Jun 30, 2011 2:16:31 PM
Everything I've read and seen so far leave no room for excitement. I think the 991 could very well be the next "996 moment" for Porsche. It was faster, newer, better… but less desirable then the 993.
The interior looks horrible. The doors look so busy like if there's a coffee pot heater inside somewhere. The central console as wide as on FWD Audis (trans. maybe?).
All in all. It looks like a compromise between (1) a larger GT car to rival BMW/Mercedes and (2) not committing resources to a new risky project of the 928 caliber.
I sure hope I am wrong. Nothing better then seeing the 997 prices go down a little, bring a GT3 997.2 within my modest range.
Jun 30, 2011 2:40:43 PM
a928:
Sport Auto did that already with the current 997S PDK..however with tyres not available for the 997S if my memory is correct.
This is not correct. The time was done with Cup tyres which are allowed on the 997.2 by the factory. Such tyres were not allowed on the 997.1 due to oil starvation worries. The 997.2, although still without a dry sump engine, has an improved lubrication system that is not affected at higher g forces.
"Form follows function"
Jun 30, 2011 3:50:41 PM
At the rate we're going at, will there be anything left on the 991 that we don't already know about before the official launch ...
RT Moderator - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm sports suspension/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection
Jun 30, 2011 4:54:44 PM
I really hope this car has some sexy exterior design details to make me forget about the "confused" interior. I HATE that center console. One thing I LOVED my 997 for was the free space around the driver.
There is no try. Just do.
Hmm... According to my source with optional sport suspension(SPASM) and PTV new 20" are a must. BTW, also ride seems to be much better then on 997.2 series.
Another small detail for Porsche freaks-paddles on optional Sport Steering wheel are shorter on lower side-design is the same as on 997.2 but, paddles are shorter on lower(or down) side. You can notice this when steering wheel is in central position.
Since I know pretty much all details about new 991 Carrera models I have NO doubt at all in them. Give me new Carrera S ASAP.
KresoF1:
.... Since I know pretty much all details about new 991 Carrera models...
This is not fair...
I like what I see or rather what I think I see thru the camo in these pictures. I just hope that this oval "things" on the back lights are just the stickers and not the actual design underneath.
--
Matt C
2009 997 GT3 Mk2 / 1988 911 3.2 Conv.
KresoF1:
Since I know pretty much all details about new 991 Carrera models I have NO doubt at all in them. Give me new Carrera S ASAP.
Are you comfortable that the electric power steering is not going to be a backwards step?
73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs). Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550 Maranello
KresoF1:
For those interested size of 20" tires for 991 Carrera and Carrera S are:
245/35-20 fronts
295/30-20 rears
Sounds odd. I have 235/35R19s FR and 305/30R19 RE on mine. I was actually hoping the new one would go even wider in the back. Plus wtf is up with them using Goodyears on the mule. Ugh, they build a horrible tire. It should be Bridgestone or Michelin only.
Rich_NY:
KresoF1:
For those interested size of 20" tires for 991 Carrera and Carrera S are:
245/35-20 fronts
295/30-20 rears
Sounds odd. I have 235/35R19s FR and 305/30R19 RE on mine. I was actually hoping the new one would go even wider in the back. Plus wtf is up with them using Goodyears on the mule. Ugh, they build a horrible tire. It should be Bridgestone or Michelin only.
Makes sense to me that with the better weight distribution of the new chassis that they'd give more front rubber and less rear.
73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs). Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550 Maranello
KresoF1:
Just to add... Electronic hand brake in sportscars...
Ferrari 458 Italia
Lamborghini LP700 Aventador
McLaren MP4-12C
Mercedes SLS AMG
Just because nearly all new cars have it, that doesn't mean that it's desirable.
The secret of life is to admire without desiring.
Pentium:
I really hope this car has some sexy exterior design details to make me forget about the "confused" interior. I HATE that center console. One thing I LOVED my 997 for was the free space around the driver.
Not a big fan of the new interior either. Of course we will get used to it rather quickly, but I neither like the Panamera-style centre console (I like it in the Panamera, but I don't need that in a 911), nor do I fancy this door styling. Just look at the handles...
The secret of life is to admire without desiring.
reginos:
a928:
Sport Auto did that already with the current 997S PDK..however with tyres not available for the 997S if my memory is correct.
This is not correct. The time was done with Cup tyres which are allowed on the 997.2 by the factory. Such tyres were not allowed on the 997.1 due to oil starvation worries. The 997.2, although still without a dry sump engine, has an improved lubrication system that is not affected at higher g forces.
Hi reginos,
I know about the engine differences with 997.1 and 997.2 ..but Im not sure whether you could officially get the 997.2 from Porsche dealer with the cup tyres..
Whatever, if the 991S is doing 7:50 than this is not a real big leap forward..at least much smaller than anticipated..proven by the 8:05 from the normal 991..the 997.1S did this already..not with Cup tyres my friend :) and only 5hp more !!
The 7:37 could have been some special mule test car..with maybe cup tyres..or whatever..all this needs to proven first by an independent test.
May I remind that before the Sport Auto test, Porsche was talking of 7:18 for the GT2RS..it became a 7:24 I think...lets see..
The intererior is definately a step backwards..someone already said it..maybe Porsche will have a "996 aha effect" again..Im sure it will rain masses of letters of complaint for copying and pasting the panamera and cayenne into a 911..this is unacceptable..
Jun 30, 2011 10:58:50 PM
a928:.proven by the 8:05 from the normal 991..the 997.1S did this already..not with Cup tyres my friend :) and only 5hp more !!
You are forgetting a small detail, the regular 991 means 991Carrera aka standard suspensions, while CarreraS has a suspension upgrade of PASM, that is were the difference lies, the 991Carrera with standard suspensions does the same a the 997CarreraS with PASM. That is partly why the 991CarreraS does the ring a full 14 seconds faster than the 991Carrera, which is HUGE. So if you are going to compare 997 and 991 compare similar models.
Rossi:
KresoF1:
Just to add... Electronic hand brake in sportscars...
Ferrari 458 Italia
Lamborghini LP700 Aventador
McLaren MP4-12C
Mercedes SLS AMG
Just because nearly all new cars have it, that doesn't mean that it's desirable.
Don't think any of those other cars have a 6-cylinder rear-mounted boxer engine either.
fritz
Carlos: I have no doubt the 991 will be an awesome car. But it may feel very different from the 911 some of us care about... A report (see link below) I read already says that its 'character' is very different. Of course, it must be - a 4" longer wheelbase is an enormous change.
I repeat... no doubt it will be great, but will it be a 911? will it dance? For many current 911 buyers it may not matter.
--
http://www.insideline.com/porsche/911/2012/first-ride-2012-porsche-911.html
Snippet:
"The next big change involves the wheelbase. Since its launch in 1963, the 911's short wheelbase has been a defining characteristic of the car much like the flat-6 engine in the trunk.
But now, and for only the fourth time in 48 years, that wheelbase has been extended. By how much we can't say, as our access to the car was made on the condition that we would keep certain details under wraps. We can say that the extra space between the wheels does more than merely provide more legroom in the back; it fundamentally affects the character of the car."
And a quote from autocar's preview that hints to my thesis:
"
But is it still a 911? If it is, my sense is that it will be a rather different one – even more capable, usable, spacious, comfortable and quiet. But whether this has been achieved at the expense of some of that magical 997 ability to make you feel hardwired into the road surface, it is simply impossible to say without a steering wheel in your hands."
--
_________________________________________________________________
"Dream as impractical, irrational and unnecessary as that may be... Here's to the Dreamers!" -- Porsche AG.
911 Carrera 3.2 - 968 CS - 997 Carrera
Misha011:
pjd:
KresoF1, can you tell (in same way) if the "look" of the new model make some difference from the previous (997.2) especially the headlights
Kreso , if it's anything like this - just stay silent
New headlights? Evolution rather then revolution.
Jul 1, 2011 5:55:47 AM
Mikla:
Interesting info on the new manual gearbox (from Autocar): "The PDK double clutch auto has been sharpened up again but it is the manual that might be introduced that breaks new ground. In effect it is a manually controlled single clutch version of PDK which means, for the first time in any manual production car I can think of, seven forward speeds. In fact the first six ratios are identical to the auto, though a slightly shorter, more sporting top gear is fitted. The ramifications go far beyond the extra cog. This means the old gearbox is no more, so Porsche’s Motorsport colleagues working on the next generation of GT3s down in Weissach have nothing to strap to the old race-based flat six that’s powered all their cars since 1999. So this noble motor has been retired, presumably to be replaced by the somewhat simpler, cheaper, more modern and unrelated direct injection engine used by all other 911s. Quite what will be done to it for the new GT3 remains to be seen".
Yes, I'm also intrigued by this as well. What engine is going to be used in the GT3 - If its this MA1, then how are they going to get around the dry sump issue?. It will be interesting to see the developments.
Grant:
Rich_NY:
KresoF1:
For those interested size of 20" tires for 991 Carrera and Carrera S are:
245/35-20 fronts
295/30-20 rears
Sounds odd. I have 235/35R19s FR and 305/30R19 RE on mine. I was actually hoping the new one would go even wider in the back. Plus wtf is up with them using Goodyears on the mule. Ugh, they build a horrible tire. It should be Bridgestone or Michelin only.
Makes sense to me that with the better weight distribution of the new chassis that they'd give more front rubber and less rear.
To add-front track is much wider also on 991 models. Difference front and rear track size is much narrower then on 997.2 models.
Tires? Porsche worked very closely with Pirelli for 991 models. Specially on 20".