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Re: The Cayman Rocks!!
Quote:
throt said:
How can a 911 be called an 911 with the engine in the middle ?? ,, it cant can it ..
throt..
Agreed - and I don't think Porsche would do it.
Last time they tried to launch a logical successor it was called 928. And it was a great car (like the Cayman surely is).
Didn't last though. And the implication of that is...
Jan 8, 2006 10:41:16 PM
- Silver Bullet
- Veteran
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- Loc: Canada
- Posts: 1126, Gallery
- Registered on: Nov 24, 2004
- Reply to: KenH
Re: The Cayman Rocks!!
Quote:
KenH said:
"IMO, they strategically decided to back off of it a bit. The Caymanish concept could be the answer to the perfect P/sports car but they obviously don't want to cannibalize the 911. Once again they find themselves restricted by the heritage of the 911, IMO. Time will tell if P decides to break loose of the 911, rear engine bond. Somehow I doubt it. The only thing that will change it is if financially it does not make sense to keep the rear engine thing going but that would represent a huge departure."
I have now heard from Porsche sources on two continents that:
1. The next 911 will look quite different from all 911s that have gone before, with some Carrera GT visual characteristics.
2. The next 911 will be mid-engined.
3. The new design was signed off about 4 months ago.
Of course they could all be wrong but I rather think that the current layout and shape is due for something more than another evolutionary change.
It will take some time before any of this can be confirmed or denied - but just remember this when it is.
Like the convenient "spypics" of P-cars that end up here and elsewhere, the above is yet another example of clever "behind the scenes" PAG marketing, this time to stir up excitement over the newly released mid engined Porsche. Either that or it's just pure BS, and we all know how much of that there is floating around.
Anyone who thinks Porsche will make the 911 mid-engined has lost their mind.
Jan 8, 2006 11:30:52 PM
- schao
- Co-Pilot
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- Loc: CT, USA
- Posts: 185, Gallery
- Registered on: Jul 12, 2005
- Reply to: Silver Bullet
Re: The Cayman Rocks!!
Quote:
Silver Bullet said:Quote:
KenH said:
"IMO, they strategically decided to back off of it a bit. The Caymanish concept could be the answer to the perfect P/sports car but they obviously don't want to cannibalize the 911. Once again they find themselves restricted by the heritage of the 911, IMO. Time will tell if P decides to break loose of the 911, rear engine bond. Somehow I doubt it. The only thing that will change it is if financially it does not make sense to keep the rear engine thing going but that would represent a huge departure."
I have now heard from Porsche sources on two continents that:
1. The next 911 will look quite different from all 911s that have gone before, with some Carrera GT visual characteristics.
2. The next 911 will be mid-engined.
3. The new design was signed off about 4 months ago.
Of course they could all be wrong but I rather think that the current layout and shape is due for something more than another evolutionary change.
It will take some time before any of this can be confirmed or denied - but just remember this when it is.
Like the convenient "spypics" of P-cars that end up here and elsewhere, the above is yet another example of clever "behind the scenes" PAG marketing, this time to stir up excitement over the newly released mid engined Porsche. Either that or it's just pure BS, and we all know how much of that there is floating around.
Anyone who thinks Porsche will make the 911 mid-engined has lost their mind.
It's as crazy as Porsche dropping racing activities to focus on producing an SUV, or buying a 20% stake in Volkswagen, or charging more for a hardtop Boxster, or developing a hybrid-drive system? I've been saving my conversation with Dr. W at the Frankfurt autoshow last fall regarding the Cayman for a future date. What I will say now, and what I think all of us know inplicitly, but don't always acknowledge explicitely, is that while we customers are focused on the current and immediately upcoming models, senior management is focused on products two or more generations down the road. In the case of the Cayman, it appears that development work began in 2000, and the supervisory board gave final approval only in spring 2005. And I don't see any reason Porsche will restrict the Cayman to only two models (base and "S") when there will be four for the Cayenne and over a dozen variations for the 911.
I happen to agree with the notion that rear-engine placement is a major distinguishing feature of the 911. What this all points to is a major marketing challenge. Is this challenge significantly different than that which Ferrari went through in the last 20-30 years? It used to be that a "true" Ferrari was powered by a 12-cylinder engine. The evolution of the V-6 and V-8 cylinder mid-engine models (Dino/246/308/328/348/355/360/430) have progressed from initially not even carrying the Ferrari badge, to being equal in performance with the "base" 911, to now being compared only to the "performance" versions of the 911.
I actually think that Porsche as a company is in the midst of a major change, and its products in the future will move more upscale in price/performance while allowing its "affiliates" VW/Audi/Lamborghini to fill in the mass production/luxury/exotic categories. The "failure" of the 924/944/968/928 models was that they required Porsche to spend on development that could not be shared with the 911. Today's Porsche lineup has substantial parts/development sharing either within Porsche (Boxster, Cayman, and 911 together) or with VW (Cayenne, Toureg, and Audi's upcoming SUV). I'm not saying that a future 911 will be mid-engined, but I would also not say "never". Looks like the old Chinese curse "May you live in interesting times" is still at work. Cheers.
Jan 8, 2006 11:35:01 PM
- Butzi
- Co-Pilot
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- Loc: San Francsico, CA , United States
- Posts: 194, Gallery
- Registered on: Aug 23, 2005
- Reply to: Silver Bullet
Re: The Cayman Rocks!!
I don't put much credence into the "Mid-engine 911" rumors floating about. I think any new design that has been "ok'd" will be connected to the Panamera, which will be midengined, and look a little like a Carrera GT and a 911, and perhaps a Cayman, because guess what...it's a Porsche.
Not being a Cayman basher, I think Porsche put together a fun little weekend-mobile. From what I've seen, it's highly capable, with a unique look. Perhaps if I was single, didn't need a back seat, or just felt like spending an extra $60,000+++, I would consider it. For the time being, I'll stick to the 911 until the Panamera comes out (I'll need the added convenience of the two extra doors for the little ones).
Not being a Cayman basher, I think Porsche put together a fun little weekend-mobile. From what I've seen, it's highly capable, with a unique look. Perhaps if I was single, didn't need a back seat, or just felt like spending an extra $60,000+++, I would consider it. For the time being, I'll stick to the 911 until the Panamera comes out (I'll need the added convenience of the two extra doors for the little ones).
Panamera will be mid-engined?????
" .... the Panamera, which will be midengined ... "
My cyrstal ball has a PCM System Fault Error right now so I can't access it (I've called roadside assistance for it) BUT exactly how could a family sedan be mid-engined? Oh wait, I know, the front passengers sit a-h-e-a-d of the engine and the rear seat passengers sit b-e-h-i-n-d it right?
Oh wait, crystal ball just woke up and said the Panamera will be front engined.
My cyrstal ball has a PCM System Fault Error right now so I can't access it (I've called roadside assistance for it) BUT exactly how could a family sedan be mid-engined? Oh wait, I know, the front passengers sit a-h-e-a-d of the engine and the rear seat passengers sit b-e-h-i-n-d it right?
Oh wait, crystal ball just woke up and said the Panamera will be front engined.
Re: The Cayman Rocks!!
Quote:
Flashman said:
I like the cayman, but every time I see a side view of it, cant help but think that if you draw a vertical line through the car where the air scoops are on the side (rear), the back looks so much like an Audi TT its scary. Havent seen one live yet so dont have a strong opinion yet.
I was lucky enough to see the Cayman along time ago next to an Audi TT, a Porsche 997 and a Boxster S. The Cayman is no Audi TT and no Porsche 997. But how boring would it be if Porsche was a single car company?
Re: Panamera will be mid-engined?????
Quote:
Poseur (dweiser) said:
" .... the Panamera, which will be midengined ... "
My cyrstal ball has a PCM System Fault Error right now so I can't access it (I've called roadside assistance for it) BUT exactly how could a family sedan be mid-engined? Oh wait, I know, the front passengers sit a-h-e-a-d of the engine and the rear seat passengers sit b-e-h-i-n-d it right?
Oh wait, crystal ball just woke up and said the Panamera will be front engined.
Re: Panamera will be mid-engined?????
Quote:
Poseur (dweiser) said:
" .... the Panamera, which will be midengined ... "
My cyrstal ball has a PCM System Fault Error right now so I can't access it (I've called roadside assistance for it) BUT exactly how could a family sedan be mid-engined? Oh wait, I know, the front passengers sit a-h-e-a-d of the engine and the rear seat passengers sit b-e-h-i-n-d it right?
Oh wait, crystal ball just woke up and said the Panamera will be front engined.
Ouch!!! You got me on that one!
I think the gist of my response should have been "Can you call a mid-engined Porsche a 911?" I will take your sarcasm with my evening Scotch. Check please!
Re: Panamera will be mid-engined?????
Quote:
(ex)Chef_jmr said:Quote:
Poseur (dweiser) said:
" .... the Panamera, which will be midengined ... "
My cyrstal ball has a PCM System Fault Error right now so I can't access it (I've called roadside assistance for it) BUT exactly how could a family sedan be mid-engined? Oh wait, I know, the front passengers sit a-h-e-a-d of the engine and the rear seat passengers sit b-e-h-i-n-d it right?
Oh wait, crystal ball just woke up and said the Panamera will be front engined.
Ouch!!! You got me on that one!
I think the gist of my response should have been "Can you call a mid-engined Porsche a 911?" I will take your sarcasm with my evening Scotch. Check please!
Your, sir, are a good sport. My toast to you.
Re: Panamera will be mid-engined?????
Quote:
schao said:Quote:
(ex)Chef_jmr said:Quote:
Poseur (dweiser) said:
" .... the Panamera, which will be midengined ... "
My cyrstal ball has a PCM System Fault Error right now so I can't access it (I've called roadside assistance for it) BUT exactly how could a family sedan be mid-engined? Oh wait, I know, the front passengers sit a-h-e-a-d of the engine and the rear seat passengers sit b-e-h-i-n-d it right?
Oh wait, crystal ball just woke up and said the Panamera will be front engined.
Ouch!!! You got me on that one!
I think the gist of my response should have been "Can you call a mid-engined Porsche a 911?" I will take your sarcasm with my evening Scotch. Check please!
Your, sir, are a good sport. My toast to you.
"A man's got to know his limitations." -Harry Callahan, great San Franciscan Philosopher, 1973.
(I can admit being wrong, it doesn't happen often enough to become a problem
Also, have you seen Don's website, I like his humor and wit.)
Will Macallan 25 year do?
Re: The Cayman Rocks!!
Thanks Jeff and thanks for not taking offense at my warped attempt at humor. Woodford Reserve here. Like Humphrey Bogart said when asked what separated him from the other male actors in Hollywood, "they're 2 or 3 drinks behind me".
DITCH the Santas already!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DITCH the Santas already!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jan 10, 2006 3:58:37 AM
- hamilton93
- Junior
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- Loc: North CA, USA
- Posts: 138, Gallery
- Registered on: Jul 18, 2005
- Reply to: MMD
Re: The Cayman Rocks!!
I saw and sat in the Caymen live about a month ago here at a local North Cal. dealer, it does look better in person then the pics. The front end looks like a scaled down 997 and the back is not as ugly or sharp as in the pics.
The vents and bubble butt are still ugly and the interior is a boxer.
The vents and bubble butt are still ugly and the interior is a boxer.
Re: The Cayman Rocks!!
Quote:
Poseur (dweiser) said:
Thanks Jeff and thanks for not taking offense at my warped attempt at humor. Woodford Reserve here. Like Humphrey Bogart said when asked what separated him from the other male actors in Hollywood, "they're 2 or 3 drinks behind me".
DITCH the Santas already!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Love the Woodford Reserve, smooth Bourbon, my best man gave me a couple bottles to ease my pain, "the Horror..."
Just because they'll be gone soon... 
Re: The Cayman Rocks!!
Quote:
SVNSVN said:
I agree- just don't see any attraction the Cayman would have over the Boxster!
First thing is the engine, it revs miles quicker and pulls harder at higher speeds,the Boxster runs out of puff at 100+ mph, second thing is the handling, you feel the extra stiffness and third thing is the big girls blouse image of the Boxster.
Test drive it, you'd know then
I prefer the Cayman over the 997, the 911 is getting fatter and fatter, it's arse is now massive and from the back the rear window is to high and trunk like, the fronts better than the 996, but the 911 used to be a small sports car, now it's more like GT.
Re: The Cayman Rocks!!
Cayman S = the more I see it the more I dislike it. T-shirt of the week sums the car up. Not enough power...front spots still looks a mess...ridiculous price once specced up...rear looks odd with silly centrally mounted pipes...looks like a jeep with the ride height.
Re: The Cayman Rocks!!
Quote:
lavaman23 said:
Cayman S = the more I see it the more I dislike it. T-shirt of the week sums the car up. Not enough power...front spots still looks a mess...ridiculous price once specced up...rear looks odd with silly centrally mounted pipes...looks like a jeep with the ride height.
I just happen to dissagree with all your observations.....except the ride height, but then again all Porsches seem to sit a little high.....including the 997.
When you talk about power what is enough? A new Z06 will waste a 997 so I guess it is underpowered also? I guess the Boxster is way underpowered?
Jan 11, 2006 4:23:25 AM
- charliepug
- Co-Pilot
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- Loc: Australia
- Posts: 227, Gallery
- Registered on: Mar 15, 2005
- Reply to: toplad
Re: The Cayman Rocks!!
Quote:
toplad said:Quote:
SVNSVN said:
I agree- just don't see any attraction the Cayman would have over the Boxster!
First thing is the engine, it revs miles quicker and pulls harder at higher speeds,the Boxster runs out of puff at 100+ mph, second thing is the handling, you feel the extra stiffness and third thing is the big girls blouse image of the Boxster.
Test drive it, you'd know then
I prefer the Cayman over the 997, the 911 is getting fatter and fatter, it's arse is now massive and from the back the rear window is to high and trunk like, the fronts better than the 996, but the 911 used to be a small sports car, now it's more like GT.
That's the reason why I like the 911 - the fat ar**... great view from behind and nice curves
As for being a GT, I can drive it like one, or if I like trash the sh** out of it! Still i feel most will agree it's a sports icon and not a mere "sporty" car 
Jan 11, 2006 7:58:51 AM
- throt
- Rennteam VIP
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- Loc: London , United Kingdom
- Posts: 6078, Gallery
- Registered on: May 9, 2005
- Reply to: charliepug
Re: The Cayman Rocks!!
Quote:
charliepug said:Quote:
toplad said:Quote:
SVNSVN said:
I agree- just don't see any attraction the Cayman would have over the Boxster!
First thing is the engine, it revs miles quicker and pulls harder at higher speeds,the Boxster runs out of puff at 100+ mph, second thing is the handling, you feel the extra stiffness and third thing is the big girls blouse image of the Boxster.
Test drive it, you'd know then
I prefer the Cayman over the 997, the 911 is getting fatter and fatter, it's arse is now massive and from the back the rear window is to high and trunk like, the fronts better than the 996, but the 911 used to be a small sports car, now it's more like GT.
That's the reason why I like the 911 - the fat ar**... great view from behind and nice curves
I think this is why us guys like it so much ,, it resembles a nice curved lady in the d***y position . I am serious..
throt..
Re: The Cayman Rocks!!
Quote:
throt said:Quote:
charliepug said:Quote:
toplad said:Quote:
SVNSVN said:
I agree- just don't see any attraction the Cayman would have over the Boxster!
First thing is the engine, it revs miles quicker and pulls harder at higher speeds,the Boxster runs out of puff at 100+ mph, second thing is the handling, you feel the extra stiffness and third thing is the big girls blouse image of the Boxster.
Test drive it, you'd know then
I prefer the Cayman over the 997, the 911 is getting fatter and fatter, it's arse is now massive and from the back the rear window is to high and trunk like, the fronts better than the 996, but the 911 used to be a small sports car, now it's more like GT.
That's the reason why I like the 911 - the fat ar**... great view from behind and nice curves
I think this is why us guys like it so much ,, it resembles a nice curved lady in the d***y position . I am serious..
throt..
LOL.....and that would make the spoiler opening a......?, but seriously I like both the car and the position...
Re: The Cayman Rocks!!
Quote:
KenH said:
When the 911 was introduced in 1963 there was a lot of resistence to it from existing Porsche 356 owners. One of their concerns was the bland styling of the 911 in comparison to the shapeliness of the 356.
I think the styling of the 997 is a little bland....that's one of the main reasons I went with a Cayman.
Re: Panamera will be mid-engined?????
Quote:
Poseur (dweiser) said:
" .... the Panamera, which will be midengined ... "
My cyrstal ball has a PCM System Fault Error right now so I can't access it (I've called roadside assistance for it) BUT exactly how could a family sedan be mid-engined? Oh wait, I know, the front passengers sit a-h-e-a-d of the engine and the rear seat passengers sit b-e-h-i-n-d it right?
Oh wait, crystal ball just woke up and said the Panamera will be front engined.
I think you will find that the term mid-engined covers any car where the engine sits within the wheelbase i.e between the front and rear axle. This does not restrict it's location to being behind the driver. It can still be in front of the driver but behind the front front wheels and qualify as being "md-engined". This is a real packaging challenge for car designers and would normally require a transversely mounted engine to achieve. A "front engined" car has it's engine either ahead of, or straddling, the front wheels. And therefore by default a rear engine is located beyond the rear axle i.e. 997.
Most people have come to only associate the term mid engined with the practice of putting the engine behind the driver and in front of the rear axle as most sports car designs have utilised this layout. If Porsche chooses to push the front wheels of the Panamera out to the corners and mount the engine behind them to allow more even weight distribution in a sleek 4 seat design then they will be perfectly entitled to call the car mid-engined.
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