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    Jan 26, 2006 12:06:48 AM

    Crash
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    Reply to: ocnatv

    Re: Talking of the Corvette Z06 and the 997 Turbo...

    Quote:
    ocnatv said:
    From what I have been reading on the corvette forums about the new Z06 is that its very fast around the track. Its very fast period. I also dont think comparing it to the standard C6 does any good. Although it looks similar, everything about the car is completely different. Also, you can install headers for only 2k to get an additional 30 lb/tq. Talked to someone at my local corvette shop who just installed headers, added coilover suspension, and has slicks and he beat everyone at the track including Vipers and heavily modded GT2's. I strongly belive that unless this new 997 turbo is very fast, the new Z06 will leave it and almost any other production car under 200k bloodied at the track.



    Put slicks on a Miata and it'll give a hard time to most Porsches and Vipers on street tyres. Also, the guy may be a better driver than he gives himself credit for.

    Jan 26, 2006 12:09:24 AM

    nberry Offline
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Talking of the Corvette Z06 and the 997 Turbo...

    I believe CR's TT has 600hp and sure it will get the perf.

    The Z06 was driven by Magnueson the official race driver for their competitive Corvette. The did tweak the suspension but not sure about the tires though my guess they are production tires for the Z06. These people will not taint their reputations to lie about the performance. Dave Hill and Magnueson confirmed the times in interviews. It has been widely published.

    Think about it; if the GT2 with 472hp can do 8:45 why can't a 505hp Z06 with equal or less weight driven by a prof. driver do it in 3 sec. less?

    The reason why nobody wants to give the car to Sarma and friends are obvious. The perception of objectivity is just that; perception and not fact. Porsche's always do well with Sarma and the other cars....well you know what I think.

    Finally, we all are chasing our tails on this because at the end of the day these numbers are meaningless. Too many variables and frankly in real world driving totally useless.As I said often maybe Porsche should stencil the Ring times on the front windshield for their enthusiast base. That and a dollar may buy them a cup of coffee.

    Jan 26, 2006 12:12:07 AM

    DamienL
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    Reply to: ocnatv

    Re: Talking of the Corvette Z06 and the 997 Turbo...

    Between the ZO6 and 997TT I don't think there will be a huge amount of difference at any track. It's all down to the driver. A lot of people with extremely high performance cars can't use their cars to the full potential.

    At the ring, a time of anything around 7:45 would be fantastic for the the 997TT.

    Jan 26, 2006 12:14:53 AM

    DamienL
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    Reply to: nberry

    Re: Talking of the Corvette Z06 and the 997 Turbo...

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    As I said often maybe Porsche should stencil the Ring times on the front windshield for their enthusiast base. That and a dollar may buy them a cup of coffee.





    Nick, I can't understand why you don't work for Porsche's marketing team. What a great idea.

    Jan 26, 2006 1:25:55 AM

    svtrader1
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    Reply to: nberry

    Re: Talking of the Corvette Z06 and the 997 Turbo...

    Quote:
    nberry said:

    Think about it; if the GT2 with 472hp can do 8:45 why can't a 505hp Z06 with equal or less weight driven by a prof. driver do it in 3 sec. less?





    Because only von Saurma(aka Superman) can drive that fast! Everybody else are rank amateurs.

    Jan 26, 2006 2:36:06 AM

    SoCalHoosier
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    Reply to: svtrader1

    Re: Talking of the Corvette Z06 and the 997 Turbo...

    Quote:
    svtrader1 said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:

    Think about it; if the GT2 with 472hp can do 8:45 why can't a 505hp Z06 with equal or less weight driven by a prof. driver do it in 3 sec. less?





    Because only von Saurma(aka Superman) can drive that fast! Everybody else are rank amateurs.



    What's even more laughable is the fact that there seems to be a distinct European bias with Sport Auto. After all American muscle cars priced at half cost would make the Euro cars look bad.

    The sad thing is they need to realize that buyers in this class expect the very best. No one feels good when their 911 gets dusted by a Mitsubishi. The product loyalty from some of you is exactly why Porsche will not give us what we want NOW. But instead they are allowed to make tiny mods and continue to sell a dated car.

    Do you realize that as a group this entire board as well as other Porsche boards could really put pressure on Porsche's marketing/R&D (they are the same department)

    Jan 26, 2006 2:38:18 AM

    brunner
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    Reply to: SoCalHoosier

    Re: Talking of the Corvette Z06 and the 997 Turbo...

    Oh, great, ANOTHER nick...

    Jan 26, 2006 2:45:23 AM

    SoCalHoosier
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    Reply to: brunner

    Re: Talking of the Corvette Z06 and the 997 Turbo...

    Quote:
    brunner said:
    Oh, great, ANOTHER nick...



    Oh great another zombie Porsche fan without a mind of their own.:an

    I won't even buy a Vette or Viper yet I think it sucks that Porsche wants to consistently ignore competition to try to save a buck (or extend a product life)
    What really sucks is that we all like Porsche yet some of you can't be open-minded about sports cars in general. I'd love to know if some of you either work for Porsche or a dealership. Otherwise no one else could be that mindless to think they can do no wrong.

    Jan 26, 2006 2:50:11 AM

    brunner
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    Reply to: SoCalHoosier

    Re: Talking of the Corvette Z06 and the 997 Turbo...

    Quote:
    SoCalHoosier said:
    Quote:
    brunner said:
    Oh, great, ANOTHER nick...



    Oh great another zombie Porsche fan without a mind of their own.:an



    QED.

    Jan 26, 2006 2:58:55 AM

    SoCalHoosier
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    Reply to: brunner

    Re: Talking of the Corvette Z06 and the 997 Turbo...

    Quote:
    brunner said:
    Quote:
    SoCalHoosier said:
    Quote:
    brunner said:
    Oh, great, ANOTHER nick...



    Oh great another zombie Porsche fan without a mind of their own.:an



    QED.



    Grow up... or learn to debate. One or the other would be fine.

    Name the production cars that could out-perform the 993 turbo when it was first introduced.

    Jan 26, 2006 5:00:04 AM

    WBH
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    Reply to: SoCalHoosier

    Re: Talking of the Corvette Z06 and the 997 Turbo...

    Quote:
    SoCalHoosier said:
    Quote:
    svtrader1 said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:

    Think about it; if the GT2 with 472hp can do 8:45 why can't a 505hp Z06 with equal or less weight driven by a prof. driver do it in 3 sec. less?





    Because only von Saurma(aka Superman) can drive that fast! Everybody else are rank amateurs.



    What's even more laughable is the fact that there seems to be a distinct European bias with Sport Auto. After all American muscle cars priced at half cost would make the Euro cars look bad.

    The sad thing is they need to realize that buyers in this class expect the very best. No one feels good when their 911 gets dusted by a Mitsubishi. The product loyalty from some of you is exactly why Porsche will not give us what we want NOW. But instead they are allowed to make tiny mods and continue to sell a dated car.

    Do you realize that as a group this entire board as well as other Porsche boards could really put pressure on Porsche's marketing/R&D (they are the same department)



    Kinda depends what you want in your sportscars....right?

    If you're largely doing stoplight drag races w/ricers/meatheads on straight roads in FL/TX/LA Basin/Chicago, etc and are resource-constrained....go for Z06 or whatever else seems to win these "events" and makes you happy....

    If steering precision&feel/chassis balance&traction/brake pedal feel&fade resistance/straight-line hp&torque/safety structures&airbag systems/upscale interior/upscale dealer network, etc are larger priorities, I'd argue 996TTS/997TT are screaming bargains and winners (even ignoring price) vs any/all competitors, incl 430/Gallardo, etc.

    Having owned and vigorously driven 996TTS vs 430 vs Gallardo in various settings, I always come away amazed how complete a package the aging 996TTS is.....no car today seems to offer its combo of performance/feel/safety/reliability/comfort ...all at a fairly cheap price..

    I'm looking forward to getting first 997TT from my dealer; will use it as a 15K mi/yr daily commuter car and wkend toy for mtn twisties....and plan to get a new 997TT every yr until I drive a car that beats the 997TT in each critical facet of sportscar performance/safety attributes......

    430 is a worthy competitor to 996TTS/997TT in performance and feel, but has essentially zero modern safety systems, making risk/reward balance unacceptable to me for daily use; Gallardo has horrific ground clearance and unremarkable steering feel and weak brakes vs P/F......

    Closely examine and drive each of the alleged competitors (don't just magazine race them w/0-60/N-ring times); I suspect those who actually drive these cars and live w/them for daily use and for wkend twisties best appreciate how balanced the excellence of 996TTS/997TT is....

    Jan 26, 2006 6:49:25 AM

    terrence
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Talking of the Corvette Z06 and the 997 Turbo...

    Road and Track did a track test and the Z06 was faster than a Noble M400 on a twisty slow track. The driver said that on a fast track, the Z06 would "destroy" the Noble. How does the Noble do at the Ring?

    Jan 26, 2006 6:55:17 AM

    terrence
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    Reply to: nberry

    Re: Talking of the Corvette Z06 and the 997 Turbo...

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    Ron (Houston) said:
    Here is this article but not with Porsche comparison wise.

    http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=2904&print_page=y



    Interesting article. So the Z06 is slightly faster than the Viper ST-10. Not bad. But the Viper did a 8:13 time on the Nordschleife. I bet that the Corvette Z06 can't get below 7:52 on the Nordschleife, I'd even say 7:55 is more realistic. The Z06 has impressive engine figures, it has an impressive weight figure and it definetely has an impressive weight to power ratio.

    BUT I ask again: the Z06 is now available for a few months in the US. Is there ANY trustable TRACK test with that car, especially compared to the Ford GT (which would make sense) or even the C6 (non-Z) Vette?



    Why are times reported by Sportauto accurate and reliable and all others not? Do not forget the old Z06 beat the 996TT with Ron Fellows driving the Z06 and Harley Haywood driving the TT. The new Z06 has 100 more hp and is lighter. The new 997TT has 60hp more and is heavier.

    Also why do you doubt the new Z06 time? Is Porsche the only car that is allowed to perform on the Ring?



    Thank you. I already ordered my 997TT launch car, hopefully getting it in July. I have no reason to be bias either way. I have a 2006 Z06 in my garage since last October and I think it is a great car. It is a perfect daily driver with more toys and amenities than any Mercedes but is faster than my previous Stage 2 or Stage 3 996TT's. I hope the 997TT will be all that we are hoping it to be, and I think it will.

    Jan 26, 2006 8:05:49 AM

    MKSGRM
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Talking of the Corvette Z06 and the 997 Turbo...

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Why are times reported by Sportauto accurate and reliable and all others not? Do not forget the old Z06 beat the 996TT with Ron Fellows driving the Z06 and Harley Haywood driving the TT. The new Z06 has 100 more hp and is lighter. The new 997TT has 60hp more and is heavier.

    Also why do you doubt the new Z06 time? Is Porsche the only car that is allowed to perform on the Ring?



    The answer is pretty simple, Nick:

    1. you can't compare performance of two different cars with two different drivers sitting in each of them, this is pure BS.
    2. I didn't see ANY trustable Nordschleife test figure yet for the Z06, sorry. There is the possibility to get an "official" time taken, apparently no Z06 driver had this done yet.
    3. SPORT AUTO is the most trusted sportscar magazine among enthusiasts over here and for a reason. They are actually the only car magazine who are doing the Supertest, a well defined track test with ONE single driver, Horst v. Saurma. He is a very respected driver, he is very talented because he can adapt to different cars and what is best: he isn't focused on one single brand only. Of course there are enough people who don't trust his tests, especially Ferrari drivers.
    4. if the old and new Vettes are that good, I wonder why no german car magazine gets them for testing on the track.

    Nick, you don't want to understand: our co-editor CR owns a Ferrari F430 Spider too as you know very well. But ask him what he drives on the track or when he needs ultimate performance. Right...996 Turbo. Of course there is another reason for that but in the end, he agrees that the Ferrari is for the heart and soul, the Porsche for performance (although I don't agree here, I think he gets goose bumps too when driving his Turbo).



    May I add one additional fact: the C6 was indeed available for a sportauto test.

    In this test the car failed to achieve the GM claimed lap time of below 8 minutes by ca. 15 seconds... BTW: the source of the below 8 minutes time of the C6 and the source of the Z06 rumour are one and the same GM person That says a lot about GM's credibility

    Jan 26, 2006 9:00:27 AM

    Boyko23 Offline
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    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: Talking of the Corvette Z06 and the 997 Turbo...

    I think that all of you will calm down when 997 tt puts its time on the Ring...
    Z06 is a great car, actualy I own C6, but as I have no chances agains the Carrera S, I think that it will not be much different with the Turbo/Z06... Simply the Vette has so big and heavy engine at the front and this is not a good thing against the Turbo...
    About the dynoed Z06's - for me personally a dyno test is the easiest way to make a speculation and put as much powers as you want

    Jan 26, 2006 9:14:55 AM

    WW
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    Re: Talking of the Corvette Z06 and the 997 Turbo...

    It's amazing that most of you Z06 detractors have never even seen one in person much less drive one. Open your mind.

    For the longest times, there was no product offered by Detroit that will challenge the 911 series. But time has cuaght up. First the Vipers out gun it in a straight line by a bunch. Now the C6Z06 is gonna kick Porsche's @ss all over any type of tracks. You European need to drive both before you condamn the new Z06. There are plenty folks here in teh US who have driven both. As a matter of facts, quite a few own both 996TT and the new Z06. The performance levels on both are night and day. The 997TT will have to be a lot better than its predecessor to compete.

    As for doubting the 7:42.99 ring time for the Z06. You guys are in total denial. I guess you can always harpe on the feel, the finish, the prestige part of the equation. I will just check the stop watch and wave good bye to you all.

    Jan 26, 2006 9:34:53 AM

    WW
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    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: Talking of the Corvette Z06 and the 997 Turbo...

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:

    May I add one additional fact: the C6 was indeed available for a sportauto test.

    In this test the car failed to achieve the GM claimed lap time of below 8 minutes by ca. 15 seconds... BTW: the source of the below 8 minutes time of the C6 and the source of the Z06 rumour are one and the same GM person That says a lot about GM's credibility

    Why do you need to wait for GM to offer you a test car? Why can't SportAuto people go to the dealer and rent one and take it to the ring? There is quite a few Z06's in Europe. Why can't you locate one find out what it can do?

    The only way to settle this is to have one tested. Speculation get us nowhere.

    Also, if you drive one type of car(911's) most of the times and have never driven another car(Corvettes), wouldn't it be fair to assume that you will have a better run at the Ring in the familar car than the other? In the same token, a driver(professional racer) who is familar and who has driven a similar setup (C6R) in LeMan's, should definitely have a better chance to produce a better time than a want-to-be auto magazine driver.

    You don't trust the times GM put out. But most people save for Porsche lovers don't trust those times the Sportauto people put out either. Go ask the Ferrari crowd.

    If anything, I would trust Top Gear in Britain before I trust the idiots at Sportauto.

    Jan 26, 2006 9:42:25 AM

    Crash
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    Reply to: WW

    Re: Talking of the Corvette Z06 and the 997 Turbo...

    Quote:
    WW said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:

    May I add one additional fact: the C6 was indeed available for a sportauto test.

    In this test the car failed to achieve the GM claimed lap time of below 8 minutes by ca. 15 seconds... BTW: the source of the below 8 minutes time of the C6 and the source of the Z06 rumour are one and the same GM person That says a lot about GM's credibility

    Why do you need to wait for GM to offer you a test car? Why can't SportAuto people go to the dealer and rent one and take it to the ring? There is quite a few Z06's in Europe. Why can't you locate one find out what it can do?

    The only way to settle this is to have one tested. Speculation get us nowhere.

    Also, if you drive one type of car(911's) most of the times and have never driven another car(Corvettes), wouldn't it be fair to assume that you will have a better run at the Ring in the familar car than the other? In the same token, a driver(professional racer) who is familar and who has driven a similar setup (C6R) in LeMan's, should definitely have a better chance to produce a better time than a want-to-be auto magazine driver.

    You don't trust the times GM put out. But most people save for Porsche lovers don't trust those times the Sportauto people put out either. Go ask the Ferrari crowd.

    If anything, I would trust Top Gear in Britain before I trust the idiots at Sportauto.



    Calling SportAuto idiots tells a lot about your bias.
    First off, the Vette is a plasticky POS as far as I'm concerned.
    Second, the Viper does not outgun the Turbo on the straights (they are about equal).
    Third, the Vette does not kick the Turbo's ass in the corners.
    Fourth, there has been NO EVIDENCE of the claimed 7:42.9 time.
    Fifth, I'm no Porsche zombie and would LOVE the Corvette to truly turn out as all that it's been hyped out to be (competition is only good for us consumers in the end). The problem is, there has been no official confirmation yet, so until I see the SportAuto time, I won't believe it. If it does turn out the way Dave Hill claims, then good for GM, good for us consumers and good for Porsche, because it will force them to make more improvements.
    Sixth, welcome to the forums!

    Jan 26, 2006 9:43:01 AM

    Boyko23 Offline
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    Reply to: WW

    Re: Talking of the Corvette Z06 and the 997 Turbo...

    Quote:
    WW said:
    It's amazing that most of you Z06 detractors have never even seen one in person much less drive one. Open your mind.

    For the longest times, there was no product offered by Detroit that will challenge the 911 series. But time has cuaght up. First the Vipers out gun it in a straight line by a bunch. Now the C6Z06 is gonna kick Porsche's @ss all over any type of tracks. You European need to drive both before you condamn the new Z06. There are plenty folks here in teh US who have driven both. As a matter of facts, quite a few own both 996TT and the new Z06. The performance levels on both are night and day. The 997TT will have to be a lot better than its predecessor to compete.

    As for doubting the 7:42.99 ring time for the Z06. You guys are in total denial. I guess you can always harpe on the feel, the finish, the prestige part of the equation. I will just check the stop watch and wave good bye to you all.


    I wrote that I have a C6 and what do you think - am I please to be beaten everywhere from a CS? I don't know why having much Detroit power under the hood does not help me at all
    I think that you have to wait for real track times and i am sure that you will be very silent then As ever before
    For you (americans) straight line is everything. Even the tracks in US are almost 80% straight lines, so the cars are made for straight lines... Now Chevy changed some of the things towards better and C6 and Z06 are great cars especialy for the money, but you have nothing to proof the phenomenal performance promised from Detroit!
    On the other hand Porsche as ever will put its time on the Ring as soon as the car is launched. So you just have to wait a little bit

    Jan 26, 2006 10:01:46 AM

    guy2
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    Reply to: Boyko23

    Re: Talking of the Corvette Z06 and the 997 Turbo...

    i "heard" that the 997TT will do the ring in 7:48

    Jan 26, 2006 10:23:54 AM

    KresoF1
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    Re: Talking of the Corvette Z06 and the 997 Turbo...

    Huh! Is this becoming a war between Porsche fans and other sports car fans? I hope not!
    I agree fully with RC regarding Sport Auto objectivity... Aren't you guys forgetting that Aston Martin V8 Vantage beat 997S(-20mm/LSD,PCCB) around Nordschleife? Aston time was 8.03min(yes, with P Zero Corsas!) and 997S was 8.05min. Aston marketing stuff was probably drunk all day after that super test was published!
    So, to call v.Saurma Porschefill is pretty stupid IMO!
    Of course 997S with Corsas will beat Aston but, so what!
    Z06 is very,very fast car indeed! But, since C6 time was 8.15min is it realistic to expect something like 7.42min?? I do not think so! Rumor is that Z06 Super test will be published in few mnths so, we will see...
    One last thing-I respect Vettes very much and IMO they offer allmost unbeatable price/performance ratio!

    Jan 26, 2006 12:06:51 PM

    RCA
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    Reply to: WW

    Re: Talking of the Corvette Z06 and the 997 Turbo...

    Quote:
    WW said:
    It's amazing that most of you Z06 detractors have never even seen one in person much less drive one. Open your mind.

    For the longest times, there was no product offered by Detroit that will challenge the 911 series. But time has cuaght up. First the Vipers out gun it in a straight line by a bunch. Now the C6Z06 is gonna kick Porsche's @ss all over any type of tracks. You European need to drive both before you condamn the new Z06. There are plenty folks here in teh US who have driven both. As a matter of facts, quite a few own both 996TT and the new Z06. The performance levels on both are night and day. The 997TT will have to be a lot better than its predecessor to compete.

    As for doubting the 7:42.99 ring time for the Z06. You guys are in total denial. I guess you can always harpe on the feel, the finish, the prestige part of the equation. I will just check the stop watch and wave good bye to you all.



    I'm very open minded, this is why I give the Z06 the credit of the doubt. I want to see OFFICIALLY confirmed (by independent sources) track times but I can't find any, sorry. So before you're waving a 997 Turbo good-bye, you should give the 997 Turbo the credit of doubt too. Unless you're not THAT open minded as you may think.

    And there is also a very nice saying over here in Germany which has proved to be valid almost all my life: you're always getting what you're paying for. No wonder that the US is the paradise for fishy dealers, questionable products, etc. because some people still want to believe in Santa.

    Jan 26, 2006 12:14:06 PM

    RCA
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: Talking of the Corvette Z06 and the 997 Turbo...

    Quote:
    Branimir said:
    Huh! Is this becoming a war between Porsche fans and other sports car fans? I hope not!
    I agree fully with RC regarding Sport Auto objectivity... Aren't you guys forgetting that Aston Martin V8 Vantage beat 997S(-20mm/LSD,PCCB) around Nordschleife? Aston time was 8.03min(yes, with P Zero Corsas!) and 997S was 8.05min. Aston marketing stuff was probably drunk all day after that super test was published!



    AM didn't celebrate since the Vantage was driving on semi-slicks. On the Nordschleife, semi-slicks can give you around 4-6 seconds advantage over street tires. This is A LOT.

    And SPORT AUTO is NOT biased towards certain products, this is BS. The only reason why they always test THAT many Porsche models is simple: they get the cars for testing. I heard that it took Sport Auto a lot of convincing and talking to get a F430 for the Supertest. And I'm still missing the Enzo supertest. The Dodge Viper didn't impress too much on the Nordschleife but it had a very nice straight line performance. The C06 didn't impress either, so why would the Z06 be THAT much better? I don't know, I'm just asking. I WANT to see OFFICIAL test figures but I can't find any, not even from a respected US car magazine. So why should I trust all these fishy statements, that the Corvette is THAT fast? I don't get it. Or maybe...maybe...I get it: people who think they made a bargain by buying a Z06 want to believe in it. So be it...until they have to learn the hard way that nothing in life is free. OR...that I'm wrong. It remains to be seen but I've seen and driven too many cars in my life to believe in miracles.

    Jan 26, 2006 12:33:09 PM

    KresoF1
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Talking of the Corvette Z06 and the 997 Turbo...

    RC, I agree with you! Vette Z06 is very fast on straight line but, around Nordschleife?? My bet is time around 8.05-8.00min, depending on temperature,etc. Car to beat is Gallardo! Gallardo with sport setup achived 1.11,8min around Hockenheim and 7.52min around Nordchleife-if 997tt will be faster then that-then Porsche made something truly special... But, do not forgett M3CSL time(yes, with semi-slicks) around Nordschleife 7.50min!!
    I personally will enjoy my 997S(X51,PCCB,-20mm/LSD) very much from April 2006!

    Jan 26, 2006 12:40:42 PM

    SoCalHoosier
    Veteran
    SoCalHoosier
    Loc: California , United States
    Posts: 896, Gallery
    Registered on: Jun 13, 2003
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Talking of the Corvette Z06 and the 997 Turbo...

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    Branimir said:
    Huh! Is this becoming a war between Porsche fans and other sports car fans? I hope not!
    I agree fully with RC regarding Sport Auto objectivity... Aren't you guys forgetting that Aston Martin V8 Vantage beat 997S(-20mm/LSD,PCCB) around Nordschleife? Aston time was 8.03min(yes, with P Zero Corsas!) and 997S was 8.05min. Aston marketing stuff was probably drunk all day after that super test was published!



    AM didn't celebrate since the Vantage was driving on semi-slicks. On the Nordschleife, semi-slicks can give you around 4-6 seconds advantage over street tires. This is A LOT.

    And SPORT AUTO is NOT biased towards certain products, this is BS. The only reason why they always test THAT many Porsche models is simple: they get the cars for testing. I heard that it took Sport Auto a lot of convincing and talking to get a F430 for the Supertest. And I'm still missing the Enzo supertest. The Dodge Viper didn't impress too much on the Nordschleife but it had a very nice straight line performance. The C06 didn't impress either, so why would the Z06 be THAT much better? I don't know, I'm just asking. I WANT to see OFFICIAL test figures but I can't find any, not even from a respected US car magazine. So why should I trust all these fishy statements, that the Corvette is THAT fast? I don't get it. Or maybe...maybe...I get it: people who think they made a bargain by buying a Z06 want to believe in it. So be it...until they have to learn the hard way that nothing in life is free. OR...that I'm wrong. It remains to be seen but I've seen and driven too many cars in my life to believe in miracles.



    RC... thank you for this site BTW... your info gathering is invaluable.
    That being said I'm not sure why you and others are having such a hard time comprehending this... it's not that some of us would rather buy a Z06 than a 997TT... rather we would like to see that the 997TT be the top of its class regardless of price like it once was. So far from the specs I can't see how that would be possible and I'm sure if you actually look at it non-partially you will agree. There is way too much competition for Porsche compared to years back. They keep limiting each rendition so they can offer up a higher priced model (total BS). If you keep jumping up and down patting them on the back... they will not change but rather keep this trend going. If you love Porsche then you need to be able to criticize/compare rather than accept the status quo. The 993 TT was the king of the hill at one time. Straight line and curves. Could we say that about the 996 TT? Now the competition is getting deeper and more aggressive yet it seems Porsche is on their own little planet.

    BTW I have been lucky enough to participate in Porsche's marketing research for model designs ranging from the 993/996/Cayman/Panamera as well as the future nav system that will be incorporated into the next PCM system. Trust me I give them my two cents!!!

    Jan 26, 2006 1:26:16 PM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
    Posts: 59592, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
    Reply to: SoCalHoosier

    Re: Talking of the Corvette Z06 and the 997 Turbo...

    Quote:
    SoCalHoosier said:
    rather we would like to see that the 997TT be the top of its class regardless of price like it once was



    I would LOVE to have 600 HP and a 9 seconds performance from 0-125 mph, no doubt about it. But Porsche has to think about future products too. When the 993 Turbo showed up, there was almost no competition for this car. This has changed a lot, even manufacturers like BMW and Mercedes come up with HP monsters, making it pretty difficult for Porsche to create a product which is by far superior. In my opinion, Porsche should have built a 997 Turbo with 490 and a 997 Turbo S with 530 HP from the start, at the same time. They should have also reduce weight by 100 kg and not only by 50 kg. This would have given Porsche a true performance advantage for the next two to three years to come.

    BUT: since the 997 Turbo isn't out on the market yet and since nobody has done a real performance review yet, we should wait with our assumptions. Also don't forget one thing: the 997 Turbo may have 473/480 HP on the paper "only" but a simple motronic software upgrade can add another 50 horses very easily (not easy with the Z06, the version on this picture has 547 HP, modified by the german tuner GEIGER in Munich...as you can see, we have the Z06 here too ) and I'm also waiting to see what impact the "overboost" function has on the performance of the 997 Turbo. Adding 60 Nm for 10 seconds could also mean adding 5-10% of power for the same amount of time. Making the 997 Turbo actually a car with over 500 HP. Let's wait for the first reviews of the 997 Turbo, I'm still confident that our expectations will be met, at least the minimum expecations.

    Jan 26, 2006 3:41:13 PM

    Walter
    Pilot
    Walter
    Loc:
    Posts: 453, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 20, 2006
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Talking of the Corvette Z06 and the 997 Turbo...

    The Ford GT should be faster than the Z06 around the Nurburgring.Sport Auto tested the C6's aerodynamics and it wasn't very good.It had 54kg lift(!!) on the front and 28kg lift at the rear.The Ford GT had 44kg downforce on the front and 2kg lift at the rear.I'm not saying that the Z06 will have the same aerodynamics as the C6 but there is a huge gap between the C6 and the Ford GT aerodynamicaly.
    For me,aerodynamics plays a huge role on the Nurburgring because speeds of 200km/h+ in corners are not so rare.I think aerodynamics is more important than hp and weight.

    I'm sure that the 7:42,9 is just for publicity.With the financial difficulties that GM has,it wouldn't be sptupid to do a time attack with indepenadant journalists as witnesses,to show that it really is that good.Why?Because if the Z06 is capable of doing that lap time,GM will sell more cars(i don't mean more Z06,but also other models).This is called "prestige".People will think that if the Z06 is good the other models must be good too.

    Also,about Sport Auto being biased towards Porsche:the CSL was just 3 seconds slower than the GT3 RS.A 3-series...

    Some people here were speaking of facts but what kind of facts has GM provided?Donkervoort and Radical have videos of their cars running on the Nurburgring and the track data was published on Sport Auto.

    Jan 26, 2006 4:11:43 PM

    nberry Offline
    Rennteam VIP
    nberry
    Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States
    Posts: 13737, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 11, 2002
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Talking of the Corvette Z06 and the 997 Turbo...

    My problem is why are times posted by Van Sarma "OFFICIAL" and times posted by another source "UNOFFICIAL". Please correct me if I am wrong but wasn't Van Sarma at one time a Porsche factory driver? If so, should we not consider this when determining objectivity?

    Jan 26, 2006 4:21:51 PM

    Ron (Houston)M
    Rennteam Moderator
    Ron (Houston)
    Loc: Houston, TX , United States
    Posts: 8812, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 10, 2002
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Talking of the Corvette Z06 and the 997 Turbo...

    Few Z06 ring shots

    Jan 26, 2006 4:33:11 PM

    CFM
    Rennteam Moderator
    CF
    Loc: Florida , United States
    Posts: 1113, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 30, 2003
    Reply to: nberry

    Re: Talking of the Corvette Z06 and the 997 Turbo...

    What if I were to go out and buy a Z06 based on marketing made by Corvette stating that the car can lap the Ring in 7.42,9 and later find out that this statement was completely false.

    If the car eventually with a race car driver of Corvette's choice weren't able to reproduce that laptime or even get close, let's say 7.58-8.05 then what

    I would like to sue them for false marketing.

    You can't make claims as a manufacturer and later on not be able to back them up in independent tests.

    What if they stated that the car had a topspeed of 225 MPH or that the car had 700 HP
     
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