster for the sake of emissions and more sales....I'm unhappy.

    Smiley +1


    --
    fritz

    Re: 4 - Zylinder confirmed!

    cym104:

    Seems like a lot of whining about brand perception. A great car is a great car regardless of price or brand.

    If Porsche makes a great 4-cylinder Boxster...I'm happy. If they compromise the driving experience of the Boxster for the sake of emissions and more sales....I'm unhappy.

    But to get all weepy about some speculation on a car you haven't seen or driven is melodramatic babble.


            The flat six is the heart and soul of the Boxster, as it is in any Porsche sports car. I wouldn't need to see one, hear one or drive one to know it would no longer be a Porsche, just a (presumably) expensive VW.  Smiley


    --
    Boxster S 3.4 06 Cobalt / Ocean Blue BMW 123d M Sport 08 Le Mans Blue / Lemon

    Re: 4 - Zylinder confirmed!

     

    The brand overlap is already underway... VW 'Bluesport' at Detroit. 4 cylinder, diesel....

    http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/volkswagen-world/news/item/122


    Re: 4 - Zylinder confirmed!

    The concern isn't the number of cylinders, it's the power to weight ratio and the available torque. A flat four powered Porsches for many years w/ distinction. One need only recall the 4 cam engine of the late 50s and its racing heritage.  The issue is that today's requirements for safety and "crashability" have resulted in voluminous and heavy vehicles. The agility of previous Porsches was based on lightweight cars that could perform well with small high revving engines.  Over time as cars became heavier and larger the displacement of the flat six increased progressively from the initial 2.0 liters. The 2.5 liter engine of the original 986 Boxster produced more HP and torque  than a 1970 911S with 2.2 liter displacement, but the weight differential provides the 1970 car w/ a very different performance level. Unless very expensive materials are utilized, the weight of modern automobiles is not going to decrease substantially. Unless a  4 cylinder 987 or its successor is going to be built in the manner of a CGT I would not expect extraordinary performance. 
    --
    Carpe Diem

    Re: 4 - Zylinder confirmed!

    DaveC:
     Unless a  4 cylinder 987 or its successor is going to be built in the manner of a CGT I would not expect extraordinary performance. 
    --

    Well, I suspect that a 4-cylinder Boxster would have the primary function of helping to reduce the CO2 emissions average of all Porsche cars, not taking on all comers at the Nürburgring.

    The flat-six version will still be abe to provide the extraordinary performance for those who want it and are prepared to pay for it. But, in a way, only because there is a little brother helping to reduce the average CO2 emissions to keep the bigger-engined models "honest"   ...............  but I already said that, didn't I? Smiley


    --
    fritz

    Re: 4 - Zylinder confirmed!

    I would object to Porsche stopping the 6 cylinder engines for the Boxster.

    If however, they add a 4 cylinder to the range for political reasons, what is the problem? Enthusiasts would still choose the 6 cylinder. Others can enjoy the 4 C, which I am sure will still be very good but slower and less special.

    Like I always say, the Cayenne diesel won't make the GT2 any slower or less special.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: 4 - Zylinder confirmed!

    wtsnet:

     

    The brand overlap is already underway... VW 'Bluesport' at Detroit. 4 cylinder, diesel....

    http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/volkswagen-world/news/item/122

     


            Well spotted, that man! What's the betting that's the car Boxster 988 will be based on? Smiley
    Smiley


    --
    Boxster S 3.4 06 Cobalt / Ocean Blue BMW 123d M Sport 08 Le Mans Blue / Lemon

    Re: 4 - Zylinder confirmed!

    No dreamcar, a possible new 914

    Bluemotion is only 3,99m length


    Re: 4 - Zylinder confirmed!

    According to the press the VW will be in the Elise class.

    However, it could form the basis for a sub-Boxster Porsche roadster.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the Bluesport is being developed by Porsche.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: 4 - Zylinder confirmed!

    dreamcar:
    wtsnet:

    The brand overlap is already underway... VW 'Bluesport' at Detroit. 4 cylinder, diesel....

    http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/volkswagen-world/news/item/122


            Well spotted, that man! What's the betting that's the car Boxster 988 will be based on? Smiley
    Smiley


    Smiley Yeah, I saw it on the news somewhere and went to look it up. Seems quite a radical departure for VW. I don't think it's for production, but it does look suspiciously mini-Boxster. I guess keep an ear out for what they intend to do with the concept. Smiley

    Re: 4 - Zylinder confirmed!

    Who cares, 4 cylinders or 6. Really does not make a difference as long as there is enough power. If the 4 cylinder has 300 hp, I don't know what the concern is. They need to do something to meet emission standards. Driving dynamics is key here. Many people would argue that Porsche's top models should have 8 cylinder engines like a Corvette or Ferrari! Porsche has stuck to the straight six and will continue to build some of the best, if not the best cars on the planet. Lets see what happens before we all slit our wrists.

    I have owned a few VW and I think they were great vehicles, obviously not a Porsche, but great driving and value for my money until I could afford more expensive German automobiles.


    --
    Porsche Crazed - Boxster 987 Speed Yellow/Black

    Re: 4 - Zylinder confirmed!

    timlb:

    Who cares, 4 cylinders or 6. Really does not make a difference as long as there is enough power. If the 4 cylinder has 300 hp, I don't know what the concern is. --
    Porsche Crazed - Boxster 987 Speed Yellow/Black


    I disgree - it makes the world of a difference.        It is not just the power it is how it is delivered. There is no way any four cylinder engine, no matter how good, could be as good either aurally or in terms of smoothness and power delivery as a good six - and Porsche (along with BMW) make the best 6 cylinder engines out there.

     



    --
    Boxster S 3.4 06 Cobalt / Ocean Blue BMW 123d M Sport 08 Le Mans Blue / Lemon

    Re: 4 - Zylinder confirmed!

    dreamcar:

    I disgree - it makes the world of a difference.        It is not just the power it is how it is delivered. There is no way any four cylinder engine, no matter how good, could be as good either aurally or in terms of smoothness and power delivery as a good six - and Porsche (along with BMW) make the best 6 cylinder engines out there.


    X2


    --

    Re: 4 - Zylinder confirmed!

    wtsnet:
    dreamcar:
    wtsnet:

    The brand overlap is already underway... VW 'Bluesport' at Detroit. 4 cylinder, diesel....

    http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/volkswagen-world/news/item/122


    Well spotted, that man! What's the betting that's the car Boxster 988 will be based on? Smiley
    Smiley


    Smiley Yeah, I saw it on the news somewhere and went to look it up. Seems quite a radical departure for VW. I don't think it's for production, but it does look suspiciously mini-Boxster. I guess keep an ear out for what they intend to do with the concept. Smiley
    It seems to me more like a sub Audi TT to be honest. It is very interesting that VW is coming with such a car given the current political stuff going on with takeovers and whatnot. I'd be happy to see this new VW driving around. And i don't think we'll see a baby boxster ever... because in house they already got the TT, A1 cab and also this VW roadster... boxster.


    --

    2005 Ford Focus S, 5spd
    1986 Porsche 944, 5spd


    Re: 4 - Zylinder confirmed!

    I own both the 2.0l 4 cylinder DE turbo in an Audi and the flat six in my Boxster. Both are great engines. Would I swap engines? No. Each is perfectly suited to its model in their current iterations.

    I wouldn't entertain buying a 4-cylinder Boxster unless it was as unique, wonderful, etc as the 6.

    The melodrama seems to stem from the fact that people think the 4 will trump the 6. If it augments the lineup, where's the harm?


     
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