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    Re: cayman s road test

    Thanks for the scans, dreamcar.

    10 seconds behind on a 1:16 lap is ENORMOUS. 4 seconds behind on a 1:09 wet lap is also pretty big, although a wet lap time is arguably less significant than a dry one. I don't see how Autocar can reconcile that enormous difference with the claim that the "Cayman S is sensational around our GT circuit". Let's be honest with ourselves, lap times aren't everything, but a sports car must perform, and a vehicle that turns in bad lap times isn't a good sports car.

    I test drove the Cayman S back-to-back with a 997 S yesterday and didn't see what all the fuss was about. Reading that Autocar rave, seeing those bad lap times, and considering my own admittedly limited experience in the Cayman S makes me wonder what is going on over at Autocar.

    Re: cayman s road test

    Quote:
    hatchback said:
    Thanks for the scans, dreamcar.

    10 seconds behind on a 1:16 lap is ENORMOUS. 4 seconds behind on a 1:09 wet lap is also pretty big, although a wet lap time is arguably less significant than a dry one. I don't see how Autocar can reconcile that enormous difference with the claim that the "Cayman S is sensational around our GT circuit". Let's be honest with ourselves, lap times aren't everything, but a sports car must perform, and a vehicle that turns in bad lap times isn't a good sports car.

    I test drove the Cayman S back-to-back with a 997 S yesterday and didn't see what all the fuss was about. Reading that Autocar rave, seeing those bad lap times, and considering my own admittedly limited experience in the Cayman S makes me wonder what is going on over at Autocar.



    would love to hear you elaborate on your back-to-back test drive "hatchback"... i'm sensing that you were unimpressed with the cayman? why?
    thanks.

    Re: cayman s road test

    Quote:
    mateoche said:
    would love to hear you elaborate on your back-to-back test drive "hatchback"... i'm sensing that you were unimpressed with the cayman? why?
    thanks.



    I approached the Cayman S test drive with high expectations. Midengined Porsche. Rave reviews. 911 Killer. This has got to be good!

    First disappointment was the hatchback. I appreciate a good hatchback configuration for its storage capacity and flexibility. The Cayman rear shelf has two sections. The first section is immediately behind the seats, and is level with the driver's neck. It has a mesh cargo net on top, but I don't think the net could realistically fit anything bigger or heavier than a sweater, and anything you put there would decrease your rearward visibility. The second section is at the rear of the car, and it is slightly deeper. I didn't measure it, but it seemed roughly a foot deeper than the first section. My immediate thought was that anything stored in either section of the rear shelf would fly out and decapitate the driver and passenger in a frontal collision. (Did anyone else see the crash test on Fifth Gear a few seasons back?) There is no way I would store anything in the Cayman hatchback, the safety risk is considerable.

    Next took it for a drive on highway and local roads. Temperature was below freezing, tires were cold, and the roads were covered with salt. Some sections still had some snow and ice, and others had standing water. Traffic was moderate. Passed one speed trap. I was asked to limit revs to 5k and the salesman rode with me, so this was more of a real-world drivability test than a joy ride or a hot lap.

    Pedals are well positioned for heel-toe. As far as I could tell, the Cayman drives and handles fine. Suspension was comfortable over bad roads, no crashing. I could feel about 50% of the road -- big changes but not the little ones. It is noisy but not with the kind of car noise that I like to hear. Nothing about it made me smile or think this is a great or special car. It has big blind spots to the sides. The cabin has plenty of headroom, but I felt closed in and was relieved to exit the cabin when the test ride was over. During the drive, I couldn't help thinking, this would be more fun (but less comfortable) in an Elise.

    Next was the 997S. Pedals were comparable, and rear sideways visibility was better. Cabin felt airier. Tires were colder and had less grip; this car definitely needs winter tires in colder climates. The dashboard creaked and groaned. Overall ergonomics were better. I felt more confident driving it in poor road conditions and on limited visibility roads. At the end of the drive, I felt relaxed and would have gladly driven it some more.

    I felt more self-conscious in the Cayman than in the 911. The Cayman feels to me like a vanity piece, a self-indulgence, a car that you get for yourself alone. You can't carry much of anything in it, you can't run most errands in it, and I wouldn't want to take it on long-distance trip due to excess noise and insufficient storage. You can only take it to work if you don't have to drive your coworkers anywhere. Nor can you take your family with you in it. Among sports cars it offers more comfort and style than raw performance, so you are choosing solitary sporting comfort and style over the solitary sporting performance of the CGT/GT2/GT3/Z06/Elise or the shared comfort and performance of a 997S or even an M5.

    That's my entirely personal reaction to the Cayman S. Your reaction will be different, and the best way to find out what you think of the Cayman S is to forget the reviews and drive the car yourself in a way that is realistic for you. I'm not a reviewer, just looking for a fun car, and yesterday I realized that the Cayman S isn't for me. I'd rather have the everyday usability of a 997, or the raw performance of a GT2/GT3/Z06, or the driving involvement of an Elise.

    Re: cayman s road test

    thanks very much hatchback!!! appreciate it! i live in west los angeles (santa monica) and sees oodles of 997's but have yet to see a cayman -- though i saw one at a dealer in november or early december (can't remember).

    would love to hear from others who have driven both.

    Re: cayman s road test

    It's a real pity you couldn't go past 5k's as I would have reckon that's where the car shines best. In Melbourne where there is only one OPC dealer, the salesman never sits with you... you're all alone for a few blissful hours or a day if you organise in advance. we get a chance to really "push" the car, in fact about a month ago a 997S I believe was being repaired at the panel-shop. it's not an infrequent event.

    AUTOCAR CORRECTION!!

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    I originally thought the Cayman was 10s slower on the track than 997S (confused by the British nomeclature), but it's only 4sec slower. Still alot, but not so bad...



    This week's Autocar has published a correction to last week's test....

    Re: AUTOCAR CORRECTION!!

    Quote:
    dreamcar said:
    Quote:
    Grant said:
    I originally thought the Cayman was 10s slower on the track than 997S (confused by the British nomeclature), but it's only 4sec slower. Still alot, but not so bad...



    This week's Autocar has published a correction to last week's test....



    So Cayman S is 0.1 second slower that 997S in dry, but 4 seconds slower in wet. Thanks for update, and let the debators chime in, as if that will sway what people will actually choose to buy.

    Re: AUTOCAR CORRECTION!!

    That's great to hear! 10s really seemed to be outside the reasonable area!

    Re: AUTOCAR CORRECTION!!

    It's nice to see the Cayman do so well against the much higher HP and priced 997S, but then again I really don't care that much about track times in general. I bought the Cayman for its looks, structure, and all out fun to drive factor. The above just reinforces that maybe the Cayman isn't so high priced compared to the 911. It would have been nice to see a Boxster in the test also....would have been really interesting then.

    Re: AUTOCAR CORRECTION!!

    Sounds like the track conditions were even worse for the Cayman too (greasy). I wonder which suspension each car was running?

    Re: AUTOCAR CORRECTION!!

    The Cayman was on PASM according to the road test details. One can be reasonably certain that the 997S was too since PASM comes as standard and the only option is lowered sports suspension and I don't recall seeing a UK road test of that configuration.

    Re: AUTOCAR CORRECTION!!

    Quote:
    KenH said:
    The Cayman was on PASM according to the road test details. One can be reasonably certain that the 997S was too since PASM comes as standard and the only option is lowered sports suspension and I don't recall seeing a UK road test of that configuration.


    Yeah, if the Cayman with PASM was within 0.1s of a 997S with -20mm and LSD, then that would be more than impressive...

    Re: AUTOCAR CORRECTION!!

    Grant, both 997S and Cayman S were with PASM in Autocar's tests. As I said in my post german Sport Auto tested Cayman S also with PASM but, 997S with -20mm/LSD option and it was a lot faster around Hockenheim then Cayman... True, 997S with PASM is not faster then Cayman S(PASM) around Hockenheim! Other thing-base 997 with -20mm/LSD and 19" options is faster then Cayman S(PASM) around Hockenheim! So, what then? Also, please note that Boxster S was only 0.2s(!!) slower then Cayman S around Hockenheim-both cars were with PASM.

    Re: AUTOCAR CORRECTION!!

    The bottom line seems to be that with a certain spec the 997, Cayman S and Boxster S have the same performance. I consider .1 or .2 differences to be within the range of different instruments, different drivers, different weather, tire/brake condition, etc.

    At the same time, as it should be for the price, the 997 can be equipped to be faster than the other two. I don't like to see so much controversy about this on all the boards. People have really forgotten that we are all sports car enthusiasts, not everyone wants to have the same experience, that's why there are different models to choose from.

    Re: AUTOCAR CORRECTION!!

    Quote:
    Seth said:
    The bottom line seems to be that with a certain spec the 997, Cayman S and Boxster S have the same performance. I consider .1 or .2 differences to be within the range of different instruments, different drivers, different weather, tire/brake condition, etc.

    At the same time, as it should be for the price, the 997 can be equipped to be faster than the other two. I don't like to see so much controversy about this on all the boards. People have really forgotten that we are all sports car enthusiasts, not everyone wants to have the same experience, that's why there are different models to choose from.


    Well said

    Re: AUTOCAR CORRECTION!!

    Quote:
    Seth said:
    People have really forgotten that we are all sports car enthusiasts, not everyone wants to have the same experience, that's why there are different models to choose from.



    Thanks Seth.

    April Excellence magazine reports on their track test of the Cayman S at Barber Motorsports Park. They say what they like and give their complaints. Some of my favorite comments were in the section call "second take" by Gerry Burger. Here is a sample:

    "- predictability and balance are what make a car easy to drive on track. Unfortunately, reserve went out the window almost immediately, because the new Cayman S practically redefines both terms. ---

    Some say the Cayman could handle more motor. Maybe it could, but the 3.4 its got now is silky smooth with a remarkable power-band. In my view, the six-speed gearbox has perfect gearing, too. Will a Cayman S rocket you down straights like a 996 Turbo? No, but it provides plenty of top-end power to be fast on the straights with enough low-end grunt to get through the turns quickly. Running to redline brings a steady stream of power - and a larger-than-life smile. If you find more satisfaction in driving around other cars than simply powering past them, the Cayman will be your kind of track-day toy. With a competent driver, I suspect a Cayman S will pass all but the fastest Porsches at club track-days.

    --- it's hard to believe just how good this car really is. The Cayman may share its platform with the Boxster, but the structure's additional rigidity makes it a superior drive. Then there's the 295-hp flat six, fine standard brakes, and fantastic chassis tuning. Yes, the equipment is making you look good. But this is still a Porsche that begs to be driven well - and rewards accordingly.

    And, when that happens, the Cayman S is going to return dividends few cars costing less than $100,000 ever will."

    Re: AUTOCAR CORRECTION!!

    In one part of the autocar test text it says something along the lines of, "the BMW M3 is faster", but it isn't faster in a straight line from 0-125 the Caymans quicker just, the M3 pips it to 60 though.

    Re: AUTOCAR CORRECTION!!

    Again, the E46 M3 was consistently tested at 0 to 60 between 4.8 and 5.0. Most actual tests of the Cayman S have been 4.8 (versus Porsche claim of 5.1). Seems like a wash to me, or maybe slight advantage Cayman S. Obviously 0 to 60 is but one measure. M3 is great, but Cayman S is a superior performance car from most measures, particularly my personal A / B comparison (granted I have an M3 convertible).

    Botton line, two great cars with somewhat different mission (M3 is much more practical, Cayman S much more focused handling machine, less HP but lighter).

    Re: AUTOCAR CORRECTION!!

    According to this week's Autocar the Z4 M Coupe will be "around Pounds38,000, seriously undercutting the Pounds43k Cayman S".
    Of course these are the same people that told us that the Cayman was going to be under Pounds30k. It made a good story.
    Given that the M3 starts at Pounds42,405 and the Z4-M Roadster starts at Pounds42,750 I think it is somewhat unlikely that the Z4 M Coupe will be under Pounds42,000 in the UK. BMW GB are not noted for their generosity.
    I predict the coupe will exactly the same price as the roadster. I seem to recall that is exactly what happened in the UK with the Z3 equivalents.

     
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