Crown

Gnil:

 Thanks KresoF1 for the numbers.  The 991 will be a fast and surely fantastic handling 911.

As to the size of the back, I ma more then happy that it is not larger. Narrow body work much better on the Carrera' s 

can't wait to have the 991 PDK GT3 clubsport for track days

996AD:

I have a prediction that the front light will look like this: 

 

A more upright headlight unit for the 991 reminds me of an earlier Porsche design...

...let's hope the 991 GT3 will look as impressive as that awesome 993 GT2! 

I dont think thats possible, 993 gt2 is the sexiest 911 ever built by miles...

KresoF1:

a928:

KresoF1:

That was explained to you over a month ago...

997.2 CS 7.50min Sport Auto-car equiped with Cup tires, SPASM, PCCBs.

991 CS with Standard tires and normal PASM 7.50min

991 CS with Cups, SPASM, PCCBs 7.37min

991 times according to Mr Achleitner. Same numbers I was in prerelease 991 docs.

Hi Kreso,

Well, in the media Mr Achleitner has been talking about a test lap of 7:40..with a standard 991S of 7:50..this is confrimed with several articles in the German press. So far so good, but..

with your 7:37 (even with Cups)... - that would be better than 458 which has almost 200hp more....- honestly - I dont believe that ..we will see what the official Sport Auto test will be.

If they dont get the 7:37 that you claim - then you will invite me to Croatia for one week of holiday...if I loose I send you some Belgian chocolate..deal? You shouldnt bet against me...most people will loose..OK...its a different industry but..

Was just in Slovenia and Croatia...always like it there

take care & sunny evening,

First-regarding your bet... One week in Croatia(Adriatic coast) is at least for me light years more value then 100g of Belgian chocolate... No effense intended..
 

Second-991S needs only one thing when Sport Auto will test it-to be faster then 997.2CS equiped with CUPs. For me at least 7.50min for 991S with standard tires is more then OK.

BTW, why so much doubt in 991? Do you really think that Porsche will introduce a car that will be inferior to 997.2?

Hi Kreso,

Regarding the chocolates and the adriatic coast..of course I was using some humor..of course..those two things are not comparable. If we ever meet the box of chocolates is of course for free as a gift since youre always well informed...

Ah, I havent heard anything abou the 7:37 time anymore from you..getting cold feet?

Now back to the 991, well, Porsche will not introduce a car that is inferior, but maybe (and realistically) only slighlty better - if not marginally. One thing that has here been not mentioned at all and that is the root cause of these - from now on only very slight performance gains (if not reversing them), being that  Porsche is bound by new EU law to respect the same CO2 emissions etc as others mentioned in the relevant EU Directive. So far Porsche is still, to use your terms "light years" away from compliyng to  this...and there will only be one way of getting the fleet down to 180-150CO2...less weight, hybrid, more efficient engines etc...but the goal will not be to increase performance on the Nürburgring. Matthias Müller CEO of Porsche has already mentioned that in the December 2010 Christophorus issue, a few days ago in the German press there was a similar position mentioend by Porsche officials: tenor: in the future we will have to focus more on efficieny than on performance.

What Im trying to say, the times have changed..a car like the GT2RS with horrendous CO2 emission due to 620bhp..these days are gone. This is my personal opinion - you dont have to believe me..but read the law and then people should tell me how Porsche could get there. I know that Porsche is heavily in contact with US and EU politicians with regard to this issue. If you want more info then just send me a message..believe me I know this subject quite well - as Im dealing with it daily..

Ask your Porsche source...he will confirm that Mr Müller has this thing in his head 24h a day..and that he is acting in a way to get Porsche there..in the end he is only a victim of the system...

However, making a 991 with a panamera intererior is according to me a stupid and an unecessay mistake, like hiding the engine under a plastic cover..Ferrari and others have created beautiful engines..the 991 looks really like nothing in this respect..

Thanks for your infos...maybe one day we have the chance for one these..

 I'm sorry a928 (but w/respect:), but you're getting way to caught up with 'Ring times, and how "the times have dramatically changed", when really that isn't the case. 'Ring times really aren't all that important, as unless the car is going to be used soley for racing, you're not going to brag to your friends that your car can run the Nordschleife 1 second faster than theirs. 

And, while I agree with you that Porsche will have to comply with many future regulations, and this could restrict them a little, there is absolutely NO WAY Porsche would let emission regulations make a new car "worse". What I think they're going to really stride to use the regulations to make their cars better. They're working on a major extension to their Weissach facility, and they cite they will strive to make their cars more efficient, and more performance oriented. I believe they will use the new regulations, and make their future cars much lighter, much more efficient, and as a result, more economical. Remember, efficient DOES NOT mean economical, although it definetly will, but that is almost given. It isn't about making a car that gets good fuel economy, its about making a sportscar that is highly efficient. With efficiency will come the fuel economy. And besides, efficiency is nothing new at Porsche, I just believe they are becoming more focused on efficiency as a result of these regulations.

BTW, Porsche said they're Weissach extension will help them to become more internally independent, and that just because VW owns them doesn't mean they will their cars out. Adding that the 918 began development long before they were acquired by VW. Also they mentioned that though much of the Porsche line is becoming more recently luxurious, they know the 991 is a sportscar, and will try to focus on sportiness. In addition, they mentioned many customers would miss the power of a car like the GT2 RS from Porsche, and with the 991 a car like that would need to have a little bit more power (saying a few more things that virtually confirm a 991 GT2 RS). BTW, the GT2 RS gets an epa rating of 23mpg, so the days of a car like that aren't over.

Hi Carrera,

So far I always agreed with you...but on this one not..let the ring times besides for a moment. But the tough regulations are an enourmous burden for Porsche..just read what the CEO says..I suppose you also have that interview in Christophurus. If you think Porsche can offer one day a 911 with a 7:30 ring time (sorry Im back to my favorite subject-dont kill me!) with a  CO2 of 150 than you must be dreaming. For the rest I agree with you what you write about Weissach etc.

By the way, the 918..and its claimed low emissions..you know that if the regulation is changed with regard to the measurment of the CO2 ..than the 918 cannot claim to be "green" anymore..so far the regulation is focused on a one time test/trial per 100Km..

Times have changed..yes - drastically..otherwise Porsche wouldnt have installed a full time position in the US recently just to be in contact with the  relevant US government departments with the employee directly reporting to the CEO with regards to excemption rules Porsche has on the US market ..for just 4 more years..

PS: Like you I hope the days of a GT2RS arent over..but I fear the worst..what I have described above would rather tend to confirm it..

all the best & safe driving

 ^

I think since Porsche is under VW umbrella there is no need to meet those strict regulations outside the VAG. So, it's the group in whole needs to follow those CO2 emissions.

Thanks for your reply a928. On Nordschleife times, I slightly agree with you. And yes, a 7:30 time with emissions of that sort would be quite impossible, but once again, if Porsche does come out with a new GT2 RS, there is no way it will run the 'Ring any slower than seven minutes and eighteen seconds. So I think on Nordschleife times, we have nothing to worry about. And yes while times are changing, you have to remember, the GT2 RS is a VERY new car. And as I said, it gets 23mpg! That's astonishing for a car that is practically the fastest production car in history around the Nordschleife. I believe with these new regulations, though a burden, Porsche will not forget about performance at all, and would never in a million years allow a newer car to be slower. I think they're going to find all the loopholes possible, and use the regulations all to their advantage, and to better their cars. Personally, as of now I think Porsche is doing a magnificent job of using the regulations to their advantage.

In short I just want to say, not every single car in Porsche's lineup will have to comply with the regulations, for the most part just their fleet in general. So they wouldn't have a problem at all building 650hp 2,900 lbs GT2 RS that can run the Nordschleife in 7:16.  Their future cars will not be watered down or slower.

dxpetrov:

 ^

I think since Porsche is under VW umbrella there is no need to meet those strict regulations outside the VAG. So, it's the group in whole needs to follow those CO2 emissions.

That is - unfortunately -  wrong..for the law it doesnt matter whether one manufacturer is part of a bigger group or not. If I remember correctly other small manufacturers will not be affected by it as long as they stay below a certain production limit..(around 2000cars per year..but Im not sure about that, would have to chack that again)..

Ah, guys, why do you think Porsche is planning a hybrid 911.?.just for the fun of it? No, the goal of the hybrid 911 will be to lower the CO2..nothing else..

 Also just want to say a928, Porsche has got to do what they have to do to comply with regulations, and so they can keep building extreme cars.

Personally the perfect 991 would be a GT Silver Carrera Clubsport (no rear seats, no unnecessary fluff, plastic rear window, lightweight ac, sport buckets, etc.), 7spd manual, with cocoa/black alcantara interior. That's all I would need.

KresoF1:

Just little hint... Yesterday, I was with my P source who is on vacation on Adriatic coast. He told me that:"...despite all worries that rennteamers wrote new 991 will be a better sportscar then 997.2-period. 997.2 Carrera GTS or 991 S? You must be kidding-991 S of course. Naturally with all sporty options. In my opinion even base 991 Carrera with 350ps will be more then sufficient for most costumers." He works over 10 years for P in Z. His infos were always 100% correct. I saw 991 again on screen without any camo(press pics are ready!) and I am sold.

There's no doubt that the 991 will be a greater performer than the latest 997. That is not in question. The issue is that it will be a larger car (both in volume (see photo below) and in wheelbase, and it will forever more distant from the original and that is the crux of the matter. A refined, better handling car, is not necessarily what the true 911 fans are after.

_________________________________________________________________ 

"Dream as impractical, irrational and unnecessary as that may be... Here's to the Dreamers!" -- Porsche AG.

Carrara:

Thanks for your reply a928. On Nordschleife times, I slightly agree with you. And yes, a 7:30 time with emissions of that sort would be quite impossible, but once again, if Porsche does come out with a new GT2 RS, there is no way it will run the 'Ring any slower than seven minutes and eighteen seconds. So I think on Nordschleife times, we have nothing to worry about. And yes while times are changing, you have to remember, the GT2 RS is a VERY new car. And as I said, it gets 23mpg! That's astonishing for a car that is practically the fastest production car in history around the Nordschleife. I believe with these new regulations, though a burden, Porsche will not forget about performance at all, and would never in a million years allow a newer car to be slower. I think they're going to find all the loopholes possible, and use the regulations all to their advantage, and to better their cars. Personally, as of now I think Porsche is doing a magnificent job of using the regulations to their advantage.

In short I just want to say, not every single car in Porsche's lineup will have to comply with the regulations, for the most part just their fleet in general. So they wouldn't have a problem at all building 650hp 2,900 lbs GT2 RS that can run the Nordschleife in 7:16.  Their future cars will not be watered down or slower.

Hi Carrera..

Just hope you are right..well..if there will be a new GT2RS it will be a bit quicker...thats for sure...but I was more talking about the normal boxsters, 911s..

I really hope it will not come in the worst case scenario..but what I have posted doesnt sound good...

take care,

Carrara:

 Also just want to say a928, Porsche has got to do what they have to do to comply with regulations, and so they can keep building extreme cars.

Personally the perfect 991 would be a GT Silver Carrera Clubsport (no rear seats, no unnecessary fluff, plastic rear window, lightweight ac, sport buckets, etc.), 7spd manual, with cocoa/black alcantara interior. That's all I would need.

Oh yes, if there would be clubsport version that would be really interesting...but will it also have the electric steering...???..and would you still not be able to see the engine..?

Lets see..

I will stay with 997 GT3 or 997GT2..I will upgrade in the next days either to 2010GT3 or GT2...and then I will have to wait until 2014 anyhow...a normal 911 is not something for me (althoug the 997.2S would be a good daily driver - still a real 911...if the 991 will still be a real 911 remains to be seen.

Im looking forward to rennteams moderator explanation why he did not wait for 991..he gave us some reasons..but ..I want more details

Carrara:

'Ring times really aren't all that important, as unless the car is going to be used soley for racing, you're not going to brag to your friends that your car can run the Nordschleife 1 second faster than theirs. 

 I tend to disagree - I am really convinced that you can feel how capable a car is (measured in terms of lap times) in day-to-day situations. Based on my experience, you can feel if a setup/a suspension/the steering is done nicely even if you just drive at medium speed on a public road. Thus, I would even recommend looking at lap time benchmarks when picking a car which will never see a track 

^^ Very good evaluation, you may have changed my opinion a little bit.

a928: About not being able to see the engine, I agree, that's a bit strange, but you can't really see much of the engine on the 997 anyway. But I bet if there are enough complaints in the future Porsche will bring back a proper engine compartment. And the electric power steering.. I don't think it would be right to make any judgment until test drives begin, and magazines report back on how the system works. If you can't tell its electric, then there you go you have an extra 2 or 3mpg with out compromised feel, but if it compromises the feel, I bet Porsche will reevaluate the system. 

Adias: The 991 really isn't all that much larger. I think the high rear end, wider front, and pinched rear green house make the car appear to be larger than it actually is. According to Porsche the 991 feels just as compact as the 997 while driving.

MKSGR:

Carrara:

'Ring times really aren't all that important, as unless the car is going to be used soley for racing, you're not going to brag to your friends that your car can run the Nordschleife 1 second faster than theirs. 

 I tend to disagree - I am really convinced that you can feel how capable a car is (measured in terms of lap times) in day-to-day situations. Based on my experience, you can feel if a setup/a suspension/the steering is done nicely even if you just drive at medium speed on a public road. Thus, I would even recommend looking at lap time benchmarks when picking a car which will never see a track 

 
Totally agree with you MKSGR 

If the car handles brilliantly in the most demanding scenario, it handles normal scenarios with ease.

And this is discernible. You can feel this depth of engineering, testing etc every time you drive a Porsche.

--

997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red

 ^^ Depth of engineering! Yes! I think we should all take a moment and commend Porsche for how much testing they have done on the 991! I can't think of one car manufacturer that tests their cars as much or as hard as Porsche does.

Greetings All - 

I'm looking for a 911 daily driver, and have been considering my options with the model change coming.  So naturally, after years of absence, I came back to Rennteam to figure out what's really going on.  :-)

Well, today I put a deposit on a 991S.  

To explain my decision:  I test drove a GTS today, and although a really nice car, it just didn't thrill me.  My last 911 was a 996TT.  I liked the power, but was bored by lack of exhaust note and over-refinement.  I really want a GT3 (2007 or 2010), but with very young kids, it's a shame to exclude them from weekend outings for lack of a backseat.

RC's post gave me enough pause to drive the GTS, and who knows, I may change my mind.  The deposit is refundable.

Anyway, put me in the camp of anxious for RC's Monday post and, of course, September 15th.

Thanks for all of the valuable insight.

>>>>>>>>>>>

Edit:  Just read RC's comments on his GTS.  I'm glad to take away the advice that for the kind of money it costs, it's not worth settling for less than just right.

Now the question:  Will the 991S be just right?

the most beautiful 911 ever .....there will never be a sexy 911 like the 993 gt2...... 

993 c2

PMeegan:

Greetings All - 

I'm looking for a 911 daily driver, and have been considering my options with the model change coming.  So naturally, after years of absence, I came back to Rennteam to figure out what's really going on.  :-)

Well, today I put a deposit on a 991S.  

To explain my decision:  I test drove a GTS today, and although a really nice car, it just didn't thrill me.  My last 911 was a 996TT.  I liked the power, but was bored by lack of exhaust note and over-refinement.  I really want a GT3 (2007 or 2010), but with very young kids, it's a shame to exclude them from weekend outings for lack of a backseat.

RC's post gave me enough pause to drive the GTS, and who knows, I may change my mind.  The deposit is refundable.

Anyway, put me in the camp of anxious for RC's Monday post and, of course, September 15th.

Thanks for all of the valuable insight.

>>>>>>>>>>>

Edit:  Just read RC's comments on his GTS.  I'm glad to take away the advice that for the kind of money it costs, it's not worth settling for less than just right.

Now the question:  Will the 991S be just right?

 

 

 

 

Hi PMeegan,
 

Welcome to Rennteam here...

Regarding the 911, well if the GTS is too boring for you I cannot imagine how the 991 would beat that as it will feel probably more comfortable..

My advice, ge the deposit back and buy immediately a GT3 second hand. Besides, as the 991 will have increased in purchase price - you will loose - MUCH - less money on this thing (I bet you if you drive the 991 out of the showroom you lost already close to 10,000$). Besides, you will have the latest GT3..and until 2014 you wont be "slow" either on the roads..

There is nothing like a GT3 - believe me...and about the kids...come on..be a man..you wife wont be reading here....Im sure the 911 will not be your only car..

greetings

xander71:

the most beautiful 911 ever .....there will never be a sexy 911 like the 993 gt2...... 

If we already talking about most sexiest 911 ever.....for me it's 1993 964 Turbo

2008 Range Rover Sport Supercharged

2007 997 GT3

2006 Mercedes G500

1993 964 Turbo (Sold)

If only you didn't sell it totally agree! 

indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 

BlackOctober:

xander71:

the most beautiful 911 ever .....there will never be a sexy 911 like the 993 gt2...... 

If we already talking about most sexiest 911 ever.....for me it's 1993 964 Turbo

That's a good one (especially Turbo 3.6), but my favorite is 1973 RSR 2.8...
 

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs).  Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550 Maranello

Grant, isn't the car you're showing the '74 RSR Turbo? I agree to the 2.8 RSR being the most sexy 911 though!

 ^^ I don't think its the Turbo. This particular version is looks to be a 2.8 RSR. I can see how it can be confused with the RSR Turbo though. Both have such fantastic rear ends! I believe on the 2.8 RSR, Martini were the only to put those extended rear fenders on their cars. They had two similar cars (#46 and #47) run in the 1973 24 Hours of Le Mans.

 http://www.gmotors.co.uk/news/latest-2012-porsche-911-991-spy-shots-even-less-disguise/

Thanks dxpetrov!
Slowly but surely... :-)

Christian, can you already give us a date on which we'll see the first "official" pictures on rennteam?

 I really hope that sunroof is an option only.

Welcome to Rennteam dxpetrov and thanks for the pictures..

2006 997 C2S Cab, Triple Black,  2006 Cayenne Titanium Iceland Silver Metalic New York

 It 's looking good. The front eye brows seem actually to be much smaller then what the camo is showing and not going so out. That would be better !

 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm