Crown

bluelines:

throt:

GT3 a family car, no chance ..

Did your chest hair fall off now? 

Nope,, still mega bushy, buddy    ..

throt

"I Have Done It!".

991 GT3 pick up in October 2014.

throt:

GT3 a family car, no chance ..

that would be the end of it

The various Porsche boards are predicting that the GT2RS will do the Ring faster than the 918 Spyder. Its not everyday that a production car can do the Ring under seven minutes. I wonder what they are smoking?

"A man wrapped up in himself makes for a very small bundle."

Nick:

The various Porsche boards are predicting that the GT2RS will do the Ring faster than the 918 Spyder. Its not everyday that a production car can do the Ring under seven minutes. I wonder what they are smoking?

Nick - It's perfectly reasonable to suspect that the new GT2RS will come close to the 918's time (but likely a little slower).  The pace of improvement in tires, aero, and other important elements has been furious lately.  If not now (breaking 7 minutes), then very soon...

The 4-seater 991.2 GTS is not that far up the 911 ladder and it is already significantly faster than cars like the Carrera GT now.  7:22 on street tires is insane for a heavy car with only 450hp...  The GT2 RS will add ~200hp, lots more torque, much stickier tires, lighter weight, better gearing, much more downforce, much better suspension, etc.  Not hard to see them coming close to 7 min...

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73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

Grant:

Nick:

The various Porsche boards are predicting that the GT2RS will do the Ring faster than the 918 Spyder. Its not everyday that a production car can do the Ring under seven minutes. I wonder what they are smoking?

Nick - It's perfectly reasonable to suspect that the new GT2RS will come close to the 918's time (but likely a little slower).  The pace of improvement in tires, aero, and other important elements has been furious lately.  If not now (breaking 7 minutes), then very soon...

The 4-seater 991.2 GTS is not that far up the 911 ladder and it is already significantly faster than cars like the Carrera GT now.  7:22 on street tires is insane for a heavy car with only 450hp...  The GT2 RS will add ~200hp, lots more torque, much stickier tires, lighter weight, better gearing, much more downforce, much better suspension, etc.  Not hard to see them coming close to 7 min...

Mercedes GT-R is already doing times in the 7:1x's and its way heavier car than a 911.  To reiterate what I've  been saying for years...speed keeps getting better and better, but perhaps not driving pleasure. :)  Under 7:00 will be tough, but it's only a matter of time and not that far off I'm afraid. 

Some of the most iconic cars of my youth could barely clear 8:00.

vantagesc:

Some of the most iconic cars of my youth could barely clear 8:00.

You must be young.  I think the first production Porsche to do that was 1999...Skyline GT-R supposedly in 1995

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73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

nberry:

The various Porsche boards are predicting that the GT2RS will do the Ring faster than the 918 Spyder. Its not everyday that a production car can do the Ring under seven minutes. I wonder what they are smoking?

6:57 is not the best a 918 can do on the Ring back then, they could have gone faster but being the first car under 7 mins  is enough. There was about 10 seconds to be had with the prototype if they tuned it right and really go for it. And now the production car is even faster than the prototype in acceleration. 

I believe someone said that the newly paved Ring is about a second or 2 faster than the original version, so yeah some car will eventually past that 6:57 time. 

Just take a look at the upcoming Huracan Performante. I heard something like "06:52" .... maybe just BS, we will see soon.... So, Porsche has "to move"....

Lamborghini and lightweight = the official bs of all time

An owner of a Gallardo STS weighed his car after replacing his exhaust system with a an aftermarket, it came close to 1,520 kg and this version is supposed to be lighter than 2wd version. This car is also supposed to weigh 30 kg less than LP570-4 SL!

Official dry weight: 1,340 kg (2,954 lb), then you have  3,350 pounds from C&D.

LP570-4 Superleggera by Sport Auto: 1,493 kg

since we have now GTS with Special Pirelli's who can do 7:22 (remember a 458 did 7:40....) I also think the new GT2RS will be at 7 min or lower. However, I think with these new tires these days there should be a new board because even older cars could improve a lot.

BiTurbo:

Lamborghini and lightweight = the official bs of all time

An owner of a Gallardo STS weighed his car after replacing his exhaust system with a an aftermarket, it came close to 1,520 kg and this version is supposed to be lighter than 2wd version. This car is also supposed to weigh 30 kg less than LP570-4 SL!

Official dry weight: 1,340 kg (2,954 lb), then you have  3,350 pounds from C&D.

LP570-4 Superleggera by Sport Auto: 1,493 kg

 

this time it's not about lightweight - it's about active aero.
But maybe also BS, we will see

A little warning for those interested in the new GT2 RS: Remember what happened to many 996 GT2 buyers after they switched from the 996 Turbo to the 996 GT2? Hint: Many crashes. The new 991 GT2 RS certainly is no track only monster but it won't be as forgiving as the current 991 Turbo S. Caution! 

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

nberry:

The various Porsche boards are predicting that the GT2RS will do the Ring faster than the 918 Spyder. Its not everyday that a production car can do the Ring under seven minutes. I wonder what they are smoking?

Odd. Others are saying it'll be slightly more than 7:00

Already undergoing testing around the Nurburgring, the onset of winter has precluded Porsche’s development drivers setting a lap time around the benchmark circuit. However, Porsche’s internal calculations predict a 7 minute 5 second time. Given Porsche’s official figures always quote an achievable, real-world number it’s not unreasonable to expect in the right hands it could well be faster still.

BiTurbo:

Lamborghini and lightweight = the official bs of all time

An owner of a Gallardo STS weighed his car after replacing his exhaust system with a an aftermarket, it came close to 1,520 kg and this version is supposed to be lighter than 2wd version. This car is also supposed to weigh 30 kg less than LP570-4 SL!

Official dry weight: 1,340 kg (2,954 lb), then you have  3,350 pounds from C&D.

LP570-4 Superleggera by Sport Auto: 1,493 kg

 

The Gallardo is a completely different beast and has basically nothing to do with the current Huracan. Even the V10 engine has been completely rebuilt, one reason many Gallardo tuners are actually using Huracan parts to tune their Gallardo V10 engines. The Huracan body/chassis has ZERO to do with the Gallardo, completely new construction and development, incl. that new carbon/aluminium hybrid chassis (space frame).

I doubt that the new Huracan Performante or whatever the name will be is 100 kg or more lighter than the current Huracan but with active aerodynamics, AWS and up to 10% more power, the rumored performance gains for this car are very realistic. Even if the weight stays the same or if it gets only 50 kg lighter.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

650 hp instead of 700 hp because of engine cooling issues...

Are they using the maxed-out 991 Turbo S engine technology or a precursor of 992 turbo engine tech?

Kreso, any insights (keeping you busy today...)?

olli:

650 hp instead of 700 hp because of engine cooling issues...

Haven't heard yet anything but at some point, a couple of weeks ago, 670 hp appeared somehow...30 hp less than the first rumored 700 hp.

Are they using the maxed-out 991 Turbo S engine technology or a precursor of 992 turbo engine tech?

As far as I heard, it is kind of a "hybrid" between new 992 tech and GT tech from current GT cars. The 991 Turbo S engine is maxed out at 600 hp, so... (forget about tuners, different story).

Kreso, any insights (keeping you busy today...)?

This is something I cannot answer. 

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

650 hp number was quoted by Evo Mag today as being confirmed

olli:

650 hp number was quoted by Evo Mag today as being confirmed

650 would be a disappointment...even if power figures don't always really matter.

If they get the weight right, it may work out with 650 only but I think it would be a strategic mistake... 

Depends on how fast this car really is in real world numbers and how much it is going to cost. 

I do not have much to go on, so I can only rely on rumors.

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

Completely agree with you

When is the last time Porsche had a car with a class leading HP rating?

They have always been conservative with the HP rating in their cars, but they are a very reliable rating for what it will put out at minimum. Plus, those Stuttgart horses seems stronger than horses from other places. 

RC:

A little warning for those interested in the new GT2 RS: Remember what happened to many 996 GT2 buyers after they switched from the 996 Turbo to the 996 GT2? Hint: Many crashes. The new 991 GT2 RS certainly is no track only monster but it won't be as forgiving as the current 991 Turbo S. Caution! 

It's not like the Turbo / Turbo S hasn't been wrecked, despite all the safety features added by Porsche + 4WD and PDK .

Stupidity cannot be cured 

Whoopsy:

When is the last time Porsche had a car with a class leading HP rating?

They have always been conservative with the HP rating in their cars, but they are a very reliable rating for what it will put out at minimum. Plus, those Stuttgart horses seems stronger than horses from other places. 

True but do you really think that, from a marketing point of view, it is clever to offer a top of the line performance model with 650 hp, while the competition already has models with 7xx hp figures?

I know a couple (OK, two  but still...) of former 911 Turbo S customers who went for the 488 GTB instead of the latest Turbo S because the power figure was clearly much higher, at a similar price tag (the 488 GTB is really not much more expensive in Germany, depends on options).

If they position the GT2 RS only slightly above the Turbo S and more as a track toy, it could work...if they stick to a base price under 250k EUR. If they are asking more than 250k and market it as a performance monster (not only on the track), it will be difficult to get all the attention with 650 hp only. Depends on the reviews but keep in mind that McLaren will release their first 7xx hp car in a similar(?) price range and the 488 Speciale or even facelift will probably have a 7 in front of the power figure as well.

Porsche needs to be careful, they cannot afford for the GT2 RS not to be a success, especially since it doesn't seem to be a limited edition model (as far as I know).

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

I think the McLaren 720S will be around $300k

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73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

Grant:

I think the McLaren 720S will be around $300k

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73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

 

I am curious if they keep the 650S or replace it with the 720S. If they replace it, they cannot make the 720S much more expensive than the 650S (which is around 235k or so in Germany if I'm not mistaken). So I assume the 720S will have a base price of 250 or 260k EUR maybe if the 650S doesn't stick around. Over 300k would be a bit much in my opinion. The gap between the 570S and the 720S would be too big. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

In US, introduction prices almost 3 years ago:

"The 650S coupe will set you back $265,500, while the 650S Spider starts at $280,225."  675LT is $349,500 here.

We get a much better price for German cars here (fewer USD here than Euros in Germany)...

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73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

RC:

olli:

650 hp instead of 700 hp because of engine cooling issues...

Haven't heard yet anything but at some point, a couple of weeks ago, 670 hp appeared somehow...30 hp less than the first rumored 700 hp.

Are they using the maxed-out 991 Turbo S engine technology or a precursor of 992 turbo engine tech?

As far as I heard, it is kind of a "hybrid" between new 992 tech and GT tech from current GT cars. The 991 Turbo S engine is maxed out at 600 hp, so... (forget about tuners, different story).

Kreso, any insights (keeping you busy today...)?

This is something I cannot answer. 

--

 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

 

Christian,

you answered it all. Thanks.

Thanks, RC and Kreso!

olli:

650 hp instead of 700 hp because of engine cooling issues...

Are they using the maxed-out 991 Turbo S engine technology or a precursor of 992 turbo engine tech?

Kreso, any insights (keeping you busy today...)?

I guessed at 640PS in the ninth post on this thread 

If it has 650PS from 6250rpm to 6750rpm ( which is how Porsche like to run the top of their turbo power bands) then that is about 745NM at 6250rpm so likely 770 odd at peak torque.... This is Porsche power we are talking about here, full fat 

My 7GT2 running a real 660PS/830NM did 0-300kph in 25s so this new beast with its PDK system will be sub 23s IMO, this is faster than all the competition I think ?

997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar

TB993tt:

My 7GT2 running a real 660PS/830NM did 0-300kph in 25s so this new beast with its PDK system will be sub 23s IMO, this is faster than all the competition I think ?

 

 

Personally, I feel 23s would be fast enough - if the track performance is excellent.

MKSGR:

TB993tt:

My 7GT2 running a real 660PS/830NM did 0-300kph in 25s so this new beast with its PDK system will be sub 23s IMO, this is faster than all the competition I think ?

 

 

Personally, I feel 23s would be fast enough - if the track performance is excellent.

The GT2 RS needs to do 0-200 kph in under 9 seconds and 0-300 kph in under 24 seconds. Otherwise, the track performance won't matter. 

I still believe that people will guy this car even if it doesn't deliver the straight line performance I am hoping for (secretly I am rooting for 0-200 kph under 8.5 seconds and 0-300 kph under 22 seconds but I have been disappointed by Porsche before, so... ). With some, rumored, active aerodynamics, this could be achievable. Even with 650-670 hp, depending on the weight.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)