Crown

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WW said:

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ajcastaneda said:

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WW said:

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MKSGR said:

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CF said:
What if I were to go out and buy a Z06 based on marketing made by Corvette stating that the car can lap the Ring in 7.42,9 and later find out that this statement was completely false.

If the car eventually with a race car driver of Corvette's choice weren't able to reproduce that laptime or even get close, let's say 7.58-8.05 then what

I would like to sue them for false marketing.

You can't make claims as a manufacturer and later on not be able to back them up in independent tests.

What if they stated that the car had a topspeed of 225 MPH or that the car had 700 HP

Although Nick is a lawyer he never answered to my very similar question some months ago. I fully agree with you. The GM marketing strategy is inacceptable.

You have to be joking!

Are you saying to me that the No. 1 Auto Maker in the World is resorting to false advertising to sell just 5,000 or so Z06's out of their millions of vehicles. Do you guys even hear yourself? You sounded like a bunch little children who saw that some neighbour's kid got a bigger toy. Man, how pathetic can you be?

These Z06's are selling crazy over in the US. If I had not been stuck in Shanghai working, I would've have snatched one up instantly. There are vedios of this stock Z06 running down a Gallardo and running even with a Carrera GT on a track event floating on the net. This new Z is every bit as good in performance as advertised. You don't believe me, I will look it up.

With just a simple 1 7/8" header and a slightly bigger cam swap, this car is making 554 rwhp, that is actuall power to the rear wheels not BHP that you all like to talk about.

Come on people, pull your heads out of your @sses and smell the coffee. You are in total denial!

For one thing, they aren't going to be the #1 automaker in the world for long -- absolute garbage of a company that GM is. As much as all of us debate the Ring track times, if I were mulling to buy a 997TT, I wouldn't even be looking at a P-O-S, plastic filled, boat of a car that a Corvette is. I could care less if the Z06 was faster than a CGT. A Porsche is a Porsche - something that a maker of Cobalts and Silverados can NEVER be.

Loggerheads like you who probably have never owned either cars are the problem here on this thread. You have no clue, PERIOD!

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WW said:

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RC said:

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WW said:
Try this Video:

Gallardo vs. C6 Z06

So what? WOW...the Z06 has gained two meters on the STRAIGHT LINE at what speed? And what about the drivers? I bet they both knew how to shift, right?
And when the Z06 takes off, the Gallardo actually slowed down (you can hear it by the wind/engine noise).


1. NEVER EVER compare cars with different drivers, this is worth...NOTHING.
2. straight line performance doesn't say anything (and if it would, the 997 Turbo would be faster, even with an auto tranny... )

You want to see a Porsche DRIVING (not playing around), watch this video: http://928supermodel.com/media/cgt.html

I have never been on a board where there are so many uinformed idiots. I am out of here.

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MKSGR said:

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WW said:

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RC said:

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WW said:
Try this Video:

Gallardo vs. C6 Z06

So what? WOW...the Z06 has gained two meters on the STRAIGHT LINE at what speed? And what about the drivers? I bet they both knew how to shift, right?
And when the Z06 takes off, the Gallardo actually slowed down (you can hear it by the wind/engine noise).


1. NEVER EVER compare cars with different drivers, this is worth...NOTHING.
2. straight line performance doesn't say anything (and if it would, the 997 Turbo would be faster, even with an auto tranny... )

You want to see a Porsche DRIVING (not playing around), watch this video: http://928supermodel.com/media/cgt.html

I have never been on a board where there are so many uinformed idiots. I am out of here.

That is a very good decision. GM [censored]

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fritz said:
Problem resolved?

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Boyko23 said: I wrote that I have a C6 and what do you think - am I please to be beaten everywhere from a CS? I don't know why having much Detroit power under the hood does not help me at all
I think that you have to wait for real track times and i am sure that you will be very silent then As ever before
For you (americans) straight line is everything. Even the tracks in US are almost 80% straight lines, so the cars are made for straight lines... Now Chevy changed some of the things towards better and C6 and Z06 are great cars especialy for the money, but you have nothing to proof the phenomenal performance promised from Detroit!
On the other hand Porsche as ever will put its time on the Ring as soon as the car is launched. So you just have to wait a little bit

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DamienL said:
Wow! Another 10 page thread surrounding the ZO6 and the ring.

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WW said:There are plenty Titinium

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WW said:

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Boyko23 said: I wrote that I have a C6 and what do you think - am I please to be beaten everywhere from a CS? I don't know why having much Detroit power under the hood does not help me at all
I think that you have to wait for real track times and i am sure that you will be very silent then As ever before
For you (americans) straight line is everything. Even the tracks in US are almost 80% straight lines, so the cars are made for straight lines... Now Chevy changed some of the things towards better and C6 and Z06 are great cars especialy for the money, but you have nothing to proof the phenomenal performance promised from Detroit!
On the other hand Porsche as ever will put its time on the Ring as soon as the car is launched. So you just have to wait a little bit

Man, have you ever even been in the US? Do you even know the difference between a C6 and C6Z? Do you know that in the States of Texas and California, there are more race tracks than there are in the whole of Europe? And they do not include drag strips.

The only parts that C6 and C6 Z06 share are some of the body panels. Everything else is switched out for weight saving. There are more fiberglass in a C6Z than the 997TT. There are plenty Titinium and Magnesium in that car that none was found in the older 996. You guys are incredibly closed off. It like you have no Internet access. Go do a search on Google. You would find plenty facts about the Z06. Go visit this site: Corvette C6 Z06

Learn more and you shall benefit!

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turbolite said:

Still just a leaf spring car with obvious limitations...

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WW said:
These Z06's are selling crazy over in the US. If I had not been stuck in Shanghai working, I would've have snatched one up instantly.

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ocnatv said:
Dont forget that this new Z06 was derived from the C6R race car that has won the American Lemans series the last 4 out of 5 years. I believe the the race car and production car share the same chassy. Its an all hydroformed aluminum chassy. Also, the suspension geometry, aerodynamics, and drivetrain are shared. The small block engine revs to 7000 rpms and is set far back on the chassy. So it has characterics of a mid-engine car. Also, it gets 28 miles to the gallon. The new Z06 is a beautiful car as im sure the new 997tt will be.. The only think lacking on the new Z06 is the interior quality which cannot touch porsche. Other than that the Z06 is a superior performance car.

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Med den lange omgang, var det begrænset hvor mange flyvende omgange Le Mans vinderen ville få til sin rådighed, så der blev gået til stålet fra start i den blå Corvette C6 Z06

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Turbo Al said:

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WW said:
These Z06's are selling crazy over in the US. If I had not been stuck in Shanghai working, I would've have snatched one up instantly.

Dude,

You just scolded everyone on this thread for questioning the ZO6's abilities when everyone hasn't even driven the car, but, alas, you pump up the ZO6's credentials while you yourself admit that you haven't driven the car yet either!

BTW, I am a blue-blooded American who has owned innumerable GM cars in my life, and I have serious interest in the supercharged "Blue Devil" version of the 'Vette if they decide to make it, I have no universal animosity towards GM or the 'Vette, BUT I do find it odd that if the car is capable of such excellent performance, that a pro driver for one of the rags hasn't yet taken a true stock ZO6 to the 'Ring for an "official" timing.

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ocnatv said:
Dont forget that this new Z06 was derived from the C6R race car that has won the American Lemans series the last 4 out of 5 years. I believe the the race car and production car share the same chassy. Its an all hydroformed aluminum chassy. Also, the suspension geometry, aerodynamics, and drivetrain are shared. The small block engine revs to 7000 rpms and is set far back on the chassy. So it has characterics of a mid-engine car. Also, it gets 28 miles to the gallon. The new Z06 is a beautiful car as im sure the new 997tt will be.. The only think lacking on the new Z06 is the interior quality which cannot touch porsche. Other than that the Z06 is a superior performance car.

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JMShrink said: I'd be surprised that if I had a chance to drive both the Z06 and the 997TT, that I'd chose the GM over the Porsche in this instance either.

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LowPolarMoment said:

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JMShrink said: I'd be surprised that if I had a chance to drive both the Z06 and the 997TT, that I'd chose the GM over the Porsche in this instance either.

I'd prefer a Continental Flying Spur over a Passat. Why not be fair about it. How about a Cayman S vs a Z-06? People generally shop within a price range. Sounds kinda silly, a Cayman S vs a Z-06, doesn't it? The Corvette interior might look cheap compared to a Porsche. But Porsche had to replace my engine at 31000 miles. Never heard of that with a small block Chevy. So how many would prefer the Boxster coupe? Oh, I forgot. It's not a Boxster coupe. It's a Cayman. Talk about false advertising!

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Crash said:

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MKSGR said:

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WW said:

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RC said:

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WW said:
Try this Video:

Gallardo vs. C6 Z06

So what? WOW...the Z06 has gained two meters on the STRAIGHT LINE at what speed? And what about the drivers? I bet they both knew how to shift, right?
And when the Z06 takes off, the Gallardo actually slowed down (you can hear it by the wind/engine noise).


1. NEVER EVER compare cars with different drivers, this is worth...NOTHING.
2. straight line performance doesn't say anything (and if it would, the 997 Turbo would be faster, even with an auto tranny... )

You want to see a Porsche DRIVING (not playing around), watch this video: http://928supermodel.com/media/cgt.html

I have never been on a board where there are so many uinformed idiots. I am out of here.

That is a very good decision. GM [censored]

God, I wanna know what lies under that [censored] thingy

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CF said:
The reported time of 7.42,9 was made with a flying start!

http://www.rennteam.com/forum/board/8/Other_Sports_Cars/page1.html?vs=6

Holy thread revival! I was about to respond to some of the posts until I realized they were posted when I was still a young man.  

For all these recent posts about the Corvette: I have my own bias and would like an American sports car to compete well against ROW's sports cars, but a drive in the Corvette dashed all hope. The Corvette is an example of why subjective evalution is critical in car review, and objective numbers are only half the story.

Subjectively, the best word to describe the Corvette's is "imprecision." The brake is spongy and feels imprecise, the steering is imprecise, and gear shifting feels spongy and imprecise. Coming from a Turbo, I was shocked at the difference, particularly the gear box. I don't deny that the Corvette is a very fast car, but to own it? Sadly, no.

--
 

Regards,
Can
997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic "Stage 2" ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Custom Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )

Great thread.

Cannga +1. Although i've only driven both in relative short periods and cant speak from an ownership perspective like you can. I think you are 100% correct though. Number's only do so much... in fact, they are MOST unimportant to me of all things... Quality, heritage and precision are my criteria... Porsche is the best. Other's have other criteria... good for them.

indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 

Being a driving school instructor/amatuer time trial champion, I have driven both platforms over the past several years.  While yes I am a Corvette racer (so I guess that does make me biased), here is my best attempt at an unbiased opinion.  I race Corvette's primarly because they are much more cost effective to race in the US than racing imports in general, and they are just as fast or faster especially with mods (which are 1/3rd the price of imports for US).

Porsche 911

• definately higher quality build
• awd models make better street cars, especially in inclement weather
• they are MUCH more expensive
• parts are much more expensive
• they feel good at low speed and around town driving conditions
• with the rear engine I am always able to get on the gas sooner coming out of corners, which keeps them competitive with higher hp cars
• at the limit they take a special talent with a lot of finese or the tail will wag
• you are constantly trying to make up for lack up power by maximizing corner speed and applying throttle as early in the apex as possible (this is your only hope of holding off high powered sports cars).
• awd models are not good at the limit on racetrack conditions, but are better suited to 95% of typical spirited driving or road conditions, they simply push too much in the corners...hence one reason why rwd GT3 with less power is faster
• interior is wonderful
• Car impresses your afluent friends more than a Corvette ever could.

Corvette Z06

• noticeable lower tolerances in terms of build quality and inferior interior
• they sit very low and stiff, with large body overhangs over the front wheel (constantly scraping on driveways)
• they are much more cost effective (cheaper) in terms of bang for the buck and are much cheaper to mod ($10k+ in mods will put you in or past enzo territory).
• the do not feel as good as their german counterpart in low speed driving conditions, they have huge tires, are stiffly sprung, are very wide which makes parking lots and city driving a hassle.  Not to mention the shifter is heavier as is the clutch to deal with up to 500ft lbs of torque (can't have your cake and eat it too...not for this price).
• almost perfect 50/50 weight distribution makes it a nice neutral handling car at all speeds.  Takes no special talent to drive relatively quickly.  A novice could come up to speed quickly (as long as he/she respects the throttle).
• at the limit is where this car wants to live and no where else (Jeremy was not so wrong on Top Gear).  You are either driving this car at 9-10/10th's and have found a pure magic wonderland, or if you take this car for a test drive around town at less than 90mph which gives you the wrong impression.  This is not a touring sedan or meant to be driven at 45mph throuhg city roads.  It is designed to take long sweeping corners at 100+mph with perfect stability.  Unfortunately, the test drive should be at the race track, not on the street.
• Handling, braking, and strait line power at the limit are awesome and are in line with cars costing up to $200k, rather than $75k.  If I am behind a 911/M3/5 in a corner, once we get on the strait, I am gone... and he can not catch up through the next set of turns and hence I will win.
• rwd in general works at the absolute limit and provides neutral balance (eg GT2/3).  You tend to steer with the throttle, and the actual steering wheel is just used to point the car in the general direction.  But the car is worthless in snow and handful in heavy rain.
• Steering, gearbox, and handling only show their true wonders and come alive at the limit.  It is like having a race car on the street...  normal driving conditions would somewhat fustrate you with a heavy gearbox, race clutch, stiff suspension, and lower stance.  This is not the purpose of this vehicle (driving at street speeds).
• Torque and power combined with the low weight make this car as tempting as a hot porn star ready to serve your every whim.  The pull at 2500rpm in 4th gear is something you need to experience.  The power is beyond addictive and brings out the 15 year old in the most mature individuals.
• Will not impress your affliuent friends (especially those who aren't particularly into cars).

In the end I choose Corvette because for the money, they are faster than Porsche's at the race track especially with the right combination of mods.  I can maintain the car at  a moderate cost.  I walk modded GT3's without issue, and are out of their visual site in less than a single lap for almost 1/2 price.  For a young mid-level corporate managment guy (basically succesful, but still working man), I'd prefer to spend my hard earned money on the Vette and get the experience of a lifetime (I want the adreline rush of an unholy beast, rather than sitting at the wine festival trying to impress my friends with my expensive achievement trophy).  Maybe when I am 50+, I will retire into a nice 911 Carrera and attend the wine festival, but at this point I know I would look back at my 30-40's and say (I should have bought the vette and rode the lightning while I had the chance.)  You are young once.  To pass an F430 Scuderia on a race track is something one should experience and should not be just for the inherently wealthy if possible.  The wine and cheese would only melt and stain your racing suit.

Now it's up to you to decide...would the helmet only mess up your hair, or are you ready to get drunk on adrenaline?

very well said !  However, most of the "non GT3" driver very rarely take their pride & joy to a race track and give it full beans being afraid of smashing it - and even a lot of GT3 owners are eighter not able or simply afraid of maxing it out - unless money is no object as a week-end on full beans is not a cheap one....

Still to drive a nice 911 on a track is car-heaven...no matter who's faster

nd

Thanks for sharing your view with such clarity and passion  That was an interesting and thought-provoking read

RT Moderator - 997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm sports suspension/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection