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    Dec 12, 2010 10:38:08 AM

    Joost
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    Reply to: Carlos from SpainM

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Carlos,
    What is your estimation of the effect of torque vectoring on the laptimes?

    From what I understand it is some sort of reversed differential, which can assign more torque to the wheels on the outside of the turn, thus resulting in a better way of driving through corners. In fact, what I can imagine is that you can now youse both (inside and outside) wheels to drive you through the corners, where this would previously be predominantly the inside(?) wheel.

    Is it possible that this has such a significant influence on the behaviour of the car that it results in such spectacular laptimes, even though the net power output may be lower?


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    Dec 12, 2010 11:08:41 AM

    palenimbus
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    Reply to: Joost

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

     Could be gearbox? New revised PDK on 991 vs manual on GT3.

    Dec 12, 2010 11:09:37 AM

    Carlos from SpainM
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    Reply to: Joost

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Joost:

    Carlos,
    What is your estimation of the effect of torque vectoring on the laptimes?

    From what I understand it is some sort of reversed differential, which can assign more torque to the wheels on the outside of the turn, thus resulting in a better way of driving through corners. In fact, what I can imagine is that you can now youse both (inside and outside) wheels to drive you through the corners, where this would previously be predominantly the inside(?) wheel.

    Is it possible that this has such a significant influence on the behaviour of the car that it results in such spectacular laptimes, even though the net power output may be lower?

     

    I'm sure it helps, I would not even veture to guess how much it chaves off the lap time at the ring since I have no clue, but can it explain such a big difference? The ring is a very fast track with high speed corners and the 997.2 GT3's aerodinamic downforce really helps, also HP is very important at those speeds. Not to mention the track chasis setup of the GT3, its tires, etc. Can torque vectoring be as important as all that put together? 

    I guess we will have to wiat and see, but I was thinking that a 6-7 second improvement in the ring of the 991 over the 997 would be already good and reasonable, and consistent with 911's evolution over the years, but 13 secs?Smiley


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    Dec 12, 2010 12:11:29 PM

    reginos
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    Reply to: Carlos from SpainM

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Of course the 7.40 could be a rough figure. It could very well be 7.43 for example but someone at Porsche just said to the journalist: "Hmmm expect something around 7.40".

    Moreover, Sport Auto times are always slower than Porsche internal figures.

    The GT cars' laptimes are not fully optimised because of their inefficient transmissions. It is an achievement that they are so fast already.

    The true speed of these cars will be revealed with the 991 GT3/RS/GT2 when they get modern, state of the art transmissions like other competitors ( I hope).


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    Dec 12, 2010 3:36:06 PM

    neunelf
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    Reply to: reginos

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Wouldn't 7:40 still be 15+ seconds slower then the recent GT-R 2011 lap? Seems realistic enough :)

    Dec 12, 2010 6:26:27 PM

    Ferdie
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    Reply to: neunelf

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Sport Auto´s laptime on the Nordschleife was 7:50 min, therefore 7:40 min is a realistic number. I do believe that the increased wheelbase makes the car more relaxing to drive at the limit and possibly allows for a more aggressive suspension tuning while remaining safe to handle. Not to mention the other improvements...

    Dec 12, 2010 7:23:40 PM

    mateoche
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    Reply to: Ferdie

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    all i can say is: i'm looking forward to the final figures (goes without saying, i know) because this is an interesting debate... and it gets me that much more excited for the car--

    let me ask a novice question: how much of a difference will the driver make?  A magazine versus a Porsche chosen driver?

    And of course the weather, set-up etc.  Or will Porsche chose the ideal set-up and driver and lap conditions and then use that as the benchmark (which i assuming this is how it works - for marketing reasons?

    also, there are so many varying HP figures being written about (i think i read 415HP for the "S" iteration recently but now I'm reading around 400)  that i wonder where these top car journalists with their internal "highly placed" Porsche "sources" are getting their "info" and how accurate they will ultimately be?  

    Sometimes it seems that everyone knows the facts yet they're often irreconcilable... (i realize this is nothing new of course)

     

     

    Dec 12, 2010 7:58:07 PM

    palenimbus
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    Reply to: mateoche

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

     7.40 is an incredible number. Isn't that the same time as the SLS AMG and the Ferrari 458 (7.38)?

    How can it be possible the next generation CarreraS has the same ring performance as the SLS and 458?

    Dec 12, 2010 11:48:29 PM

    Atzporsche
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    Reply to: palenimbus

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Porsche has impressed many times like this in the past... Their engineering department really is top notch. A 7:40 laptime would be stunning and i'm wishing for it because the 911 chassis deserves it. I'm also really interested in the details now... and yes Porsche is usually conservative with their marketing lap times and hp figures, so in real life it could be even better. I think the above stated is definitely possible with new technology and tweaks.


    --

    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 

    Dec 13, 2010 4:55:23 PM

    Carrageous Offline
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    Reply to: Carlos from SpainM

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

     Carlos, you mention downforce from the GT3 wing, so maybe there's some increased downforce in the new design and underbody. Maybe they've been talking to Adrian Newey?Smiley


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    Dec 13, 2010 7:42:32 PM

    Carlos from SpainM
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    Reply to: Carrageous

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Carrageous:

     Carlos, you mention downforce from the GT3 wing, so maybe there's some increased downforce in the new design and underbody. Maybe they've been talking to Adrian Newey?Smiley

    Thats a good point, that could also be a factor of the 991 vs 997 Carreras, though I doubt it will be as much as the GT3 with its traditional front spoilers, and very aggresive rear wings, but the 991 with its new rear wing design Porsche may have stepped it up a notch in aerodinamic aids.


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    Dec 13, 2010 7:48:48 PM

    Carrageous Offline
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    Reply to: Carlos from SpainM

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

     Now that aero seems to be acknowledges as this year's key competitive factor in F1, and with the inherent downforce in the Ferrari 458, maximizing downforce might well be an important new direction in the 911's evolution.

    Never thought much about this before but I wonder what the relative downforce increases/decreases have been to the 911 over the years? 


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    Dec 13, 2010 8:48:46 PM

    4trac Offline
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    Reply to: Thoma

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Thoma:

    Neuheiten: Porsche 911 und Mercedes SL

     


     

    Yes I know this is a PS, but if Porsche has broken into Lamborghini's paint shop, and used what looks like Arancio Borealis on their test cars that could account for at least 5 seconds on the NR.... Smiley

     


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    Dec 13, 2010 9:08:42 PM

    fritz
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    Reply to: 4trac

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    4trac:

     

    Yes I know this is a PS, but if Porsche has broken into Lamborghini's paint shop, and used what looks like Arancio Borealis on their test cars that could account for at least 5 seconds on the NR.... Smiley

     

    I know that Arancio Borealis is not Burnt Orange, but would using a Lamborghini colour on a Porsche make it also prone to spontaneous combustion. Smiley

    Smiley


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    Dec 13, 2010 10:34:15 PM

    Misha011
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    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    .. probably the max. of my intuition and p-shop skill  Smiley

    1292280326000Porsche-5 misha BBS FI 02 G.JPG

    Dec 14, 2010 6:52:49 AM

    Joost
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    Reply to: Misha011

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Looks nice and clean Misha!
    I think the front inlets needs some shape still, but I like the way these type of photoshop guesstimations work.
     

    BTW, I also have a sneaking suspicion that the blinker in the front fender may have a design change as well. From the various spy shots, you can see that th contour is different than it used to be.


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    Dec 14, 2010 7:00:20 AM

    Spyderidol
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    Reply to: Joost

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Very nice Misha! 1292310013085clap.gif

    Dec 14, 2010 7:05:00 AM

    Spyderidol
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    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Can you make a comparison of this car and the actual 997.2 (You know, side by side photo) ? xmas.gif Thank Misha!

    Dec 14, 2010 12:16:15 PM

    Misha011
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    Reply to: Spyderidol

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    1292329483928Porsche-5 misha BBS FI 02 comp.JPG

    Dec 14, 2010 12:32:01 PM

    Spyderidol
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    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Thanks Misha!

    This really shows the subtle differences in design ....and all the long hard hours the design team have put in at the factory.1292329908399evil.gif

    Dec 14, 2010 1:11:52 PM

    Rossi
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    Reply to: Spyderidol

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Spyderidol:

    Thanks Misha!

    This really shows the subtle differences in design ....and all the long hard hours the design team have put in at the factory.1292329908399evil.gif


    Nevertheless the 997, especially Mk 2 still looks fantastic. IMO a really great design from Porsche, wich could become a classic, just as the 993 for instance. Smiley
     


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    Dec 14, 2010 1:17:26 PM

    Spyderidol
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    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Can't disagree with that!

    Dec 14, 2010 6:48:50 PM

    mateoche
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    Reply to: Spyderidol

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

     great job Misha!!!!!!!!

    it has great balance and proportions!

    Dec 14, 2010 8:01:02 PM

    Misha011
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    Reply to: mateoche

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Thanks to all who like it     Smiley    Expecting from new spy-shots to bring more hints .

    Dec 15, 2010 12:36:11 AM

    bobr
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    Reply to: Misha011

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    SmileySmiley Thanks Misha....


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    Dec 15, 2010 4:23:54 AM

    4trac Offline
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    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Misha011:

    .. probably the max. of my intuition and p-shop skill  Smiley

    1292280326000Porsche-5 misha BBS FI 02 G.JPG

    OK, maybe somebody covered this in one of the 74 pages (whew....) of this thread.... but does anyone think that the "dimple" on the fender over the rear wheel, which seems to show on most spy shots, is real, and if so, what is it??


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    Dec 15, 2010 5:10:31 AM

    Enmanuel
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    Reply to: 4trac

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    4trac:

    OK, maybe somebody covered this in one of the 74 pages (whew....) of this thread.... but does anyone think that the "dimple" on the fender over the rear wheel, which seems to show on most spy shots, is real, and if so, what is it??

     Its just a reflection, seems like theres a bit of an upwards curve on the rear wheel arches that is more pronounced than on the 997 so we see the reflection of the rear pilar.

    Dec 15, 2010 7:50:28 AM

    GnilM
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    Reply to: Enmanuel

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

     It's true that on the above pic it look like an intake , or a tank cap, but it is most likely a reflexion as you can see in the below pic

    image.jpg


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    Dec 15, 2010 10:56:28 AM

    John H Offline
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    Reply to: GnilM

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Could it be that all 991's will be wide-bodied ala the GTS?  That could produce a more pronounced reflection.

     


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    Dec 15, 2010 1:04:17 PM

    DJC
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    Reply to: John H

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

     Did anyone notice the fuel tank is on the left side ?

     
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