Crown

cross between z8 and 911 headlight, curved, it like that..  Is the new 911 only going to come as a hardtop  convertible? except gt3! would lower production cost and cut # of models in half.  

Volkswagen Begins to Map the Future for the House of Porsche...

(December 2009)

Until he was beheaded (figuratively) in a recent battle with über-VW-mogul Ferdinand Piëch, Porsche chairman Wendelin Wiedeking was close to occupying the big chairs at both Porsche and Volkswagen, where one of his first goals was to make VW take a considerable amount of cost out of its future product.

But in the power struggle that ensued, it was Volkswagen that ended up owning Porsche, instead of vice versa, and Wiedeking was sent packing (with a colossal severance payoff). Now Piëch, the chairman of Volkswagen AG’s supervisory board, and VW chief executive officer Martin Winterkorn are calling the shots at Volkswagen and nine other brands under the VW umbrella, including Porsche. And what both leaders are looking for regarding Porsche’s future seems to be clear: Porsche has to sell more cars. A lot more cars.

Currently, Porsche is selling about 75,000 units per annum. Instead of the incremental addition of model variants as in previous years, the new VW bosses are demanding that several new Porsche models enter production in a short three-year span. Eventually, the new bosses are pushing for Porsche to sell 150,000 vehicles annually.

Here is Winterkorn’s take on Porsche’s product line: The slow, evolutionary steps of the 911 have been too small. The Cayenne, even in its second generation, is still too heavy, thirsty, and not innovative enough. The Boxster and the Cayman don’t sell in great enough numbers, and the new Panamera is too big and heavy. Above all, the Panamera’s chassis is used only for a single model today, which is not as profitable as it could be.

What to do?

Two words: platform sharing. Volkswagen has shown that its engineers and designers are capable of creating unique character out of careful modifications to a single platform. The Audi TT and the VW Golf come to mind. Their driving characteristics, packaging, design, equipment, and appeal are different enough that customers may not suspect that the two cars have a lot in common. The platform-sharing strategy has worked for the group’s volume brands: Audi, SEAT, Skoda, and Volkswagen. In the future, platform sharing will be applied among the group’s premium brands: Bentley, Bugatti, Lamborghini, and Porsche.

BABY BOXSTER: The first planned step is the creation of a roadster to slot in under the Boxster. Ex-boss Wiedeking believed that a Porsche smaller than the Boxster might dilute the brand, but Winterkorn wants a Porsche-badged, small mid-engined roadster based on the two-seat VW BlueSport concept car shown last January at the Detroit auto show. When badged as a Volkswagen, a SEAT, or a Skoda, the production version of the roadster would have 120- and 200-hp gas engines. As a Porsche, the little roadster would have a twin-turbo four-cylinder making about 300 horsepower. There are rumors coming from VW’s Wolfsburg headquarters that suggest this new powerplant could be a horizontally opposed four-cylinder. Detuned, the new flat-four could also be used in Volkswagen cars such as the New Beetle’s replacement.

2013 PORSCHE CARRERA GT: Piëch’s influence at Porsche will accelerate the development of the Carrera GT’s successor. Fuel-efficiency concerns will likely make the new car’s engine a 650-hp twin-turbo V-8. Lightweight composites will help bring the curb weight down to 2500 pounds.

CAYENNE: This SUV’s 2017 replacement won’t retain the current model’s off-road capability and top speed of more than 160 mph. Instead, it will lose weight (while remaining the same size as today’s Cayenne) and get more fuel-efficient engines.

2013 PORSCHE PANAMERA COUPE: VW is looking to expand the line-up to generate more profit off this platform. It is proposing a two-door luxury coupe on a shortened wheelbase as well as a soft-top convertible. Both could arrive in 2012. The Panamera’s platform will also be shared with the group’s other luxury cars.

911: Perhaps the most difficult question surrounds the future of the iconic Porsche two-door. Today, the 911 comes in 14 different flavors, but since the 911’s engine went water cooled in 1998, the changes between one generation and the next have been kept small to ensure the happiness of 911 loyalists. But Winterkorn’s intentions are now to change the 911 more extensively by implementing new technologies faster—just don’t expect the 911 exterior design to change dramatically. These new technologies will likely include the use of more lightweight components and more innovative engine and electronic technologies. For example, ultralight fiber-optic electrical architecture would shed pounds off the current car’s wiring harness, while a race-derived sequential gearbox would find its way into sporty versions (the 911 GT2 and GT3). Under VW’s guidance, the 911 could become a leader in innovative technology—and that’s what Porsche devotee Piëch wants to see.

2012 PORSCHE ROXSTER: A small SUV positioned below the Cayenne, dubbed Roxster, will be built on Audi Q5 components and powered by either the roughly 300-hp turbo four or a 180-hp turbo-diesel (TDI). A gas-electric hybrid unit, under development for the VW Golf and its platform mates, would also fit.

The-Future-of-Porsche_Car-and-Driver_Article-link

Sh!t Porsche as we know it will be history! 150,000 units, station wagons, SUVs, limos, VWs with porsche badges... The one thing good is they are bringing a CGT successor and give the 911 more dramatic changes to make it #1 innovation sports car. That is cool.

I'm just going to save for a good old 993! 

indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 
_____________________________________________________________________
1984 BMW 323i 5spd 2.3L 141 hp (105 kW) More door. Black on black (parting out) 
1986 BMW 325e 5spd 2.7L 121 hp (172 lb·ft) Le Mans Blau on Tan leather.
1986 BMW 325is 5spd 2.5L 168 hp (164 lb-ft) White on Tan leather (parted out) 
2005 Ford Focus S, 5spd 2.0L 136 hp (120lb-ft) CD silver on grey (sold)
1986 Porsche 944, 5spd 2.5L 150 hp (168lb-ft) champagne gold on grown leather. (sold)

Scary... but exciting

Dilution of the brand... but fiber optics and sequential trannies

More SUVs... but a CGT successor

So, which one's going to be the "last" great driver's car? The 2010 GT3 or is it yet to come way in the future

Gotta say, a GT3 and a TDI Roxster would be a pretty good combo for a country with four seasons.

Thanks Boxter Coupe, you always have great posts

--

Slow In, Fast Out

Scary and exciting !!! Exactly.

A Pamanera 928 seems a great idea and will be a  superb GT for the 911 lovers that became too old or want more comfort.

That leaves room for more sportier 911, specially the Turbo . A very good move in my opinion. Pushing for innovation on the 911 is great !

The move with the Cayenne is also very positive. Porsche needs to represent technology and innovations ( and that has not been applied to the last Cayenne )

The Roxter could then be a daily car for the family

 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

I hope it`s true.

Seems all good news for me...

There goes the Porsche brand! Or maybe it had already left...

I don”t know why so may of you sound so.... worried about the future of Porsche the way it is described here. To me it sounds very good. Let”s see:

Smaler roadster than the Boxter.  How many of us dreamed of a cheaper Porsche to be able to enter the marque ownership? 300hp!!!  the first Boxster had just 204 hp!!!

Plans for New Carrera GT in recesion times!!!! What is bad in that?

We complained in this forum a lot about the weigh of the Cayenne. So a lighter Cayenne in the future!!! Again what is bad n that?

A lighter more techological 911 but with the same looks!!! WOW!!! Racing gearbox in the GT versions!!! double WOW!!!!

Panamera Coupe!!! Kinda of new 928? WOW

And a small Cayenne!!! 300hp!!!

I think is a briliant future! About Porsche as we know it being gone... I think today the company allready is everything from above: I mean: 280 hp Boxster, Two four doors models... so many versios of the 911... 100000 units/yr .

Atzporsche:

Sh!t Porsche as we know it will be history! 150,000 units, station wagons, SUVs, limos, VWs with porsche badges... The one thing good is they are bringing a CGT successor and give the 911 more dramatic changes to make it #1 innovation sports car. That is cool.

I'm just going to save for a good old 993! 

...said a person, whose only Porsche was a 944.

Sorry, as much as I usually appreciate your comments but this time...

Have you ever driven a 993 ? I switched from a 1992 BMW M3 (286 HP) to a 993 Targa without testdriving it first (great deal from dealer, stupid me) and had the shock of my life, it felt so outdated and slow until I got used to it.

You should have switched from the "my kid could drive it" 944 to the 993, you would never ever had said that ("I'm just going to save for a good old 993!").

Time has moved on, Porsche moved on, so should people.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

RC:

Atzporsche:

I'm just going to save for a good old 993! 

 Have you ever driven a 993 ? I switched from a 1992 BMW M3 (286 HP) to a 993 Targa without testdriving it first (great deal from dealer, stupid me) and had the shock of my life, it felt so outdated and slow until I got used to it.

Time has moved on, Porsche moved on, so should people.

RC, I couldn't resist a reply (just like when my dogs see a squirrel go by, they must chase):

Please, please, please expand a bit, and I promise I won't start a whole discussion

Planning the next move and I'm literally stuck in the middle: 993 or 997S for same price (actually,993 is a bit more $$).

I know it has nothing to do with the thread, but maybe no one will notice, so how about a few bullet points...

Slow In, Fast Out

RC:

Have you ever driven a 993 ? I switched from a 1992 BMW M3 (286 HP) to a 993 Targa without testdriving it first (great deal from dealer, stupid me) and had the shock of my life, it felt so outdated and slow until I got used to it.

You should have switched from the "my kid could drive it" 944 to the 993, you would never ever had said that ("I'm just going to save for a good old 993!").

Time has moved on, Porsche moved on, so should people.

Living with an air-cooled 911 is an acquired taste.  

As with any acquired taste, some people never get it.  

fritz

RC : My initial post is pretty negative but all i was trying to say is that im really concerned with the VW take-over and future Porsche models sharing platforms, it will hardly add to Porsche's historic feel. Porsche is just going mainstrain and that will affect the brand.

As for your comment, yes i've only owned one of the worst Porsche's being a poor student.. But i've driven almost every model for many miles. Part-time automotive jobs are sweet :).
In addition, i've also driven an e36 M3 and even though is a great ride i'd take a 993 Carrera ANYDAY over it. Just personal preference. Mind you the US spec e36 M3 only got 240hp while yours in Germany had 282hp. But if you're going to go e36 M3 the 3.2L is a must. Biggest thing for me is the price justification but it's so worth it. For a stock 993 Carrera, i could get a 3,2L M3 with tuned suspension/brakes and be faster but i just love the air-cooled 993.

indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 
_____________________________________________________________________
1984 BMW 323i 5spd 2.3L 141 hp (105 kW) More door. Black on black (parting out) 
1986 BMW 325e 5spd 2.7L 121 hp (172 lb·ft) Le Mans Blau on Tan leather.
1986 BMW 325is 5spd 2.5L 168 hp (164 lb-ft) White on Tan leather (parted out) 
2005 Ford Focus S, 5spd 2.0L 136 hp (120lb-ft) CD silver on grey (sold)
1986 Porsche 944, 5spd 2.5L 150 hp (168lb-ft) champagne gold on grown leather. (sold)

fritz

As with any acquired taste, some people never get it.  

 

 

Maybe because they are traveling too fast trough the life  (usually at 280 km/h - as we were told)   

RC:

Atzporsche:

Sh!t Porsche as we know it will be history! 150,000 units, station wagons, SUVs, limos, VWs with porsche badges... The one thing good is they are bringing a CGT successor and give the 911 more dramatic changes to make it #1 innovation sports car. That is cool.

I'm just going to save for a good old 993! 

 

 

Time has moved on, Porsche moved on, so should people.

Actually this is what I wanted to say RC, but I have used more words...

 they should do a spin of and create the 911 branch .....and porsche for the rest mass production!!!!

what do you think????

xander71:

 they should do a spin of and create the 911 branch .....and porsche for the rest mass production!!!!

what do you think????

In my mind they have already done it.  In the 911 brand, there are from the high-end like GTs and Turbo,  to the non GT mid range 911s.  In the lower end, there are mid-engine 911s.    They are called Boxster and Cayman.

93' Guard Red 968 Coupe

The Roxster looks like a VW.

The Panamera - "The Panamera’s platform will also be shared with the group’s other luxury cars." More VW.

The Cayenne, smaller and less powerful. Another VW.

Well, that leaves the rest of the Porsche line-up pretty much the same - not going anywhere fast, just incremental updates. Can't quite touch the revolution of the Ferrari 458.

Just another mass manufacturer.

The Cayenne is a Porsche (Porsche developed the Touareg for VW, not the other way around like many people seem to think).

The Panamera is Porsche (there is no VW product using the same platform, it is Porsche's own development).

Roxster was just a stupid joke from a german car magazine before "Cayenne" was official as the name for Porsche's first SUV.

While I agree that Porsche is indeed a mass manufacturer right now, I don't understand the other points you mentioned.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

FFaust:

Planning the next move and I'm literally stuck in the middle: 993 or 997S for same price (actually,993 is a bit more $$).

I know it has nothing to do with the thread, but maybe no one will notice, so how about a few bullet points...

The 993 is more expensive than the 997 Carrera S ? Wow.

Testdrive both before you make a decision. Start with the 997 Carrera S first. 

Good luck.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

The source of all of this information comes from VW. I never said that that the Cayenne was developed by VW, but it will be now. Similarly, VW intends to shorten the Panamera wheel base and diversify the Porsche product offerings.

How many 911s can dance on the head of a pin? New 911TT, new 911 GT3, new 911 GT3RS, new 911 GT2, new 911 Turbo S, new 911RSR, new 911R, new 911 GT2RS, new 998 TT, new 998 GT3, new 998 GT2...

the 911 is still one of the best sports car.......they may not have the same exslusivity like before but the 911 is always the 911.....the rest is mass production needed to keep the 911 alive.....so for me it is just something that saves the 911 which could'nt exist in todays porsche without the mass production!.

you just don't need to see the other porsches!! haha

xander71-

Excellent point!

Although I usually drive my Ruf RTurbo.

RSA333:

xander71-

Excellent point!

Although I usually drive my Ruf RTurbo.

thx...and have anice ride with your ruf

RC:

FFaust:

Planning the next move and I'm literally stuck in the middle: 993 or 997S for same price (actually,993 is a bit more $$).

 

The 993 is more expensive than the 997 Carrera S ? Wow.

Testdrive both before you make a decision. Start with the 997 Carrera S first. 

Good luck.

Thanks but too late, I've already driven the 993
 

FYI, and considering the Cdn $ is close to par with the US $:

- 98, 993 C2S, 12,000 km, good options $68,000 Cdn (a bit high)

- 06, C2S, 18,000 km, Sport Chrono and good options $65,000 Cdn (a bit low)

Coincidentally, both are Black / Tan.

Oh well, we'll see what happens, but I think I'm starting to see the outcome 

Slow In, Fast Out

993 all the way, it is a timeless classic. the 997 will drop to $30,000 if not lower in the next few years of so. We see 996 C2S for $29,000 here in Vancouver with similar milage/options.

a black 993 on Tan is simply stunning and will be amazing. Parts are cheaper, the car is less complex, easier to work on, as good a daily as the 997 if need be and much more driving fun.

indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 
_____________________________________________________________________
1984 BMW 323i 5spd 2.3L 141 hp (105 kW) More door. Black on black (parting out) 
1986 BMW 325e 5spd 2.7L 121 hp (172 lb·ft) Le Mans Blau on Tan leather.
1986 BMW 325is 5spd 2.5L 168 hp (164 lb-ft) White on Tan leather (parted out) 
2005 Ford Focus S, 5spd 2.0L 136 hp (120lb-ft) CD silver on grey (sold)
1986 Porsche 944, 5spd 2.5L 150 hp (168lb-ft) champagne gold on grown leather. (sold)

FFaust:
 

FYI, and considering the Cdn $ is close to par with the US $:

- 98, 993 C2S, 12,000 km, good options $68,000 Cdn (a bit high)

- 06, C2S, 18,000 km, Sport Chrono and good options $65,000 Cdn (a bit low)

Low-mileage 993 sell for a surprising amount of money. If you see this as a vintage car being occasionally driven it might be a consideration. In such a case, I support the idea of buying such a car but I personally couldn´t get over that price tag. The 993 is one of the cars that can be driven (and overhauled) even with very high mileage numbers so I wouldn´t mind considering a more frequently driven car and its respectively lower price. Premiums are usually paid for the 2S, 4S and Turbo models, Carrera and targa sell for less money. Looking for a vintage car to keep for a long time, that´d be my choice.

The 997 is of a different breed, in terms of technology and character. I agree that prices will further go down but not as much as on the 996. If you intend to drive the car regularly, include an extended warranty and accept the fact that you will face a certain depreciation, you´d be better of with the latter. Looking for a decent car for the next three to four years, I´d take this one.

Atzporsche:

993 all the way, it is a timeless classic. the 997 will drop to $30,000 if not lower in the next few years of so. We see 996 C2S for $29,000 here in Vancouver with similar milage/options.

a black 993 on Tan is simply stunning and will be amazing. Parts are cheaper, the car is less complex, easier to work on, as good a daily as the 997 if need be and much more driving fun.

Argghhh, the outcome I was starting to see is the other one

Yes, you are generally correct (depreciation might not be quite as bad on the 997 as on the 996, but who knows). Although both are Fun and Functional, I see the 993 as being more of a "fun" car, and, you guessed it, the 997 more of a "functional" (DD) car. You certaily get more car-for-the-money with a 997, whereas with the 993 it's more esoteric.

Ha, wasn't entirely sure about the use of "esoteric" so I looked it up:

Per Webster's: "Esoteric: a: designed for or understood by the specially initiated alone, b: of or relating to knowledge that is restricted to a small group"

They certaily both have their merits, hence the difficulty in picking one. And there is the problem, picking just one

Slow In, Fast Out

Go for the 997 if you want a driver's car.  IMHO, the 993 is outdated and inferior in every aspect.  A 993 is only a classic if you want to believe it is.  "Classic" is a marketing term used by anxious sellers, and can only truly be applied to very, very few extremely unique cars in spectacular condition. 

Ferdie:

 

Low-mileage 993 sell for a surprising amount of money. If you see this as a vintage car being occasionally driven it might be a consideration. In such a case, I support the idea of buying such a car but I personally couldn´t get over that price tag. The 993 is one of the cars that can be driven (and overhauled) even with very high mileage numbers so I wouldn´t mind considering a more frequently driven car and its respectively lower price. Premiums are usually paid for the 2S, 4S and Turbo models, Carrera and targa sell for less money. Looking for a vintage car to keep for a long time, that´d be my choice.

The 997 is of a different breed, in terms of technology and character. I agree that prices will further go down but not as much as on the 996. If you intend to drive the car regularly, include an extended warranty and accept the fact that you will face a certain depreciation, you´d be better of with the latter. Looking for a decent car for the next three to four years, I´d take this one.

Thanks, very good points.

Depreciation = Pay to Play

Slow In, Fast Out

Wonderbar:

Go for the 997 if you want a driver's car.  IMHO, the 993 is outdated and inferior in every aspect.  A 993 is only a classic if you want to believe it is.  "Classic" is a marketing term used by anxious sellers, and can only truly be applied to very, very few extremely unique cars in spectacular condition. 

The 993 is superior in one respect: looks. The 993 is the best looking 911 ever.