Crown

WAY:
Hey AUM, I think you need to organise a medidation session for all involved in the GT-R thread so we can all learn to stay calm.   (is that really you?)

Yes it is really me and I teach meditation every weekend at various European locations. Meditation can improve lap times by increasing awareness. Everyone is welcome!

http://www.ishwara.com/satsang.htm 

AUM:

WAY:
Hey AUM, I think you need to organise a medidation session for all involved in the GT-R thread so we can all learn to stay calm.   (is that really you?)

Yes it is really me and I teach meditation every weekend at various European locations. Meditation can improve lap times by increasing awareness. Everyone is welcome!

http://www.ishwara.com/satsang.htm 

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The link does not work for me.

BTW,  is it blue background because you put different pictures as background:)

2006 C4S --to be ditched soon..

Suzuki Burgman AN400

reginos:

AUM, you made yourself very clear with your posts and with this latest one.

IMO the GT-R issue with its + and - has been exhausted long time ago.

I find it boring all of us repeating the same things day after day with nothing definite coming out of it.

Obvious explanation:

As a Buddhist, AUM is a great believer in the power of mantras.

Definition of "Mantra": A slogan or phrase often repeated.

AUM's pronouncements on the GT-R are just some of the mantras he repeats every day in the hope that they will come true.

Still waiting for Sport Auto's Supertest report. 

fritz:

reginos:

AUM, you made yourself very clear with your posts and with this latest one.

IMO the GT-R issue with its + and - has been exhausted long time ago.

I find it boring all of us repeating the same things day after day with nothing definite coming out of it.

Obvious explanation:

As a Buddhist, AUM is a great believer in the power of mantras.

Definition of "Mantra": A slogan or phrase often repeated.

AUM's pronouncements on the GT-R are just some of the mantras he repeats every day in the hope that they will come true.

Still waiting for Sport Auto's Supertest report. 

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fritz

track vid

0-300kph

chasing a 997GT2

MKSGR:

Walter:

MKSGR: 

Did you read the summary of the test? Also, you might check the lap times Both exercises will clearly answer your above question

It clearly answered the question about Porsche's claim. it's not quite the 20 second difference they wanted us to believe in.

It's also clear that the Nissan showed once again that it is the superior product. It costs less, it's easier to drive, it has more comfort features and despite being heavier, less powerful and less track focused it managed to keep up with the GT2. 

Must be hard for desperate Nissan fans to read this test result, right 

 Nissan GTR = POS (just kidding, of course  )

Really? I think they can be quite happy about this test results. You make it sound like a tragedy for the GT-R but the reality is quite different. Quoting Chris Harris:

"It emerges from this test with an even stronger set of credentials"

Queram:

AUM:

WAY:
Hey AUM, I think you need to organise a medidation session for all involved in the GT-R thread so we can all learn to stay calm.   (is that really you?)

Yes it is really me and I teach meditation every weekend at various European locations. Meditation can improve lap times by increasing awareness. Everyone is welcome!

http://www.ishwara.com/satsang.htm 

--

The link does not work for me.

 

Go to ishwara.com and click on Satsang for my teaching schedule. 

BTW I am not a buddhist. 

AUM:

BTW I am not a buddhist. 

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OK, so does that just leave the Hindu and Jain faiths? (I assume that we can rule out the possibility of you being a Sihk, since you were not wearing a turban in your photograph)? 

I do not subscribe to any religion. If you are interested in my spiritual teaching, please go to the ebooks page on ishwara.com and read my book Unity.

This subject if very off topic for this thread.

gangajas:

MKSGR:

Walter:

MKSGR: 

Did you read the summary of the test? Also, you might check the lap times Both exercises will clearly answer your above question

It clearly answered the question about Porsche's claim. it's not quite the 20 second difference they wanted us to believe in.

It's also clear that the Nissan showed once again that it is the superior product. It costs less, it's easier to drive, it has more comfort features and despite being heavier, less powerful and less track focused it managed to keep up with the GT2. 

Must be hard for desperate Nissan fans to read this test result, right 

 Nissan GTR = POS (just kidding, of course  )

Really? I think they can be quite happy about this test results. You make it sound like a tragedy for the GT-R but the reality is quite different. Quoting Chris Harris:

"It emerges from this test with an even stronger set of credentials"

Drivers Republic: GT-R vs GT2 Nürburgring lap comparison...

"Chris Harris provides commentary to accompany a new DR video edit, which provides simultaneous in-car views from both cars on their fastest laps..."

Link: DR-video-link

Background: DR-lap-comparison

This video is most interesting as it further highlights that the GTR indeed has the exact problems I speculated about some weeks/months ago:

- Understeer in slower turns

- Feels "big and heavy"

- Brake power reflects too high weight.

What a surprise  

 In summary, this video highlights (even more so than the text) that the GTR is in a very different league than the GT2. More important, the entire concept of the GTR (weight, size, weight distibution, AWD) will prevent this car from ever playing in a similar league as the GT2.

• Track conditions clearly not perfect (e.g. some oil on track from earlier incidents)
• Chris mentions short-shifting several times in the GT2 to manage the torque delivery, where the GT-R was able to go flat with the double-clutch gearbox and 4WD
• GT-R "technically impressive", but a very different experience to the GT2
• GT2 achieved a notable speed advantage on uphill "power" sections (e.g. +9mph)
• Chris estimates that a top of the podium 'Ring racer could lap maybe 10-15sec faster

MKSGR:

In summary, this video highlights (even more so than the text) that the GTR is in a very different league than the GT2. More important, the entire concept of the GTR (weight, size, weight distibution, AWD) will prevent this car from ever playing in a similar league as the GT2.

Wasn't the Scuderia 6 seconds slower than the GT2 in the Sport Auto test? Does that mean that the Scuderia is not in the same league as the GT2?

Wasn't this the same privately owned GT-R that nearly lost a drag race against the 100hp weakier 997.2 S with the PDK transmission? 

I still don't understand how some of you see this as a "clear victory" for Porsche. I really don't.

A good summary of the relative performance over the lap...



...with all due respect to DR!

Walter:

MKSGR:

In summary, this video highlights (even more so than the text) that the GTR is in a very different league than the GT2. More important, the entire concept of the GTR (weight, size, weight distibution, AWD) will prevent this car from ever playing in a similar league as the GT2.

Wasn't the Scuderia 6 seconds slower than the GT2 in the Sport Auto test? Does that mean that the Scuderia is not in the same league as the GT2?

Wasn't this the same privately owned GT-R that nearly lost a drag race against the 100hp weakier 997.2 S with the PDK transmission? 

I still don't understand how some of you see this as a "clear victory" for Porsche. I really don't.

May I also add a couple of things:

The GT-R is clearly not in the same league as the Porsche 997 GT2 for various reasons we already have elaborated.

Now comes the big but: for 80000 EUR (incl. 19% VAT in Germany), the GT-R is a real bargain and worth every cent. For those who are driving sportscars for the purpose of driving them, not beeing seen in them, the GT-R is a dream come true.

Personally I don't like the exterior look of the GT-R at all, it reminds me too much of the Playstation 3 racing games I'm playing from time to time with my 5-year old son, especially those involving japanese cars, young people and tuning. On the other hand, the interior of the GT-R looks amazing in my opinion, especially for a gadget lover like me, the GT-R interior is another dream come true.

To make it short: the GT-R is a fantastic offer, especially the Black Edition. It is very unfortunate that apparently this car comes in limited numbers to Germany and other countries but a little birdie told me that if demand is high, Nissan wants to put as many GT-R on the market as necessary to cover the greatest demand.

When money is tight, people need to look for alternatives. The GT-R certainly is one, no doubt about it. It may not carry the Porsche brand name and it may not be as good looking as a 997 Turbo (the "real" competitor here) but for half the money (compared to a fully equipped 997 Turbo), the GT-R can be ugly on the outside, I have no problem with that.

I cannot see why someone from Germany like RC, would buy a japanese product, especially during these troubled times for the local motor industry.

I've read that 1 in 7 people in Germany live from the motor industry and there is fear of job cuts soon. If this happens the incomes of the other 6 in 7 people will be hurt too.

Americans, Japanese and British car fans might be forced to look outside their country  for cars because they generally make rubbish cars (with some exceptions of course).

But I can't see the logic of buying a GT-R, for example, in the home of the best cars in the world, because it might be 10s faster on a 21 kms road track!

Christian, I personally see the GT-R as a car that a Carrera or M3 buyer would cross shop against.  I am weighing up a new 2+2 road car for next year and the GT-R is high on my list.  But would I think that it is a competitor to the GT2 (or even GT3 for that matter!) on the track?  Never!  Those who think so are out of their minds.  One lap maybe, but that is about it.

Here are some lap times and detailed sector data from VIR. (4.2 miles with elevation changes)

http://www.caranddriver.com/content/...08+Results.pdf 

GTR 2.55

F430 Scud 2.54 

 GTR has higher exit speed. Scud has higher peak speed. 

reginos:

I cannot see why someone from Germany like RC, would buy a japanese product, especially during these troubled times for the local motor industry.

I've read that 1 in 7 people in Germany live from the motor industry and there is fear of job cuts soon. If this happens the incomes of the other 6 in 7 people will be hurt too.

Americans, Japanese and British car fans might be forced to look outside their country  for cars because they generally make rubbish cars (with some exceptions of course).

But I can't see the logic of buying a GT-R, for example, in the home of the best cars in the world, because it might be 10s faster on a 21 kms road track!

--
It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

I totally agree with what RC said, you cannot ignore the GT-R.

Keep in mind that it seats 4 adults.

Japan making rubbish cars?  They make the best quality mid-priced cars in the world.

I do not believe in buying a car just because your country makes them, cars are produced
in Australia but I would choose Japanese over Australian everytime.

A few (late) observations:

1. Chris Harris is one heck of a driver. Congrats on a job well done. Unfortunately, the track's damp/oily conditions prevented any meaningful conclusions. I will say that the GT-R's time was impressive - basically the same as the 997TT/F430/Gallardo (in dry conditions!!).

2. While I don't question the TRUE merits of Nurburgring.  Its high speed nature combined with the lack of proper safety measures (according to F1 standards) makes it too "driver dependent" , especially when we are talking of sub 8 minutes laps. Not to mention its variable weather/track conditions. While providing a great overall balance of requirements, the driver needs to take huge risks in various sections, which IMO can make 10-15 second differences - as Chris Harris mentioned.  For instance, the GT2 requires more (risks) of its driver to get 100%, compared to the GT-R at the Ring, but not necessarily at other venues.

3. If we are to use the Ring as the benchmark, IMO Drivers-Republic & EVO (Lords of the Ring issue) did it right. They compared cars together over 1-2 days. Track conditions can change dramatically over time. We shouldn't worry too much about 5-10 second variations when looking at individually tested vehicles.

4. The GT2 is a real monster - with real Supercar (CGT) abilities. But, the GT-R deserves respect. Chris did a great time in poor conditions - very impressive, indeed.

5. How could Porsche possibly obtain 7:38 for the 997tt? Who are they kidding. Aren't they as guilty as Nissan?

6. GT-R raises the bar in terms of performance/price. We should all be grateful, since everyone else will be working overtime to better their products.

7. A suggestion for CH and Drivers-Republic. Choose another venue and start another set of benchmark times as per HVS/SA. IMO we need another solid voice/benchmark besides SA/Ring.

7. A suggestion for CH and Drivers-Republic. Choose another venue and start another set of benchmark times as per HVS/SA. IMO we need another solid voice/benchmark besides SA/Ring.

 +++ Good idea. 

Am I the only one that thinks Porsche might be just a little bit biased when conducting their own tests with the GT-R.  I'm not suggesting they lied either but I highly doubt they'd come out and say "yeah this car really did beat ours"

GT-R price increases in Spain:

From 79.000€, to 88.000€

91.000€ for Black Edition

mp:

A few (late) observations:

4. The GT2 is a real monster - with real Supercar (CGT) abilities.

Excellent observations mp
Re GT2 monster @ NoS I have a nice story for you guys: a buddy of mine was playing with his 987S at NoS last year (I think it was September), when a yellow 997 GT2 flew by at Brünnchen with "unbelievable" speed (Note: the buddy knows what he's talking about - very good NoS driver with quite some VLN races under his belt). By coincidence he saw the yellow GT2 again at the gas station on Döttinger Höhe. The driver was the Grandmaster himself: W.R.  Of course my buddy took the opportunity to enjoy a chat with him (must be a super nice guy having no probs to spend some time for a chat with any enthusiast )

What he mentioned during the conversation ist that even HE sometimes is scared (!) by the speed of the GT2 (he mentioned especially Kesselchen).......I'm sure it needs balls of steel to drive this car at the limit in the Green Hell

BiTurbo:
Because there was a bump in power output from 480 to 485, I expect her to run 7:23 kicking MC12's ass
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you not only get the extra 5HP but you also get the mandatory "LC delete" factory option for that price increase 
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