Crown

SciFrog:
What bothers me is not the diesel, they work well for SUV. But 240hp? Should be 300hp at least IMHO...

The output of this Audi engine was increased recently from 230 to 240HP. I suspect that tuning it further might cause emission/consumption trade-offs.

The bigger Audi TDI is the V8 4.2 with a rated output of 326HP. This power would suit the cayenne more, but I suppose PAG wanted the Diesel as a starting/economy model. 

Cayenne Diesel is for people who are fuel consumption cautious NOT performance oriented.

Porsche wants the Cayenne Diesel to have the LOWEST fuel consumption of the line-up, hence the off-the-shelf V6 Audi diesel not too powerful !!!!

I guess, Porsche will NEVER come with a 500hp V10 diesel because it would not help the gas-guzzler image.

I think it's a very smart idea.

a) If it's a real flop --> no big deal, no diesel on Cayenne II

b) If it's a real success and it doesn't ruin the brand image --> Cayenne II will also have a diesel alternative.

Anyway, days are numbered for the current Cayenne, it should be replaced in 2010 --> Current Cayenne diesel should be around only for 12-18 month

Great points Eric.  Thanks. 

I think 2010 will be the time for me to trade-in my Cayenne for a new model.  My 2004 has 110k miles now.  The spyshots of the new model look good.

RC:

Fact is: the Cayenne is a Porsche, it has been developed by Porsche and as far as rumors go, Porsche received around 200 Mio. EUR from Volkswagen for the development of the Touareg. Apparently a lot of people think it is the other way around but it isn't.

According to my knowledge, the chassis showed signs of stress during development when fitted with the V10 diesel engine from Volkswagen. The amount and immediacy of torque delivery was the main reason to reinforce the chassis which, probably for economical reasons, were incorporated into the whole productrange. One Porsche engineer promoted the increased torsional rigidity over the direct competitors if one would go off-road but the Cayenne could have come out lighter and therefor more efficient and agile. Porsche certainly did a tremendous job if it comes to the handling of both cars, Touareg and Cayenne.

However I wholeheartedly agree and mentioned if several years ago, that the lack of attention in regards of efficiency on the Cayenne, especially linked to the choice of engines available, will result in a massive rebound for Porsche and their customers.

Up until very recently there was absolutely no need for a rebound in Cayenne sales ... During past fiscal year, they reached an ALL time HIGH level of 45,478 units ....

FY 02/03: 20,603 (launched in January 03 in Europe and March in the US and RoW)

FY 03/04: 39,913

FY 04/05: 41,884

FY 05/06: 34,134

FY 06/07: 33,943

FY 07/08: 45,478

Does this sound familiar: get three Cayenne and you get a GT2?  The production/sale figures don't say much about the success of the Cayenne.

Porsche wants to offer a Cayenne Diesel? No problem with that. Give it the V12 monster Diesel from the Q7.

Porsche wants to offer a V6 in a 2.5 t Cayenne? Wrong decision.

I don't get it: Porsche is a sportscar manufacture in my opinion. If they want to expand the portfolio, thats fine to me but please not with models/engines which simply DO NOT belong in a sportscar/Porsche.

Now that Porsche owns Volkswagen and the attached companies, I doubt there is a need for models which don't fit the portfolio.

Yes, they need to lower the fleet consumption but they could do that by unifying Volkswagen with Porsche in a way or another(at least to make it "valid" for the fleet consumption stuff), making the way clear for PURE Porsche models which deserve the brand name.

Sorry if I sound arrogant or whatever but a Porsche Cayenne V6 is no Porsche for me.

I already had my problems with the first gen Boxster 986 with 220 HP, the Cayenne Diesel is a joke in my opinion and if Porsche wants to sell a 300 HP Panamera, thats fine to me but for ME, this is no Porsche, sorry.

A Porsche needs to offer better performance than comparable products in the same class but apparently Porsche doesn't understand this.

Porsche will have a lot of trouble when BMW introduces the new M5 and especially the new X5 and X6 M versions which will be a blast to drive for substantially less money than for example a Cayenne Turbo.

I love Porsche but my loyalty doesn't go past stupidity or blindness, sorry.

@RC

Porsche is on the way from Luxury into the upper class segment. With cars like the Panamera and the rumours about the 4 Cylinder Boxster you clearly can see, that they want to make higher numbers of cars instead of more luxury cars.

Unfortunately not the Porsche is nowadays the myth it is the shareholder value which is the myth!

Underpowered Audi diesel cayenne, 4-cil boxster, station-wagon like Panamera, etc... each day a bit less of a Porsche fan and just a 911 fan.

Porsche is getting away with a lot of things thanks to its brand image created by decades of excellence in street sportcars and motorsport, but I hope they realise that the image tab is going to run soon out if they keep up this road, and then they will be just another AUDI or BMW... or maybe thats what they want since whats best for shareholders is not necesarily best for Porsche fans.

...and that is the crux of the biscuit!

So sad, but very true.

Carlos from Spain:

Underpowered Audi diesel cayenne, 4-cil boxster, station-wagon like Panamera, etc... each day a bit less of a Porsche fan and just a 911 fan.

Porsche is getting away with a lot of things thanks to its brand image created by decades of excellence in street sportcars and motorsport, but I hope they realise that the image tab is going to run soon out if they keep up this road, and then they will be just another AUDI or BMW... or maybe thats what they want since whats best for shareholders is not necesarily best for Porsche fans.

The points you make are very obvious Carlos but the name of the game is survival in the face of ever increasing rules and regulations and an unstable economic climate. IMO the days of the "fat cows" are over for car manufacturers and only the clever and those who don't follow cliches will survive.

Porsche could very well be in the positions of Aston, lotus, maserati and lamborghini chronically ailing and changing hands every 5-10 years or more often. For me Porsche's status is more preferable. And with 100,000+ cars they very far from the 1.5 million BMWs or how many Audis.

If a person doesn't  like the diesel cayenne or the panamera or the rumoured 4c boxster he is free to spend his cash on a GT2 or a GT3/RS or why not a Carrera GT or even a Cup and go racing and he can be the king of the road and track. A choice for everyone and every purse, why not? The diesel cayenne doesn't make the GT2 any less slower or less special. When the 3.3 air-cooled turbo was king in the 70s, Porsche also made the 924 2.0 lt with a 4c engine from a VW van. No one complained then because there was no real relevance.

Reginos, this is thoughtful post, thanks.  I would add that many people here in southern France greatly admire Porsches, but want a diesel.  Virtually every SUV--and most other cars as well--are diesels.  My view is that, by expanding into the diesel market, Porsche will not only expand its sales and base in a changing environment, but will impress people with its recognition of changing needs and trends.  Without a diesel product, Porsche could well be viewed as elitist.  With it, it makes the brand more appealing (and financially more stable), and sets a potential buyer up later for the sports car (Carrerra, etc.) purchase.  Brand loyalty is key, and many purchasers work their way up the performance and luxury ladder.  And you can bet there is a turbo diesel in the works, for those who want their diesel with more punch.

Having said all of this, I am a performance freak, and I would not buy a Porsche diesel.  That doesn't mean I regard Porsche as a sell-out.  I just choose another example of the marque. 

reginos:

The points you make are very obvious Carlos but the name of the game is survival in the face of ever increasing rules and regulations and an unstable economic climate.

There is a line between making hard compromises just to be able to survive, and making them for more profits and transformation into a bigger more generalistic company.

Porsche is past the hard times now, and is now the most profitable car company in the world with a solid economical foundation that is the envy of the sector, buying off market giants like the VW group, yet it is now that they are making these desitions such as going diesel after 5 decades, and a poor performing one at that, lowering the introductory model with an outsourced 4-cil engine, a Panamera station-wagon with likely a diesel engine in the furure, etc.

No its not about surviving like it has been in the past several times, now its about shareholders being the prime and only focus now and "mo' money" (mind they have every right to though). The company will likely do even beter than now through this road, but with a different customer base as well, hence the resentment from the hardcore Porsche fans who are left out in favour of the more numerous BMW-AUDI-Lexus-Merc etc customers and also badge buyers.

On the good side, the 911 will likely remain strong and unchanged, so its nota all bad, just don't expect me to buy another Porsche model for my garage besides the 911 just because it has the Porsche badge, if someone else offers me the same for less. Thats why Porsche better be reasonable with their prices, give more back to the clients (like more that a 2 year base warranty), etc because they can't milk the image cow forever.

My love child... 

Quick question: Is the Cayenne Diesel comming to the US? Or only the hybrid? 

Thanks

wow - i really have to disagree with many of the "Porsche essence" posts on this thread.

go look at the original Porsche product and read the books on the old stuff. if you had to pick the essence of Porsche, it is clearly NOT power :handling pure and simple.  They have  proved time and time again, that a killer suspension system, proper weight displacment and braking would out fun, out gun and out last pure power.

to dismiss the diesel cayenne on the basis soley that the engine is too small is without merit imo.

the cayenne is the best handling vehicle in class and in that regards would make any of the now deceased Porsche family proud imo.

CPA4S:

wow - i really have to disagree with many of the "Porsche essence" posts on this thread.

 

go look at the original Porsche product and read the books on the old stuff. if you had to pick the essence of Porsche, it is clearly NOT power :handling pure and simple.  They have  proved time and time again, that a killer suspension system, proper weight displacment and braking would out fun, out gun and out last pure power.

 

to dismiss the diesel cayenne on the basis soley that the engine is too small is without merit imo.

 

the cayenne is the best handling vehicle in class and in that regards would make any of the now deceased Porsche family proud imo.

 

 

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08 RS 60 Spyder 08 GTS-6spd Manual 06 LR3-V8 HSE 04 C4S sold 08 Cayenne Turbo PDCC sold

1. I doubt that the Cayenne is currently the best handling product in its class. Look at the X6 for example or even the somehow larger Q7.

2. yes, you're right. Porsche was never about high power figures but about handling...AND weight. If Porsche would build a Cayenne at a weight figure of around 2 tons and lower, I wouldn't make any complaints about the power of the Diesel engine or the V6.

3. if the power/weight ratio isn't OK, the fun (handling...remember?) is gone. I drove the Cayenne S a couple of times and even the Cayenne S is somehow underpowered in my opinion but some people may be able to live with it. 

At 2.5 tons, the Diesel engine power and the V6 power are a joke, they are NOT fun to drive. Sure...the Diesel is turbo charged and it feels more powerful in the lower rev range but this is only a feeling, nothing more.

I love Porsche and their products but this doesn't mean I have to love everything they do. Some of their products suck in a way or another and in my opinion, the Cayenne Diesel is clearly my "favorite" regarding this matter.

bobr:
I believe only the Hybrid at this point...Understand he Audi Q7 will be available with diesel engine
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2006 987S, Artic Silver, Cocoa, Cocoa Top 2006 Cayenne S Lapis Blue New York

We had the chance to drive the Audi V12 Diesel and trust me, if you drive this monster once, you'll never want to drive a different Diesel in a SUV again.  It felt more powerful than the 521 HP engine in our first gen Cayenne Turbo S, only the handling was a bit disappointing, the steering was somehow weird, not as direct as I expected. Maybe the V12 engine is too heavy for the Q7?

Honestly: if Porsche would fit this engine into the Cayenne, I would buy/lease it immediately.

We didn't have much chance to drive with the Q7 V12 Diesel on the Autobahn but we pushed it pretty hard when it was possible. Over 180 km distance, the Diesel consumption was at around 17.5 litres/100 km. Under the same conditions, my Cayenne Turbo S would have eaten at least 7-8 liters/100 km more fuel. Great engine.

RC:

We didn't have much chance to drive with the Q7 V12 Diesel on the Autobahn but we pushed it pretty hard when it was possible. Over 180 km distance, the Diesel consumption was at around 17.5 litres/100 km. Under the same conditions, my Cayenne Turbo S would have eaten at least 7-8 liters/100 km more fuel. Great engine.

So you are the one responsible for global warming...    
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Back again!  

Rossi:

So you are the one responsible for global warming...    
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Back again!  

antonio_spain:
I think that a Porsche Diesel is rubbish

A Porsche Diesel is not rubbish.

What is rubbish is a Porsche Diesel with a ridiculous low HP output figure.

A Porsche always was about performance and weight.

A power to weight ratio of 6kg/HP is a minimum ratio for a car to be fun to drive. 

Now do the math with the Cayenne Diesel or any other underpowered Porsche model. 

Rumor has it that the current Audi Diesel is just some sort of intermediate solution until the new Cayenne generation is coming, incl. a completely new(and hopefully more powerful) Diesel engine. The Hybrid apparently will be based on the V6 engine, not on the Diesel.

RC:

Rumor has it that the current Audi Diesel is just some sort of intermediate solution until the new Cayenne generation is coming, incl. a completely new(and hopefully more powerful) Diesel engine. The Hybrid apparently will be based on the V6 engine, not on the Diesel.

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

        V6 3.0 TFSI 374hp

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/02/02/volkswagen-touareg-hybrid-with-supercharged-v6-joining-bluemotio/

Interesting thread, there are no "right or wrong" answers here.

Porsche has to do what it has to do to make a profit. Its an empire not a tiny little niche car manufacturer any more. Its not as exclusive as it was but who cares? Do you buy a car because of its exclusivity or because you love it? Personally, I buy what I like. I don't care about my neighbours. 

To make a profit they need new blood - new customers, people who are not exactly

"enthusiasts"  but like cars and care about what they drive. SADLY there are more of them than us. And unless, we change our cars every year, or buy at least two the shareholders who want more sales, more profit and the workers who want pay increases etc - which they ALL deserve! That or we can allow Porsche to completely take us tp the cleaners in regards to servicing costs and parts etc.

I love Porsche and have only ONE other car with my own money since 1992 - since then only Porsche - ( I got my drivers license in 1990)  BUT, we cannot compare to Porsche to

Aston Martin, Ferrari, Lamborghini etc etc etc - they really are exclusive. The latter two have big names holding their hands as we all know. Aston has more ownership changes than cars it can produce!