Crown

Rossi:

More leg- and headroom in the rear is the last thing I need in a 911, the rest is okay.

 ....100% agree!!!

Don't understand what they want to achieve. A Mercedes CLS?
Personally I need the legroom in the front.

Rossi:

Carlos from Spain:

Rossi:

palenimbus:

Rossi:

More leg- and headroom in the rear is the last thing I need in a 911, the rest is okay.

 

 Well if you're going to have rear seats, why not make them useable or not have them at all. I think it's a good thing.

I don't even want rear seats. A baggage shelf like in the 599 would be enough.
 

 

The 911 is a rear engined platform, that implies rear seats, and that is one of its atractiveness and characteristics, otherwise you'd just put the engine in the middle. So if its going to have rear seats, the more usable they are the better.

599 doesn't have the engine in the middle as well.

Carlos, the more usable you make the 911 rear seats, the bigger the 911 gets and the less you need cars like a Panamera Coupé for example.
 

I understand you point of view but we are talking about a few centimeters, and the most important thing about all this rear seats issue is that they did not make the 911 longer in order to make the rear seats larger, this was only a positve side effect from making the wheelbase larger due to US regulations. That makes a big difference in what it implies.

Its only normal evolution, the 997 was the best handling and best performing 911 type ever, yet in the 1970's they would tell you that a 997 was too big, but I would never trade a 997 for a pre-964, no matter how small they were. And nobody here complains of the size of the 997 or 996.

The Panamera platform can't even be mentioned in the same sentence as the 911 when talking about legth and size, there is far too much of a size gap between the two.

Just like the 911 has gotten wider over the years, and now the 991 wil even be lower too, this will make the 991 have a great stance on the road IMO, and if the Nring rumors are correct, significant better handling than the 997 

Carlos from Spain:

Grant:

Thanks, Carlos!  I am not 100% convinced yet, since it seems we'll have a 4.0L GT3 RS Special Edition with the GT1 engine (but maybe not)...

You have a point, it makes a lot of sense that the GT3RS4.0 would use the GT1 block still 

But it seems very likely that the 991 GT cars will now use the DFI engine... which is a good thing for all other 911 model buyers because if it is, it speaks good of the engine because it will need to stand up to use in racing, and that means that they trust the reliability and potential of their new DFI engine.

--

It's quite complicated:

Current GT2 rules do not allow for DFI engines. Thus the need to keep the 4.0 L GT1 engine running in a road legal GT3 RS for another couple of years (for homologation purposes). I am sure that the rules will change (most likely next year or in 2013)

Spyderidol:

Carlos from Spain:

Grant:

Thanks, Carlos!  I am not 100% convinced yet, since it seems we'll have a 4.0L GT3 RS Special Edition with the GT1 engine (but maybe not)...

You have a point, it makes a lot of sense that the GT3RS4.0 would use the GT1 block still 

But it seems very likely that the 991 GT cars will now use the DFI engine... which is a good thing for all other 911 model buyers because if it is, it speaks good of the engine because it will need to stand up to use in racing, and that means that they trust the reliability and potential of their new DFI engine.

--

It's quite complicated:

Current GT2 rules do not allow for DFI engines. Thus the need to keep the 4.0 L GT1 engine running in a road legal GT3 RS for another couple of years (for homologation purposes). I am sure that the rules will change (most likely next year or in 2013)

Absolutely as I see it.

Also -  Porsche talking to the ACO (and other organizational bodies such as FiA and ALMS) to see how best to fit in the 918RSR. Porsche want it to fit into a GT class and so I expect to see significant changes in 2012/13 to the GTE (new name for GT2) rules. (if we are lucky)

Carlos from Spain:

Rossi:

Carlos from Spain:

Rossi:

palenimbus:

Rossi:

More leg- and headroom in the rear is the last thing I need in a 911, the rest is okay.

 

 Well if you're going to have rear seats, why not make them useable or not have them at all. I think it's a good thing.

I don't even want rear seats. A baggage shelf like in the 599 would be enough.
 

 

The 911 is a rear engined platform, that implies rear seats, and that is one of its atractiveness and characteristics, otherwise you'd just put the engine in the middle. So if its going to have rear seats, the more usable they are the better.

599 doesn't have the engine in the middle as well.

Carlos, the more usable you make the 911 rear seats, the bigger the 911 gets and the less you need cars like a Panamera Coupé for example.
 

 

I understand you point of view but we are talking about a few centimeters, and the most important thing about all this rear seats issue is that they did not make the 911 longer in order to make the rear seats larger, this was only a positve side effect from making the wheelbase larger due to US regulations. That makes a big difference in what it implies.

Its only normal evolution, the 997 was the best handling and best performing 911 type ever, yet in the 1970's they would tell you that a 997 was too big, but I would never trade a 997 for a pre-964, no matter how small they were. And nobody here complains of the size of the 997 or 996.

The Panamera platform can't even be mentioned in the same sentence as the 911 when talking about legth and size, there is far too much of a size gap between the two.

 

Just like the 911 has gotten wider over the years, and now the 991 wil even be lower too, this will make the 991 have a great stance on the road IMO, and if the Nring rumors are correct, significant better handling than the 997 

Carlos, it's always "only a few centimetres". But over the years...

Just have a look at the F355: perfect size if you ask me. Now compare it to a 458.

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

Couple of thoughts.  First people, particularly children, are getting larger (wider), at least in the US.  If Ferry's formula that the 911 must have rear seats is to soldier on, then the car must get larger to accomodate the larger people who will sit there.  Second, the larger wheelbase may be necessary for the cabriolet's metal folding top, which I believe has been confirmed? Did we not see spy photos of the folding top with a much larger covering tonneau? 

Carpe Diem--life is but a crack of light bounded by eternities of darkness (Nabokov)

Spyderidol:

It's quite complicated:

Current GT2 rules do not allow for DFI engines. Thus the need to keep the 4.0 L GT1 engine running in a road legal GT3 RS for another couple of years (for homologation purposes). I am sure that the rules will change (most likely next year or in 2013)

nope, since 2011 the Dfi engines are alowed, if you have them in the road car, first example Ferrari 458 gtc, witch will use 458's dfi engine
 But since the 991 gt3 RSR is at least two years away, it would stand to reason a  997 gt3 rs mark III would be built in the meantime.

Spyderidol:

Absolutely as I see it.

Also -  Porsche talking to the ACO (and other organizational bodies such as FiA and ALMS) to see how best to fit in the 918RSR. Porsche want it to fit into a GT class and so I expect to see significant changes in 2012/13 to the GTE (new name for GT2) rules. (if we are lucky)

that would kill the class, just like over the old gt1 class(~1998) got killed

Not at all.  Why do you say that?

the class is fine as it is, any medeling with adding future very Expensive technologies, would see  an investment war that would end with all great manufacturers that are now racing pulling away, because there isn't enough return to justify higher investments, and its pointless to race a carbon fiber tub car with 700+hp all wheel drive against 450hp rw cars with aluminium and steel chassis

and whats the point of the flywheel hybrids anyway except for racing, the whole concept of the gt2/gte class is road based race cars, and the flywheel hybrid system is not developed for road use, porshe uses batteries for road use. that and the requirament of 10 techitians so that the system runs properly is not in the spirit of the class

1. Well... the ACO are pushing the "green thang", so expect the rule changes (in the future) to include hybrids. (Porsche or no Porsche)
2. There will most likely be a Hybrid class separate from the GTE class. (my speculation)
3. The Mclaren MP4-12C has a carbon fiber tub and the exception is rumored to be being made for a possible entry of that car...so why not Porsche? (so did the Maserati in GT1)
4. The Porsche has 700+hp ....for  up to 8 seconds at a time. the rest of the time it has 500+. nothing that a couple of air restricotrs couldn't solve.
5. The technology will get cheaper.
6. LMP1 cars (where all the manufacturers race) is much more expensive.
7. the "ten" technicians are currently required because the system is under development. The aim is obviously not to continue to require a "football team" to run the flipping system.
8. ..road cars currently use batteries.

Spyderidol:

1. Well... the ACO are pushing the "green thang", so expect the rule changes (in the future) to include hybrids. (Porsche or no Porsche)
2. There will most likely be a Hybrid class separate from the GTE class. (my speculation)
3. The Mclaren MP4-12C has a carbon fiber tub and the exception is rumored to be being made for a possible entry of that car...so why not Porsche? (so did the Maserati in GT1)
4. The Porsche has 700+hp ....for  up to 8 seconds at a time. the rest of the time it has 500+. nothing that a couple of air restricotrs couldn't solve.
5. The technology will get cheaper.
6. LMP1 cars (where all the manufacturers race) is much more expensive.

150% of the total power of all other competitors for up to 8s after every corner is more then enough to blow away the competition and thus force everyone to invest in their own versions of the hybrid system, as far as i am concerned and preaty much every living soul that enjoys gt2/gte racing the class should be left alone since any and all medeling will probably cause it to go bust. if they introduce a seperate class just for hybrids I would be satisfiyed with that, but i dont see the point of it for porsche to run their cars in a class all by it self

I don't want to hijack this thread (my apologies) , but for those that are interested in where the 918 RSR might possibly race , here is a good article.

Spyderidol:

I don't want to hijack this thread (my apologies) , but for those that are interested in where the 918 RSR might possibly race , here is a good article.

 

Thanks Spyderidol

Rossi:

Carlos, it's always "only a few centimetres". But over the years...

Just have a look at the F355: perfect size if you ask me. Now compare it to a 458.

+1.   I recall reading recently that in fact North Americans were not actually growing as quickly (at least in height... girth is another matter) as usually assumed.  One link about this research (much of it by Dr. Komlos in Munich) is below.    The conclusion is that Americans, post-war, have lost their height advantage to northern Europeans, possibly due to inferior health care and nutrition, and that the Netherlands is now easily the tallest nation on average.
 

So... if the 911 is truly getting bigger because people are taller, blame the Dutch...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/12/AR2007081200809.html

--
 

2010 Audi S5,  2009 Porsche 911S

4trac:

Rossi:

Carlos, it's always "only a few centimetres". But over the years...

Just have a look at the F355: perfect size if you ask me. Now compare it to a 458.

+1.   I recall reading recently that in fact North Americans were not actually growing as quickly (at least in height... girth is another matter) as usually assumed.  One link about this research (much of it by Dr. Komlos in Munich) is below.    The conclusion is that Americans, post-war, have lost their height advantage to northern Europeans, possibly due to inferior health care and nutrition, and that the Netherlands is now easily the tallest nation on average.
 

So... if the 911 is truly getting bigger because people are taller, blame the Dutch...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/12/AR2007081200809.html

 

 True, we (the Dutch) are the tallest, but we stopped getting bigger and are actually shrinking. So no need to make the 911 any bigger 

www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2010/06/the_dutch_finally_stop_growing.php

Please don't blame me personally, I must have stopped getting taller a couple of years ago ... :-P

Joost:

Please don't blame me personally, I must have stopped getting taller a couple of years ago ... :-P

Mike

2005 Carrera GT + 2008 Tesla Roadster +2010 Panamera Turbo + 2001 BMW Z8 + 1972 BMW 3.0 CSi +2009 Bentley Arnage T

Pfeew! Thank God I can't be blamed for this.

So far the most accurate renderings available (Source: AutoBILD Germany).

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

Rossi:

palenimbus:

Rossi:

More leg- and headroom in the rear is the last thing I need in a 911, the rest is okay.

 

 Well if you're going to have rear seats, why not make them useable or not have them at all. I think it's a good thing.

I don't even want rear seats. A baggage shelf like in the 599 would be enough.
 

So where do you put your kid in...the engine bay ?   

Good morning, just in case you haven't heard it...you're a father and kids wanna drive along. 

I will never ever buy a car with two seats only, my wife gets cranky, my kid(s) get cranky, no thanks.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

RC:

So far the most accurate renderings available (Source: AutoBILD Germany).

Very nice. I must confess that I am slightly disappointed that  Porsche did not use this opportunity to go a little more extreme (bold) on the basic 911 design. But then again, that is just my personal opinion. ( Clarkson is going to have a field day!)

why RC, it could be used as an disciplinery tool, the one kid or wife that is the nicest that week gets to ride along during the next week :)

RC  in live this 991 looks much difference than 997?? i mean wider and longer, more agressive?

in pics  looks almost the same...

Spyderidol:

From this picture you can see that the rear headlights are much further apart than in the 997, and so more lateral than in the current redenrings.

RC:

Rossi:

palenimbus:

Rossi:

More leg- and headroom in the rear is the last thing I need in a 911, the rest is okay.

 

 Well if you're going to have rear seats, why not make them useable or not have them at all. I think it's a good thing.

I don't even want rear seats. A baggage shelf like in the 599 would be enough.
 

 

So where do you put your kid in...the engine bay ?   

Good morning, just in case you haven't heard it...you're a father and kids wanna drive along. 

I will never ever buy a car with two seats only, my wife gets cranky, my kid(s) get cranky, no thanks.

My wife drives with the kid in the Turbo, I (try) to follow in the 458.

Just kidding. Sportscars and little kids don't go together well IMO. I can't even use half of the potential of today's sportscars with my child in the backrow. And even less if my wife sits next to me.

And I'm not the type of guy who can fully extract the potential of today's sportscars, so my abilities plus wife next to me plus little Rossi behind me - guess what remains in a car like the Turbo. No thanks, I could rather drive a Dacia Diesel instead and would not be much slower.
 

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

Carlos from Spain:

Turbo4ever:

Thanks, so maybe the GT series will still use the GT1 block?
 

 

 

Grant:

Do you know if the GT cars will use the 9A1 engine or GT1 block?  If 9A1, do you know if they will make a true dry-sump version for the GT cars?

Thanks!

 

I recall that someone form Porsche already declared that they wil be only making one line of engines for the 911, and with their new DIF engine it made no sense now to keep making the GT1 block engine for the GT's only.

If it will be a dry-sump version of the DFI engine I don't know, but it will be used in racing so...

 

 

 

 

Thanks, I want the GT3, so maybe the PDK will be offer.